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Is it too early to focus on the 19 draft?

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5 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Yes, but we shouldn’t just draft a QB just because we don’t have a guy who’s playing like a pro bowler. We can’t reach for a guy. If we draft a QB in round 1 or 2, we need to believe he could be the guy long term! We can’t force the issue.

I think taking Grier in the second and letting him sit would be a good idea. 

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1 hour ago, lavar703 said:

I think taking Grier in the second and letting him sit would be a good idea. 

He may not last until the 64th pick in the draft though... lol

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8 hours ago, lavar703 said:

If you don’t have a QB, you don’t have a chance. 

I get that, but the fact of the matter is that any rookie QB is going to be buried behind Smith. Why waste a two years of that QB's contract when you can invest in other just as important positions?

If QB is the call next April, fine. But let's consider other options as well here! :)

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Stidham is falling like a rock. I wouldnt mind throwing a 3rd at him to sit and see if he can develop. I think its poor coaching developing him at Auburn. Along with a couple other positions on the offense. Kinda like our Skins in a way... Maybe exactly like our Skins.

I dont think he will turn into any kind of world beater. But think he or maybe Thorson are likely the best talents we could hope for unless we win less than 6-7 next year due to the position were likely drafting this one. If we could drop back in the 2nd and grab a extra pick later to nab one in the 2nd. Thatd be great too. Cause one of the 2 could very well be there as things look atm.

Otherwise. I just dont see much more than that on the horizon.

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3 hours ago, PARROTHEAD said:

Stidham is falling like a rock. I wouldnt mind throwing a 3rd at him to sit and see if he can develop. I think its poor coaching developing him at Auburn. Along with a couple other positions on the offense. Kinda like our Skins in a way... Maybe exactly like our Skins.

I dont think he will turn into any kind of world beater. But think he or maybe Thorson are likely the best talents we could hope for unless we win less than 6-7 next year due to the position were likely drafting this one. If we could drop back in the 2nd and grab a extra pick later to nab one in the 2nd. Thatd be great too. Cause one of the 2 could very well be there as things look atm.

Otherwise. I just dont see much more than that on the horizon.

I think it’s things other than the coaching that is making him fall as a prospect. Frankly, Auburn has a great coach IMO.

1. They don’t have much talent at the WR or TE position.

2. I think Stidham has been overrated for a few years.

Him, Thornson, McSorely or Rypien as a mid round development guy though, sounds like a good idea.

I know it’s way too early but currently my draft goes as such:

1. Montez Sweat, OLB, Miss St (Yes @MKnight82, I believe they move on from PSmith. While I still believe he’s a good OLB, I don’t think he’s going to be re-signed to a big contract and honestly. I think he’s better as a LOLB where he won’t go up against good to great LTs but we have Kerrigan, and I doubt we cut Kerrigan, re-sign Smith to start at LOLB and take a ROLB in round 1, I think that’s a stretch/far fetched thought.) 

2. Chris Lindstrom, OG, Boston College

3. Devin Bush, LB, Michigan

3. Michael Dieter, C, Wisconsin

5. K.J. Hill, WR, Ohio State

5. Chris Boyd, CB, Texas

6. Trace McSorley, QB, Penn State

7. Gary Jennings, WR, WVU

7. Olive Sagapolu, NT, Wisconsin

Edited by turtle28

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4 hours ago, turtle28 said:

I think it’s things other than the coaching that is making him fall as a prospect. Frankly, Auburn has a great coach IMO.

1. They don’t have much talent at the WR or TE position.

2. I think Stidham has been overrated for a few years.

Him, Thornson, McSorely or Rypien as a mid round development guy though, sounds like a good idea.

I know it’s way too early but currently my draft goes as such:

1. Montez Sweat, OLB, Miss St (Yes @MKnight82, I believe they move on from PSmith. While I still believe he’s a good OLB, I don’t think he’s going to be re-signed to a big contract and honestly. I think he’s better as a LOLB where he won’t go up against good to great LTs but we have Kerrigan, and I doubt we cut Kerrigan, re-sign Smith to start at LOLB and take a ROLB in round 1, I think that’s a stretch/far fetched thought.) 

2. Chris Lindstrom, OG, Boston College

3. Devin Bush, LB, Michigan

3. Michael Dieter, C, Wisconsin

5. K.J. Hill, WR, Ohio State

5. Chris Boyd, CB, Texas

6. Trace McSorley, QB, Penn State

7. Gary Jennings, WR, WVU

7. Olive Sagapolu, NT, Wisconsin

I actually think Preston smith would be better off as a 4-3 DE than playing OLB.

