NBA Draft Thread: NO trades 4 to ATL (8/17/35)

[Ozzy]

Zion has been playing great, he is surprisingly quick with the basketball and to me he is a SF all the way, I do not see him as a PF post player at all.  If he can stick at SF that might be his spot at the next level but again College basketball is not exactly super strong in talent, so on a nightly basis he goes up against inferior athletes all the time and is defending by post players which will not always happen in the NBA, and if he is they will have length most college guys do not have. Nassir Little might be the only one he plays all year that could match him with power and athletic ability and Little has been playing a lot better of late, that will be an interesting matchup.  Curious how he would defend and do against his teammate RJ Barrett, who on the court looks longer than Zion does but is not as thick obviously but why would he be when he out weighs him by 85 pounds?  Still that listed weight number is absurd especially when you watch him on the court.  

 

 

But in terms of the NBA, he will see 6-6 to 6-11 guys who can hang with him and defend him.  Some could defend him very well and others could just handle him in terms of strength and size possibly at times.  All or most of them are SF/PF types but yeah it will be a little different when he is in the league.  

 

LeBron James, Kawhi Leonard, Ben Simmons, Paul George, Justise Winslow, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Anthony Davis, Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown, PJ Tucker and to the lesser extent Kevin Durant, Blake Griffin, Aaron Gordon, Trevor Ariza, Nicolas Batum, Rudy Gay, Tobias Harris, Luka Doncic, Kyle Kuzma, Kristaps Porzingis, Otto Porter, Gordon Hayward, Marcus Morris DeMarre Carroll, Kevin Knox, OG Anunoby, Taurean Prince, Michael Kidd- Gilchrist, Will Barton, Andre Roberson, Jonathon Simmons, Trey Lyles, Jonathan Isaac, Marvin Williams, Jaren Jackson Jr, etc.

 

So he will look different going up against players who are closer to him as an athlete and who are a lot longer than he is, he is what 6-6 with maybe a 6-8 wingspan if that, he does not come off to me as being super long in terms of reach.  Go up against Kawhi or Paul George and his offensive skills might look a little bit different.  Sure is fun to watch play in college though, just makes guys look ridiculous but same would have been done if LeBron, Kobe, KG etc went to school like I said before.  So that does say something, in terms of super rare explosive athletes there has not been many like this since probably LeBron being the last one.  

 

No doubt he will be the #1 pick.  Sure maybe if he gets with the right team and they play up tempo and he is a little four, he would be hard to guard no doubt but he will not be going to some amazing team either. He is good in space but is not a banger to me, at least not yet but is such an explosive athlete guys just get out of his way in college.  Who knows maybe they will in the NBA as well with more space and freedom to create.  Cleveland probably the best chance to get him but I must say that would be amazing for the NBA if he could go to the Knicks, they could use him and Kristaps in some unique ways not to mention Knox as well.  But clearly hold off on the Hall of Fame type praise on the kid already.  Yes he is more than just a dunker based on how he has played of late, but he needs to improve on that shot and show he can handle against long athletic wing defenders he will see in the NBA.  

 

 

 

 

Hopefully he does not have a weight issue, like when Kemp came back from that Lockout I believe and he was just this huge guy on the Caves when they got back to playing.  No clue how such a freak show athlete would just balloon like that.  Zion seems to be losing weight I feel compared to his high school days which is not a problem, wonder how big he was as a FR in high school.

Still regardless what his listed weight is, if he played against LeBron he would straight up look like a little dude is my guess.  One would think with those measurables he would be literally bigger and thicker than LeBron.  Regardless I really hope he goes to New York and save that freaking franchise, compared to Cleveland getting yet another #1 pick which really would suck.  

 

[NYRaider]

Zion is a 4 at the next level and has a damn good post game. He has looked more comfortable shooting off the bounce since conference play started. He has also looked a lot more comfortable creating for others off the bounce making the right passes after he gets into the lane. He's the perfect small ball 4 in the modern game with his ability to grab a board and push the ball, play as a secondary ball-handler, and ability to switch defensively. 

Watch: 

- The spin at 16 seconds. 

