POST GAME GB at MIN week 12 (24-17 Loss, 4-6-1)

[Leader]

18 minutes ago, Norm said:

I actually just generally speaking, I don't like the " could this guy have been any worse" argument. Yes, yes, yes they could and often are. But as humans we tend to remember when replacements were good. There's tons of guys we'd want to sign and trade for that are just as bad as guys we got playing. I still maintain we'd want tons of the guys we trade and want cut, etc, if they were on other teams. HHCD is a big example.

I mentioned Madison earlier - but not in the context that he definitely could or would have helped us this year. Thats a total crapshoot.

Who are all our OL backups or waiting in the wings to become backups?

Spriggs, Murphy, Light, Patrick.....maybe Madison......and whats on the PS?

[skibrett15]

9 minutes ago, PACKRULE said:

Good call on the scripts. 

this has been generally true against seattle and miami, possibly NE.

 

First half scoring has been hugely improved.  Passing game as a whole -- not just rodgers are out of sorts in the later stages of a game.  I'm beginning to think that these rookies are hurting the flow a LOT more than we notice.

[vegas492]

32 minutes ago, PACKRULE said:

Good call on the scripts. 

I've long thought that Mac does well when he can prepare.  

But halftime adjustments he simply does not make.

We can have early success, but when the defense adjusts, it seems like we are dead in the water.  Not sure if that is all on Mac, all on Rodgers, or if they share that criticism.

[Pugger]

1 hour ago, Dubz41 said:

Rodgers has always been bothered by Minnesota's pass rush because it comes right up the middle- our weakest spot.  Been watching Bell the last few weeks specifically and he is not good.  My take on Aaron's yips all stem from the knee injury.  He fought through it and came out and beat the Bears.  Then it seductively went to hell.  He missed tons of practice time.  His mechanics deteriorated out of necessity.  His confidence with his WRs declined on two fronts: Veteran WRs became injured and Rookie WRs did NOT get the valuable practice time they needed to contribute in MM's offense. It was kind of one small thing on top of another until it turned into **** hill.

The OLine was, at best, decent.  But they haven't been at their best for weeks.  The toughest stretch of the schedule is over and we had our ***** handed to us.  Things might get a little better, or they could get a lot better.  Sometimes we play best with our backs to the wall.  For us to get a lot better it pretty much is up to Rodgers.  His play must improve within the confines of ball control.  Our defense is hurt and ball control could be the remedy this team needs and that means Aaron needs to find the rhythm and lose the 'chunk yardage' mentality.

One more thing.....nobody answers my burning question; where the hell is Martinez.  I know he is the boards darling, but is he still stuck on a block?  Where did he go?

Didn't Martinez sprain his ankle pretty good last week against Seattle?

[PACKRULE]

54 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

I've long thought that Mac does well when he can prepare.  

But halftime adjustments he simply does not make.

We can have early success, but when the defense adjusts, it seems like we are dead in the water.  Not sure if that is all on Mac, all on Rodgers, or if they share that criticism.

Agreed on was on my phone when i responded to AG's post which as usual was well posted. He's actually got me to see another side to this whole MM and AR thing. Then comes your post which shows me what I/we've all seen that is Mac not making the right adjustments, not calling plays to meet his players strengths, maybe not having the right staff around him to succeed. Just seems like he'd almost be better with a coach above him at times yet he's a really strong leader of men as he's shown. But his game calling and game sense seems to be at an all time low.

[PACKRULE]

1 hour ago, skibrett15 said:

this has been generally true against seattle and miami, possibly NE.

 

First half scoring has been hugely improved.  Passing game as a whole -- not just rodgers are out of sorts in the later stages of a game.  I'm beginning to think that these rookies are hurting the flow a LOT more than we notice.

Agreed on the Rooks, but also as AG has pointed out AR's been all over the map, top that with playcalling, bad mistakes at the wrong time and well there you have it 4-6-1 instead of 6-4-1 which we could easily be. I read a post online a bit ago and really it seems like it's all things bad. AR, MM, luck and curse this year. Every factor has played into it the poor play.

[Mr. Fussnputz]

3 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

You would have been more comfortable with Madison than with Bell/McCray?

Huh?

