POST GAME GB at MIN week 12 (24-17 Loss, 4-6-1)

[PACKRULE]

8 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

I mean, how many times have you seen Rodgers pass up a check down to Jones this year? 

What read is easier than that one?

NFL defenses are going to work to takeaway your first read. Good QBs can advance in their professions. Rodgers gets stuck eyeing his deep route rather than advancing along and finding his check down. 

Totally agree. He took a few last night. Then stops. So is that him or what we re scouting or our scheme.

Is it so ingrained in ARs head to go deep. If MM can’t get him on point then what and he can’t seem to get him on point.

Heck maybe both of the are screwed AR and MM. 

[AlexGreen#20]

1 minute ago, PACKRULE said:

What’s your measuring stick the Browns. Pitt and the 49 rs has hugely successful runs and we should be measure to them. 

Haha no wonder your ignore list is so long.

I hold the Packers to the highest standard and BB and the pats are that so they should be compared. What the hell else are we on here for. Participation awards. 

Basically comparing any franchise to before the White Settlement (92-94) is just impossible. Unrestricted free agency and the salary cap are huge determining factors.

[PACKRULE]

1 minute ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Basically comparing any franchise to before the White Settlement (92-94) is just impossible. Unrestricted free agency and the salary cap are huge determining factors.

Yeah but it’s what it’s all about. I mean if we don’t compare and it’s not worth it why play. Sorry the good well run franchises want success and compare themselves to others.

It’s what allows us to needle the queens fans about SB trophies. Every stat is compared how is AR avg with a comparison. 

[TheOnlyThing]

3 minutes ago, PACKRULE said:

I hold the Packers to the highest standard and BB and the pats are that so they should be compared. What the hell else are we on here for. Participation awards. 

There seems to be a certain subset of Packer fans who are genuinely thrilled by simply making the playoffs/winning NFC North titles.

They reject the notion that getting to and winning Super Bowls as the ultimate arbiter of success.

For these folks, the 2011-2016 seasons were wildly successful.

Here's hoping Gute sets his sights a little higher.

[PACKRULE]

Wonderful chat fellas even you incog. We’re all Packer fans so you’re all friends. Some of us are old and fat thats me so off to bed.

Have a good night gents. Thanks for the BS, fact, banter and knowledge. 

[AlexGreen#20]

2 minutes ago, PACKRULE said:

Totally agree. He took a few last night. Then stops. So is that him or what we re scouting or our scheme.

Is it so ingrained in ARs head to go deep. If MM can’t get him on point then what and he can’t seem to get him on point.

Heck maybe both of the are screwed AR and MM. 

I think what we're discussing here is the crux of that matter.

The offense is struggling for a few reasons, but the biggest one is that Rodgers is playing like an average QB.

Well, why is he playing like an average QB?

1. His ball placement is miles worse than it has been in precious years.

His fundamentals and throwing action are crap. His footwork is awful and his release is sidearm with disturbing frequency. 

I don't know why he's doing this stuff. I don't know if he's not stepping into his throws because he doesn't trust his knee. I don't know if he's throwing sidearm because there's a hitch in his shoulder. I don't know if it's just a matter that fundamentals degrade when they're not drilled regularly and he's just not getting the practice. Whatever it is, his deep balls which used to be perfect are downright bad this year. His ball placement on the intermediate stuff has basically been adequate, but no better. I don't know what you do if you're McCarthy and his injuries are hampering him. All you can do is get your QB Coach to work with him and hope it starts to click.

2. His reads have been downright slow this year.

He's not throwing to anybody but Adams ahead of the break. That's probably a result of having entirely new people except Adams, but still it's something an NFL QB needs to be doing. He can't afford to be late on balls because he doesn't trust guys. He needs to rip it and believe in his teammates.

He's refusing to come off his deep shots. He hates checking down and will eye the deep crosser all the way into a sack. 

What can you do if you're McCarthy here other than review the film and push Rodgers to trust his teammates. It's not like Rodgers can be benched.

+++

This leads us to the discussion, if McCarthy can't exact some level of control on Rodgers, should he be fired? Some will say yes. He's the head of the offense and the head of the team. 

Others will point out, guys with as many years in the system and making as much money as Rodgers shouldn't be having these issues. 

Firing McCarthy because Rodgers is a stubborn arrogant ******* isn't fair.

It's not an easy choice.

[AlexGreen#20]

12 minutes ago, PACKRULE said:

Yeah but it’s what it’s all about. I mean if we don’t compare and it’s not worth it why play. Sorry the good well run franchises want success and compare themselves to others.

It’s what allows us to needle the queens fans about SB trophies. Every stat is compared how is AR avg with a comparison. 

So compare across similar eras. We're basically the Manning Colts or the Brees Saints before Brees' team turned to crap for a few years and was able to reload.

[TransientTexan]

1 hour ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Well ****, if the national media guys who spread their 25 hour work week over 32 teams thinks something is true, it must be the case. 

I don't even think McCarthy getting fired is a bad idea, but the national media is dumb as hell.

Especially since they don't really have a vested interest in telling the truth or getting it correct. They just have a vested interest in telling frustrated readers/viewers what they want to hear and pot-stirring to get more clicks. The last thing they want is for anyone to ever feel satisfied with a situation, no matter if there is a reason to be unsatisfied or not. They must advocate for change, which gives them more new things to write about. It's not like people will ever check back and punish them if they were wrong on something. I mean, I'm sure there were similar types saying the Jags should get rid of Coughlin in the early 00's. Do you see any readers circling back to tell those guys maybe they got it wrong after the fact? Not much. Everybody just moves onto the next thing as time progresses & the media keep making bank. 