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2 hours ago, MKnight82 said:

I actually think Preston smith would be better off as a 4-3 DE than playing OLB.

I agree with that! He would be better utilized with his hand in the dirt, like he played at Miss St. Not everybody can make that transition and be as productive as their old position. 

Edited by ARTMONK HOF

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7 hours ago, turtle28 said:

I think it’s things other than the coaching that is making him fall as a prospect. Frankly, Auburn has a great coach IMO.

1. They don’t have much talent at the WR or TE position.

2. I think Stidham has been overrated for a few years.

 

Last year it seemed he was moving forward in development. I dont think they have a good enough staff to push him farther. Plus only getting 20 hours a week can hinder any position.

They dont have much talent at those positions. But they recruit pretty well. All games he seems to struggle are against quality DB/LB groups. But dont see the WRs groomed to match them. Some seemed to give up yesterday instead of push through with plays like, "Oh, Looks like Im covered, I give up." on some plays where theyd just stop or slow trot along side some DB without fight. Great coaches arnt putting up with that.

Auburns really weird though. Some games they look like they can compete with anybody, anywhere. And others like theyre lollygagging around without a care and get buried.

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On 11/11/2018 at 8:57 AM, MKnight82 said:

I actually think Preston smith would be better off as a 4-3 DE than playing OLB.

I don’t disagree, but he’s also pretty athletic. He’s more athletic than Kerrigan. Both guys would be better off as LDE’s in 4-3 after they put back on 10-15 pounds they lost to be 3-4OLBs , just like Murphy is better as a LDE in Buffalo too. The point still remains that in college PSmith played mostly LDE and then we drafted him to play Rolb in the pros - which he’s been ok at but it’s not his best spot - he should be playing LOLB like Kerrigan but the issue is we have Kerrigan.

You know honestly, I don’t know if you remember, but I never wanted to daft PSmith bc we had just drafted Murphy and I felt he deserved more than one season to prove he could be a starter. In round 2 of that draft I wanted Landon Collin# (who the Giants traded in front of us to draft), Eddie Goldman, Eric Kendrick’s or Bernard McKinney. 

Edited by turtle28

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14 hours ago, PARROTHEAD said:

Last year it seemed he was moving forward in development. I dont think they have a good enough staff to push him farther. Plus only getting 20 hours a week can hinder any position.

They dont have much talent at those positions. But they recruit pretty well. All games he seems to struggle are against quality DB/LB groups. But dont see the WRs groomed to match them. Some seemed to give up yesterday instead of push through with plays like, "Oh, Looks like Im covered, I give up." on some plays where theyd just stop or slow trot along side some DB without fight. Great coaches arnt putting up with that.

Auburns really weird though. Some games they look like they can compete with anybody, anywhere. And others like theyre lollygagging around without a care and get buried.

I think it’s more the talent. If any QB doesn’t have WR and TE talent to throw to, it’s nearly impossible for them to be good.

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On 11/11/2018 at 4:01 AM, turtle28 said:

I think it’s things other than the coaching that is making him fall as a prospect. Frankly, Auburn has a great coach IMO.

1. They don’t have much talent at the WR or TE position.

2. I think Stidham has been overrated for a few years.

Him, Thornson, McSorely or Rypien as a mid round development guy though, sounds like a good idea.

I know it’s way too early but currently my draft goes as such:

1. Montez Sweat, OLB, Miss St (Yes @MKnight82, I believe they move on from PSmith. While I still believe he’s a good OLB, I don’t think he’s going to be re-signed to a big contract and honestly. I think he’s better as a LOLB where he won’t go up against good to great LTs but we have Kerrigan, and I doubt we cut Kerrigan, re-sign Smith to start at LOLB and take a ROLB in round 1, I think that’s a stretch/far fetched thought.) 

2. Chris Lindstrom, OG, Boston College

3. Devin Bush, LB, Michigan

3. Michael Dieter, C, Wisconsin

5. K.J. Hill, WR, Ohio State

5. Chris Boyd, CB, Texas

6. Trace McSorley, QB, Penn State

7. Gary Jennings, WR, WVU

7. Olive Sagapolu, NT, Wisconsin

I like it Turtle, except of Michael Dieter.  Why get a Center this high up when we have Roullier that I feel has developed to one of the better centers in the league.  I Rather spend it on a Tackle if there is someone there with a talent.  Love Trace McSorley with a 6th pick, that kid may not have all the intangibles but man has heart like no one else I have seen in a while.

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On 11/12/2018 at 5:02 AM, TheGreeK1973 said:

I like it Turtle, except of Michael Dieter.  Why get a Center this high up when we have Roullier that I feel has developed to one of the better centers in the league.  I Rather spend it on a Tackle if there is someone there with a talent.  Love Trace McSorley with a 6th pick, that kid may not have all the intangibles but man has heart like no one else I have seen in a while.