- The drop step at 45 seconds. 

- Defensive switch at 1:54

- Block at 2:23. 

- Block at 2:33. 

- Offensive rebound and finish at 3:05

- Drop step finish over a double team at 3:22. 

- Block at 3:28. 

- Offensive rebound and finish at 3:44

[NYRaider]

2 hours ago, Ozzy said:

So he will look different going up against players who are closer to him as an athlete and who are a lot longer than he is, he is what 6-6 with maybe a 6-8 wingspan if that, he does not come off to me as being super long in terms of reach.  Go up against Kawhi or Paul George and his offensive skills might look a little bit different.  Sure is fun to watch play in college though, just makes guys look ridiculous but same would have been done if LeBron, Kobe, KG etc went to school like I said before.  So that does say something, in terms of super rare explosive athletes there has not been many like this since probably LeBron being the last one.  

 

He's 6'7" with a 6'11" wingspan, he'll be fine at the 4 in the league. The league is trending towards smaller and smaller lineups with 5 guys that can space the floor and switch defensively. There are great athletes in every class but it's very rare you see players with Zion's god-given ability. 

[DirtyDez]

Zion is the anti-Ayton in terms of competitive fire/enthusiasm.  The Suns need him so bad.  We can find a PG somewhere else.

[NYRaider]

3 hours ago, DirtyDez said:

Zion is the anti-Ayton in terms of competitive fire/enthusiasm.  The Suns need him so bad.  We can find a PG somewhere else.

I want to see Ja Morant in Phoenix. He's a DeAaron Fox clone and would really help Booker and Ayton become better. 

[TitanSlim]

I don't know how he'd fit beside Collins but I'd love Zion in ATL. Add Zion plus the Mavs lottery pick to the young core of Young/Collins/Huerter and it could be the beginning of something special.

He and JJJ in Memphis would be a fun pairing too. Could be a lethal duo down the line.

Edited January 29, 2019 by TitanSlim

[Ozzy]

9 hours ago, NYRaider said:

He's 6'7" with a 6'11" wingspan, he'll be fine at the 4 in the league. The league is trending towards smaller and smaller lineups with 5 guys that can space the floor and switch defensively. There are great athletes in every class but it's very rare you see players with Zion's god-given ability. 

I still feel he is closer to 6-6 and I would be surprised to see him have that large of a wingspan but will see. 

 

I do agree he could be a 4 in the league though potentially, especially if you look at other starting PFs in the league I suppose.  Especially in the NBA of today, I just feel he would be better on the perimeter and slashing to the basket but could do that at the 4 as well I guess.  The last five at the bottom are more thick dudes but shorter, but some of those other guys like Grant, Osman, Bridges are just skinny dudes and it still does not matter.  Clearly they are trying to be the Warriors and spread the court but it does not work because you do not have the shooting talent around you to make it work.

Jerami Grant
Thaddeus Young
Cedi Osman
Taj Gibson
Mikal Bridges
Wilson Chandler
DeMarre Carroll
Draymond Green
Paul Millsap
James Johnson
PJ Tucker

 

 

Still if Zion is matched up against some of the guys I said before, I think he could struggle offensively.  Sure in college he makes slow post players look ridiculous and can over power little guards easily.  Does impressive defending on the perimeter though against guards at times and that strength could give him some advantages out there. 
 

 

Two other guys similar in size on Boston, Guerschon Yabusele 6-8 260  and Semi Ojeleye 6-7 241.  Below is Yabusele and again if you stand him and Zion next to each other I do not even think it would be close regardless of the weight listed to who is bigger, Yabusele is a freaking huge dude.  Mind you none can jump like Zion and not even close.

 

Donte DiVincenzo remember last year, awesome athlete super elite player and yeah is not ripping up the NBA because it is just a different level with athletes all over the place.  I assume there will be a similar learning curve for Zion but will see.  

 

 

 

 

Zion is probably the best college dunker since Vince but yeah Vince has him beat all the way and it is not even close, hard to remember what a great athlete can look like in college it has been so long 1995-1998.  But Vince was a limited player in college in terms of ball handling and shooting but turned himself into a good shooter and offensive player in the NBA.  Zion has him beat in terms of being a more well rounded player right now but Vince could throw down like no other.