The Packers played the guard spots absolutely right. They went cheap. You can't pay low impact positions big money. 

Rodgers needs to not be a *****.

I don't know if Madison would have been better. But I think he was an attempt to upgrade the position. Rodgers is not a***** whatever that is. No QB can play well with a D-lineman sitting in his lap. For example, look at Cousins versus the Bears, and then one week later, Cousins versus us. Totally different pass rush pressure; totally different performance. If you want the passing game to work, you've got to protect the QB. I don't care what he's getting paid. Give Rodgers an O-line that lets him get comfortable in the pocket again, and he will start playing like the old Rodgers, minus a little for age and injury. Right now he looks more like Matthew Stafford minus the interceptions. You don't make a 30 million dollar investment in a guy and then fail to give him the tools he needs to do his job. Would you send your infantry into battle without tank support, and then complain when they get routed that they were paid enough that they should have won the battle without tank support? That's crazy! 

[AlexGreen#20]

5 minutes ago, Mr. Fussnputz said:

I don't know if Madison would have been better. But I think he was an attempt to upgrade the position. Rodgers is not a***** whatever that is. No QB can play well with a D-lineman sitting in his lap. For example, look at Cousins versus the Bears, and then one week later, Cousins versus us. Totally different pass rush pressure; totally different performance. If you want the passing game to work, you've got to protect the QB. I don't care what he's getting paid. Give Rodgers an O-line that lets him get comfortable in the pocket again, and he will start playing like the old Rodgers, minus a little for age and injury. Right now he looks more like Matthew Stafford minus the interceptions. You don't make a 30 million dollar investment in a guy and then fail to give him the tools he needs to do his job. Would you send your infantry into battle without tank support, and then complain when they get routed that they were paid enough that they should have won the battle without tank support? That's crazy! 

There's only so much money available to construct a roster. 

When you pay somebody 30 million dollars every year, you expect that he's going to be able to make up for some less than perfect pieces surrounding him. 

Part of playing Quarterback in the NFL is dealing with pressure. Every quarterback does it. There are 100 quarterbacks in the league capable of looking great when not pressured.  I don't expect Rodgers to consistently make great throws when pressured. I expect him to dump the ball off. I expect him to throw it away rather than taking a sack. 

I do expect him to consistently complete passes when the line gets him good protection and someone is open. Claiming that he can't do that because of the offensive line (on plays where there isn't pressure) is just freaking bizarre.

This line has been an average unit. Not great, not terrible. What else does he need to function? Rodgers freaking leads the team in sack responsibility.

[Mr. Fussnputz]

15 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

There's only so much money available to construct a roster. 

When you pay somebody 30 million dollars every year, you expect that he's going to be able to make up for some less than perfect pieces surrounding him. 

Part of playing Quarterback in the NFL is dealing with pressure. Every quarterback does it. There are 100 quarterbacks in the league capable of looking great when not pressured.  I don't expect Rodgers to consistently make great throws when pressured. I expect him to dump the ball off. I expect him to throw it away rather than taking a sack. 

I do expect him to consistently complete passes when the line gets him good protection and someone is open. Claiming that he can't do that because of the offensive line (on plays where there isn't pressure) is just freaking bizarre.

This line has been an average unit. Not great, not terrible. What else does he need to function? Rodgers freaking leads the team in sack responsibility.

That's where we disagree. Don't we lead the league in 3rd down sacks? Let's say 1/3 of our passing game problems is on Rodgers, a 1/3 on the rookie WRs, and a 1/3 on the O-line. The rookie WRs won't be rookies next year, but at the minimum right guard needs an upgrade. I would look to do that in the draft. I think that's a cheap and reasonable way to look for improvement in the passing game and get Rodgers going again. There are other concerns I've listed, but this is an easy one.

[Mr. Fussnputz]

Here's another way of thinking about it. An offensive line is like a dam. You can have a strong, well built dam along from shore to shore, but if there's a gaping hole in the middle of it, you got trouble. The average strength of the dam may be good, but average doesn't count. Only the hole counts in how well the dam performs.

[incognito_man]

GBs offensive line currently ranks 3rd in run blocking and 21st in pass blocking. But pass blocking does not account for sacks that were faulted to the QB

[Norm]

3 hours ago, Leader said:

I mentioned Madison earlier - but not in the context that he definitely could or would have helped us this year. Thats a total crapshoot.