Roullier is not one of the better centers in the league. I don’t think he’s one of the best or worst, he’s somewhere in the middle. He’s average at best, someone doing analysis of our OL - I can’t remember who it was - said he was one of the worst starting centers in the league. Either way, I think we need to draft multiple interior OL - most of us have been calling for multiple mid round picks spent on OL since 2016 - they can both compete with Roullier for the LG & C positions, nothing wrong with having good young depth. If the last two years tells us anything it’s that we certainly need more young interior line depth.

We don’t need to draft an OT, we have solidified starters for the next few to 5, 6, 7, years until TWill decides to retire. We have Nsekhe and most important we drafted a mid round OT to develop - Christian - and it seems to me he has more development to do but so far he’s developing fine.

Edited by turtle28

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1 hour ago, turtle28 said:

Roullier is not one of the better centers in the league. He’s average at best, someone doing analysis of our OL - I can’t remember who it was - said he was one of the worst starting centers in the league. Either way, I think we need to draft multiple interior OL - most of us have been calling for multiple mid round picks spent on OL since 2016 - they can both compete with Roullier for tge LG & C positions, nothing wrong with having good young depth. If the last two years tells us anything it’s that we certainly need more young interior line depth.

We don’t need to draft an OT, we have solidified starters for the next few to 5, 6, 7, years until TWill decides to retire. We have Nsekhe and most important we drafted a mid round OT to develop - Christian - and i5 seems to me he has more development to do but so far he’s developing fine.

Seriously someone said he is average so that must be true?  So when people like Doc and Cooley say he has been terrific (have you seen a bad snap or shotgun or otherwise?  have you see much pressure up the middle?  Have you see how well he pulls on run plays?  And the guy is in his second year.  Lets say I strongly disagree and leave it at that.

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4 hours ago, turtle28 said:

Roullier is not one of the better centers in the league. He’s average at best, someone doing analysis of our OL - I can’t remember who it was - said he was one of the worst starting centers in the league. Either way, I think we need to draft multiple interior OL - most of us have been calling for multiple mid round picks spent on OL since 2016 - they can both compete with Roullier for tge LG & C positions, nothing wrong with having good young depth. If the last two years tells us anything it’s that we certainly need more young interior line depth.

We don’t need to draft an OT, we have solidified starters for the next few to 5, 6, 7, years until TWill decides to retire. We have Nsekhe and most important we drafted a mid round OT to develop - Christian - and i5 seems to me he has more development to do but so far he’s developing fine.

  1. Who is this "someone?" A national source? A beat reporter? PFF? A random schmuck on a fanboard (hi there, fellow schmuck!)? Can you at least point to this analysis? Note: the order listed in those questions is intentional.
  2. Without seeing this analysis, I am going to disagree with it based solely on what my eyes tell me. Is Roullier top tier? No. Is he adequate? Yes. Can the Redskins upgrade from him? Sure. Is it worth spending a third round pick on it? Doubt it, when there are other needs.
  3. While we may differ on his talent, one thing that is undeniable is that Roullier is cheap. Spending a higher pick at a position where you already have a guy on a rookie contract (and one for two more years) is wasting draft value. If you want "good young depth" on the offensive line, then advocate for a backup RG over a starting center, but target that with a Day 3 pick. Don't waste a top 100 pick on a backup. Again.
  4. Obviously, I'm not going to object too loudly to spending a high pick on an interior lineman, but I think you are way overselling the tackle situation here:
    1. Trent Williams is 30 (birthday = July 19th)
      1. Even if he were the epitome of iron man health, expecting him to play for five (much less seven) more years is incredibly optimistic. Most guys are done by age 33 or so.
      2. He is also not the epitome of health (last complete season was 2013):
        • 2014 - 1 missed start
        • 2015 - 2 missed starts
        • 2016 - 4 missed starts
        • 2017 - 6 missed starts
        • 2018 - 2 missed starts [so far]
    2. Morgan Moses is 27 (birthday = March 3rd).
      1. Unlike Williams, Moses did not miss a start last year and hasn't missed one this year.
      2. At the same time, he was playing on the equivalent of duct tape and baling wire last year, and may be in the same situation now.
      3. He's a gamer, no doubt, but there's only so much toll knees and ankles can take before they start falling apart.
    3. Ty Nsekhe is 33 (birthday = October 27th).
      1. Unlike both Williams and Moses, Nsekhe is a free agent after this season.
      2. Unless they sign him cheap for a one year deal, he's likely done as a Redskin.
      3. Even then, I wouldn't count on him making the 2019 roster.
      4. In fact, this could easily be the last season of his career (again, most guys are done by age 33).
    4. Geron Christian Sr. is 22 (birthday = September 10th).
      1. Unlike all of the guys mentioned to this point, he's a rookie and has his career ahead of him.
      2. Unfortunately, based on what at least I have seen to date, he needs a lot of work to get to backup swing quality.
      3. The "good news" is that he could easily get a fair amount of work in the near future due to the M*A*S*H status of the offensive line.
      4. The "bad news" for Christian is that the Redskins felt it necessary to sign Austin Howard off the street instead of going straight to Christian for reps. This implies that even Bill Callahan isn't sure Christian is ready yet (he has only seen playing time in two games due to injuries).
    5. Austin Howard is 31 (birthday = March 22nd).
      1. Prior to signing with Washington, he signed a one year deal with Indianapolis on May 9th (after the draft and minicamps).
      2. The Colts, as bad as their offensive line is, was reportedly looking to trade him two and half months later. When they got no bites, they cut him.
      3. Howard was sitting at home until the Redskins signed him last Monday.
      4. He's depth chum at best.