 

 

 

PS Mac McClung is a interesting prospect, going to need to watch him more looks like a very athletic draw and kick type of PG.

[Danger]

1 hour ago, Ozzy said:

Donte DiVincenzo remember last year, awesome athlete super elite player and yeah is not ripping up the NBA because it is just a different level with athletes all over the place.  I assume there will be a similar learning curve for Zion but will see.  

I'm pretty sure he was never highly regarded for his athleticism. Certainly wasn't "Elite" hell he wasn't even a starter at Nova. He just had the game of his life on the biggest stage imaginable. The Nick Foles effect.

[NYRaider]

3 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Donte DiVincenzo remember last year, awesome athlete super elite player and yeah is not ripping up the NBA because it is just a different level with athletes all over the place.  I assume there will be a similar learning curve for Zion but will see.  

 

I've seen it all, a Zion Williamson / Donte DiVicenzo comparison, amazing. 

[Ozzy]

2 hours ago, NYRaider said:

I've seen it all, a Zion Williamson / Donte DiVicenzo comparison, amazing. 

 

 

What? I just commented on the fact that DiVicenzo looks a little different against equal to greater athletes now that he is in the NBA, where did I say he was like Zion Williamson as a prospect?  But sure Zion can make crap college players look like crap, will look differently soon.  But yeah now that you bring it up so nicely, do those players look like they have a 85 pound weight difference between them?  DiVicenzo is very thin especially in college yet is not a huge difference even there in those photos, sadly angles on photos can be deceptive but still.

 

 

4 hours ago, Danger said:

I'm pretty sure he was never highly regarded for his athleticism. Certainly wasn't "Elite" hell he wasn't even a starter at Nova. He just had the game of his life on the biggest stage imaginable. The Nick Foles effect.

So having a 42" vertical is not impressive elite athletic ability?  Maybe not for standard NBA players but in college that is flat our ridiculous.  The guy is a very good athlete, sure benefited from playing great in the big moments last year but to me he was drafted on his athletic ability and potential not on his pure basketball skills.  

[TitanSlim]

Zion was matched up against a legit NBA wing prospect in DeAndre Hunter who has the physical makeup and profile of a number of NBA players Zion will go against(6'8" 222 with a 7'2" wingspan). He was too strong for him at times and blew by him a number of times. 

There's a difference between good/great athletes vs. a freak, once a decade type athlete. In recent drafts, we've seen a number of athletic wings/bigs(Wiggins/J.Jackson/Bagley just to name a few) We haven't seen a guy this big, athletic with plus ball handling skill since maybe Blake Griffin and before that, LeBron(and no I am NOT saying he'll be the next LeBron).

[NYRaider]

1 hour ago, Ozzy said:

What? I just commented on the fact that DiVicenzo looks a little different against equal to greater athletes now that he is in the NBA, where did I say he was like Zion Williamson as a prospect?  But sure Zion can make crap college players look like crap, will look differently soon.  But yeah now that you bring it up so nicely, do those players look like they have a 85 pound weight difference between them?  DiVicenzo is very thin especially in college yet is not a huge difference even there in those photos, sadly angles on photos can be deceptive but still. 

 

DiVicenzo was a role player in college that played well in the tournament so he got overdrafted. DiVicenzo has a great vertical leap, but he's definitely not an elite athlete by any stretch. Grayson Allen had a 40.5" max vertical and is not a great athlete whatsoever. There's more to being an elite athlete than being able to jump high. The most impressive thing about Zion isn't his ability to jump high, it's his ability to move side-to-side with such fluidity at his size. DiVicenzo averaged 1.7 ppg as a freshman at Villanova and came off the bench as a junior and was their 4th or 5th best player. Did you expect him to have a huge impact as a rookie? The struggles of a 6'4" 190 guard that was a role player in college has no relation to Zion Williamson, lmao. 