Who are all our OL backups or waiting in the wings to become backups?

Spriggs, Murphy, Light, Patrick.....maybe Madison......and whats on the PS?

Pankey and some dude I don't know. 

[Norm]

3 hours ago, PACKRULE said:

Good call on the scripts. 

Every "script" is written by Goodell. Every play, every game, every season. All this arguing is meaningless guys lol

[Keg Man]

1 hour ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

There's only so much money available to construct a roster. 

When you pay somebody 30 million dollars every year, you expect that he's going to be able to make up for some less than perfect pieces surrounding him. 

Part of playing Quarterback in the NFL is dealing with pressure. Every quarterback does it. There are 100 quarterbacks in the league capable of looking great when not pressured.  I don't expect Rodgers to consistently make great throws when pressured. I expect him to dump the ball off. I expect him to throw it away rather than taking a sack. 

I do expect him to consistently complete passes when the line gets him good protection and someone is open. Claiming that he can't do that because of the offensive line (on plays where there isn't pressure) is just freaking bizarre.

This line has been an average unit. Not great, not terrible. What else does he need to function? Rodgers freaking leads the team in sack responsibility.

I agree Rodgers is the lead cause to why he is getting beat up.

Phillip Rivers can't move to get a cup of coffee.  He gets the ball out before a blitz can get to him on a short quick route.  Lets his receivers run for extra yards.  Then when he gets the defense on its heels he goes deep.  Brady does same.  Brees does the same.  The young guns are doing the same.  It keeps offenses on the field and rests defenses.  And, because the ball is out before the defense can get to the quarterback it prevents sacks and wears the defense out from trying to get to a quarterback they can't get too.

Does it work?  Look at the second half of the Bears game.  Rodgers did the above on 1 freakin' leg against the vaunted Bears defense.

For god's sake right now, teams are blitzing us to the beejeezus because they know Rodgers won't dump it off and they know they can get to him.

Why oh why the Brain Trust - McCarthy, Rodgers, Philbin and others responsible for the offense - won't swap their tactics that haven't changed since the McCarthy era started for something as simple as what worked in the Bears game is beyond me.

Offensive line banged up.  Quarterback hobbled - I still think he's not 100% because he hardly ever steps into throws which is probably why he's as accurate as me - sucky.  Young wide receivers.  Let's keep running the long developing stuff and stuff that requires the receivers and QB to be on the same page to improvise.  Let's not run a simpler quick slant, quick out, flare out, screen that will help the line, help the receivers and help our quarterback.  This is a coaching problem.  

As far as McCarthy's offense being stale and predictable.  Their were articles written at least 4 years ago describing how the league had figured out the Packer's offense in 2012 or earlier.  Thus it is only spectacular play by our guys to get open or make a play, and it's been that way for a long time.  

[TransientTexan]

1 hour ago, Mr. Fussnputz said:

I don't know if Madison would have been better. But I think he was an attempt to upgrade the position. Rodgers is not a***** whatever that is. No QB can play well with a D-lineman sitting in his lap. For example, look at Cousins versus the Bears, and then one week later, Cousins versus us. Totally different pass rush pressure; totally different performance. If you want the passing game to work, you've got to protect the QB. I don't care what he's getting paid. Give Rodgers an O-line that lets him get comfortable in the pocket again, and he will start playing like the old Rodgers, minus a little for age and injury. Right now he looks more like Matthew Stafford minus the interceptions. You don't make a 30 million dollar investment in a guy and then fail to give him the tools he needs to do his job. Would you send your infantry into battle without tank support, and then complain when they get routed that they were paid enough that they should have won the battle without tank support? That's crazy! 

Plenty of NFL qb’s have a worse OL. Currently GB has a top-2 LT, top-10 RT, and a top-2 C. Rodgers should be able to make that work. Every OL has some weak links. As a whole, they’ve been comforably above average this year considering the strength of defenses they’ve had to face. Rodgers holds the ball longer than 80% of QB’s. Every pass play by any QB on any team will result in DL in the QB’s lap if he waits long enough to pull the trigger.