[SpeightTheVillain]

1 hour ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

 

2. His reads have been downright slow this year.

He's not throwing to anybody but Adams ahead of the break. That's probably a result of having entirely new people except Adams, but still it's something an NFL QB needs to be doing. He can't afford to be late on balls because he doesn't trust guys. He needs to rip it and believe in his teammates.

He's refusing to come off his deep shots. He hates checking down and will eye the deep crosser all the way into a sack. 

What can you do if you're McCarthy here other than review the film and push Rodgers to trust his teammates. It's not like Rodgers can be benched.

 

I think he is so scared of turnovers to the teams detriment. If you are going to stare down Adams at least throw it. Sure he has only thrown 1 interception but the team is losing. At some point you have to take some chances and let these tall WRs make some plays. 

Mac designs deep shots because he trusts Rodgers to hit them when he gets a one on one but Rodgers simply hasn't been doing it. 

[Pugger]

1 hour ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

What's to back him on?

It's apparent that the relationship between Rodgers and McCarthy is on the rocks.

Rodgers obviously isn't going anywhere. 

It's also not like it's going to be profitable to write the complicated but true article "Aaron Rodgers is an average QB in 2018." Talk about a lot of work to become unpopular with packer fans who want to hear no criticism of him.

Rodgers isn't without fault here and he is playing like an average QB but I don't believe he actually is an average QB.  Sometimes even the best don't always play their best.  Even in this disastrous season we see glimpses of elite play from AR.  But for some reason those plays are few and far between.  It is a coaches job to put his players in the best possible position to be successful but something isn't right at 1265.  If we want to take advantage of having this rare talent at QB before his playing days are done a change is necessary.  A lot of folks are leery of change.   Some here are worried that things could get worse if a change is made.   I don't have anything against McCarthy.  I like him and think he's a good man.  Its been a great run for sure.  But sometimes after a while things get stale.  Moving on might be the best thing for both Mike McCarthy and the Packers going forward.  Both parties are in need of a change in scenery IMO.  I don't see things getting any better if we stay the course.  

[Gopackgonerd]

34 minutes ago, SpeightTheVillain said:

I think he is so scared of turnovers to the teams detriment. If you are going to stare down Adams at least throw it. Sure he has only thrown 1 interception but the team is losing. At some point you have to take some chances and let these tall WRs make some plays. 

Mac designs deep shots because he trusts Rodgers to hit them when he gets a one on one but Rodgers simply hasn't been doing it. 

I think people that point out that he only has 1 interception in the season, but in reality him not throwing more interceptions could be his downfall(as silly as that sounds)  He needs to start throwing 50/50 balls to our receivers, and they all have length! I don't know why he doesn't see all these big receivers that can go up and get the ball. Adams/MVS/EQ/Graham/even when Allison was around he was also had size. He needs to start not letting the trust bull**** go to his head. The guys on the field are the guys that you have to throw to, he needs to take more chances overall, and if it costs like 5-6 more interceptions a year, so what? Obviously he needs to get his accuracy **** figured out but that's also something he needs to change, even if it's not by a lot.

[Leader]

6 hours ago, Pugger said:

I don't see things getting any better if we stay the course.  

Dont stay the course - but if the problem''s the offensive scheme and playcalling - and NOT AR - then bring in a "Josh McDaniels" type to run that offense.

If BB can survive (thrive?) as HC in such a system/set up - why couldnt MM?

There.

I've resolved the problem.

[Mazrimiv]

8 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

This leads us to the discussion, if McCarthy can't exact some level of control on Rodgers, should he be fired? Some will say yes. He's the head of the offense and the head of the team. 

Others will point out, guys with as many years in the system and making as much money as Rodgers shouldn't be having these issues. 

Firing McCarthy because Rodgers is a stubborn arrogant ******* isn't fair.

It's not an easy choice.

Actually, I think it is.  Nothing is going to change on offense while Mac is HC.  Similar to how Mac came in and reigned in an out of control Favre in his later years, a new HC will be needed to reign in Rodgers.  Mac seems to have very little control over Rodgers at this point.  The decline in virtually every aspect of Rodgers' game is by far the biggest single problem facing the team. A new HC may not have any better luck getting Rodgers under control than Mac has had, but I have zero expectation that anything will change while Mac is in GB.

[AlexGreen#20]

1 minute ago, Mazrimiv said:

Actually, I think it is.  Nothing is going to change on offense while Mac is HC.  Similar to how Mac came in and reigned in an out of control Favre in his later years, a new HC will be needed to reign in Rodgers.  Mac seems to have very little control over Rodgers at this point.  The decline in virtually every aspect of Rodgers' game is by far the biggest single problem facing the team. A new HC may not have any better luck getting Rodgers under control than Mac has had, but I have zero expectation Mac anything will change while Mac is in GB.

Rodgers comes back confident and healthy with his own body after a while off. They get an offseason to work those fundamentals back where they need to be and this offense is back and cranking. That's the hope keeping McCarthy. An argument that comes down to "My 30 million dollar a year QB starts playing like a 30 million dollar a year QB and my coach works with this group". Not an unreasonable expectation. 

The offensive playcalling is fine. Sure, you'd like to run more, but we're not running because we're not getting plays and we're not getting plays because we're not converting 3rd downs, and we're not converting 3rd downs because we keep missing open receivers. 

[Leader]

33 minutes ago, Mazrimiv said:

Mac seems to have very little control over Rodgers at this point. 

Okay. Can we actually put some meat on this bone?

I'm not contesting your comment - but I've been reading this sentiment for some time - but failing to see any actual proof of it other than occasional snarky comments from AR and a social media environment that gets a hardon everytime he sneezes.

Can we actually detail and discuss evidence that MM has lost control over AR?