Edited January 29, 2019 by NYRaider

[11sanchez11]

Jarrett Culver or Nick Alexander-Walker?

 

[Ozzy]

2 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

DiVicenzo was a role player in college that played well in the tournament so he got overdrafted. DiVicenzo has a great vertical leap, but he's definitely not an elite athlete by any stretch. Grayson Allen had a 40.5" max vertical and is not a great athlete whatsoever. There's more to being an elite athlete than being able to jump high. The most impressive thing about Zion isn't his ability to jump high, it's his ability to move side-to-side with such fluidity at his size. DiVicenzo averaged 1.7 ppg as a freshman at Villanova and came off the bench as a junior and was their 4th or 5th best player. Did you expect him to have a huge impact as a rookie? The struggles of a 6'4" 190 guard that was a role player in college has no relation to Zion Williamson, lmao. 

Miles Bridges is another not exactly ripping it up in the NBA as of yet and he was a decent well put together athlete obviously coming out.  Sure no one expected him to do great or DiVicenzo.  But to say there is no transition period for prospects where oh s$*%t I am not the best athlete on the court anymore, well then maybe you are being a little naive.  But wait I said Mac McClung in that other post also, that means I am comparing him exactly one on one to Zion Williamson, go.

 

Oh and yeah DiVicenzo was drafted because of his ball handling ability or something else?  Sure call him not a great athlete all you want but to me that is why he was drafted where he was.  And yeah Grayson Allen was over drafted as well and yes that was because of his athletic ability arguably also, sure his moxie some might have liked and his shooting as well. 

 

So side to side movement is the measure of being a great athlete?  Then why was Grayson Allen was #1 in lane agility at the combine over everyone?  So yeah it is not only a side to side thing, but yeah I agree Grayson is not a super great athlete but based on your side to side definition he would be #1 right?  Zhaire Smith is another fine athlete who was "overdrafted" because he was a great athlete, yeah it is the NBA draft that happens all of the time.  Hopefully he can get back healthy and on the court, he could do some things.

 

 

37 minutes ago, TitanSlim said:

Zion was matched up against a legit NBA wing prospect in DeAndre Hunter who has the physical makeup and profile of a number of NBA players Zion will go against(6'8" 222 with a 7'2" wingspan). He was too strong for him at times and blew by him a number of times. 

There's a difference between good/great athletes vs. a freak, once a decade type athlete. In recent drafts, we've seen a number of athletic wings/bigs(Wiggins/J.Jackson/Bagley just to name a few) We haven't seen a guy this big, athletic with plus ball handling skill since maybe Blake Griffin and before that, LeBron(and no I am NOT saying he'll be the next LeBron).

I agree, but honestly they were not matched up against each other that often I felt.  He went up against Salt a lot and others.  And to me Hunter I would not say is an elite level athlete or player, good but not really sure he is all that great down the road, will see.  And again to me the only player he will arguably go up against that is close to him athletically would be Nassir Little all season.  I would like to see him go up against Tennessee and Grant Williams and more importantly Admiral Schofield.  Schofield is a freaking house and maybe could give him some problems, will see if it can happen.  Wish when they played Gonzaga he was put against Clarke more often and not Hachimura but that happened and happens a lot.  He is guarded by a center depending on who else is on the court for Duke and yeah that is clearly going to be hell to deal with.  That will not be the case as easily in the NBA unless he goes to a great team which will clearly not happen.  

 

 

[NYRaider]

1 hour ago, Ozzy said:

Miles Bridges is another not exactly ripping it up in the NBA as of yet and he was a decent well put together athlete obviously coming out.  Sure no one expected him to do great or DiVicenzo.  But to say there is no transition period for prospects where oh s$*%t I am not the best athlete on the court anymore, well then maybe you are being a little naive.  But wait I said Mac McClung in that other post also, that means I am comparing him exactly one on one to Zion Williamson, go.

 

Zion will be one of the 5 or 10 most athletic players in the league from the first day he steps on the court. He's not an elite athlete by college standards, he's an elite athlete period. He's 270 with a 50 inch vertical leap, stop comparing him to mid-first round picks that were multi-year players in college.