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On 11/12/2018 at 12:29 PM, Woz said:
  1. Who is this "someone?" A national source? A beat reporter? PFF? A random schmuck on a fanboard (hi there, fellow schmuck!)? Can you at least point to this analysis? Note: the order listed in those questions is intentional.
  2. Without seeing this analysis, I am going to disagree with it based solely on what my eyes tell me. Is Roullier top tier? No. Is he adequate? Yes. Can the Redskins upgrade from him? Sure. Is it worth spending a third round pick on it? Doubt it, when there are other needs.
  3. While we may differ on his talent, one thing that is undeniable is that Roullier is cheap. Spending a higher pick at a position where you already have a guy on a rookie contract (and one for two more years) is wasting draft value. If you want "good young depth" on the offensive line, then advocate for a backup RG over a starting center, but target that with a Day 3 pick. Don't waste a top 100 pick on a backup. Again.
  4. Obviously, I'm not going to object too loudly to spending a high pick on an interior lineman, but I think you are way overselling the tackle situation here:
    1. Trent Williams is 30 (birthday = July 19th)
      1. Even if he were the epitome of iron man health, expecting him to play for five (much less seven) more years is incredibly optimistic. Most guys are done by age 33 or so.
      2. He is also not the epitome of health (last complete season was 2013):
        • 2014 - 1 missed start
        • 2015 - 2 missed starts
        • 2016 - 4 missed starts
        • 2017 - 6 missed starts
        • 2018 - 2 missed starts [so far]
    2. Morgan Moses is 27 (birthday = March 3rd).
      1. Unlike Williams, Moses did not miss a start last year and hasn't missed one this year.
      2. At the same time, he was playing on the equivalent of duct tape and baling wire last year, and may be in the same situation now.
      3. He's a gamer, no doubt, but there's only so much toll knees and ankles can take before they start falling apart.
    3. Ty Nsekhe is 33 (birthday = October 27th).
      1. Unlike both Williams and Moses, Nsekhe is a free agent after this season.
      2. Unless they sign him cheap for a one year deal, he's likely done as a Redskin.
      3. Even then, I wouldn't count on him making the 2019 roster.
      4. In fact, this could easily be the last season of his career (again, most guys are done by age 33).
    4. Geron Christian Sr. is 22 (birthday = September 10th).
      1. Unlike all of the guys mentioned to this point, he's a rookie and has his career ahead of him.
      2. Unfortunately, based on what at least I have seen to date, he needs a lot of work to get to backup swing quality.
      3. The "good news" is that he could easily get a fair amount of work in the near future due to the M*A*S*H status of the offensive line.
      4. The "bad news" for Christian is that the Redskins felt it necessary to sign Austin Howard off the street instead of going straight to Christian for reps. This implies that even Bill Callahan isn't sure Christian is ready yet (he has only seen playing time in two games due to injuries).
    5. Austin Howard is 31 (birthday = March 22nd).
      1. Prior to signing with Washington, he signed a one year deal with Indianapolis on May 9th (after the draft and minicamps).
      2. The Colts, as bad as their offensive line is, was reportedly looking to trade him two and half months later. When they got no bites, they cut him.
      3. Howard was sitting at home until the Redskins signed him last Monday.
      4. He's depth chum at best.

I’ll try to find it, I think it was a PFF guy. I don’t think it was a Joe Schmo.

2. I didn’t say I agreed with the guy. I was just stating I didn’t agree that Roullier was one of the best centers in the NFL either.

 

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