Prime JJ Watt or Aaron Donald?

[jjab360]

14 hours ago, jrry32 said:

Watt played a different position in the scheme. Donald plays as a 3-Tech.

Also worth pointing out that Donald would have 17.5 sacks, but the NFL stole one from him before they overruled their moronic roughing the passer changes. And last I saw, Donald is doubled on like 70% of his snaps.

And lost another one last week on an offsetting penalties play

[jrry32]

6 hours ago, ET80 said:

At the height of his career, Watt played 3 Tech as well. Played some 5 tech once Romeo Crennell got here, but it was mostly 3 tech.

In Wade's scheme? No. Watt played snaps inside, but he wasn't playing there anywhere close to every down like Donald. If you'd like proof:

http://www.espn.com/blog/houston-texans/post/_/id/8581/the-many-places-j-j-watt-lines-up

[rob_shadows]

1 hour ago, showtime said:

Is Watt in his prime right now or no?

Everyone assumed his prime was over because of the injuries but he's come back this year and is putting up another all-pro caliber year so who knows?

Let's also not forget Watt is only 2 years older than Donald and is 29... So it's not like he's an old man out there.

Edited December 4, 2018 by rob_shadows

[Soko]

8 hours ago, jrry32 said:

There are, especially with Wade scheming.

How do you figure? It’s not like a 0 or a 1, the 3 is designated to the best pass rusher for a reason.

It has him matched outside the guard and typically a tackle doesn’t have an opportunity to help because there’s an edge rusher (I know Donald gets doubled often). Watt in a 5 tech has to not only 2-gap but the guard/TE has more of an opportunity to double.

 

 

[evilflamingo]

It's Watt and I don't think it's as close as some posters are trying to argue. Watt impacted the game in so many ways, from his pass rush, his ability to swat down passes at the line and his ability against the run. In his best years his tackle total is twice that of Donald while PDs are about 10x and as several posters have mentioned, this years' Rams defense hasn't been impressive. 

I also find it quite funny that out of the posters that have disclosed their vote, Watt leads with 10 to Donald's 2, yet the poll shows something quite different, LOL 

[jrry32]

50 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

How do you figure? It’s not like a 0 or a 1, the 3 is designated to the best pass rusher for a reason.

It has him matched outside the guard and typically a tackle doesn’t have an opportunity to help because there’s an edge rusher (I know Donald gets doubled often). Watt in a 5 tech has to not only 2-gap but the guard/TE has more of an opportunity to double.

 

 

Watt didn't two-gap as a 5-tech in Wade's scheme. He played like a traditional 4-3 base end. It's easier to double a 3-Tech than a 5-Tech. And when you double the three, it's an OG/C double instead of an OT/TE double or OT/HB double. You just slide the protection Donald's way.

Plus, Wade has generally in the past run games upfront or blitzed to get his top rusher more one on ones. He hasn't done that a lot this year. He's just letting Donald attack double teams because Donald keeps beating them.

[Calvert28]

4 hours ago, showtime said:

The thing about this question to me is... We've already seen prime JJ Watt.  Watt's prime has came and went.  Aaron Donald is having his best season currently, so how are we sure this is even his peak? 

Watt was robbed in his peak with injury. No we never saw it

 

[Calvert28]

16 hours ago, rocky_rams said:

That’s what most people forget about is that hes double teamed 70% of the time. 

Love to know where you got this stat from. Highest I've seen from these guys from people who do stats all day long is like 46% of the time and that was on Watt.

16 hours ago, rocky_rams said:

Also he’s held on literally almost every play. Yet he still put up these numbers. 

Again would love to see the proof of "literally almost every play."

16 hours ago, rocky_rams said:

Most people go based off hype and stats and don’t watch the games. The crazy thing about it is Watt played in a position where he could get the stats easier.  

You do realize that the purpose of the line in a 3-4 system is to be gap eaters and hole pluggers? The sack stats, and other fancy numbers are supposed to be taken by the LB's in that system. It's actually easier on the 3-tech with a more crowded line and blitz pickups from the LB's cause typically the gameplan is to prioritize which guy can get to your QB the quickest out of those guys which is usually a speedier LB.

16 hours ago, rocky_rams said:

Donald is a defensive tackle putting up these numbers. Then people wonder why we  say our players are good. Like it’s not our fault we have talented players on our team.  They really are that good if you actually watch the games and not just highlights 

In a 3-4 all of those lineman are basically DT's. Sure a guy like Wade can use them creatively. Donald is certainly benefiting from it.

[SmittyBacall]

3 hours ago, jjab360 said:

Are you seriously asking how important a guy who has over half of his team's sacks is to his defense? Considering how many close games we've been in this year and how many game changing turnovers/drive-ending plays/pressures he's made this year, especially late in games, he's pretty darn important. We would almost never get to the QB if it wasn't for him and teams would probably average about 10 more ppg against us. We'd probably be about 7-5 instead of 11-1, more like the Bucs than a SB favorite.

So you seriously think the team would be better off without Goff rather than without Donald?

[rocky_rams]

1 hour ago, Calvert28 said:

Love to know where you got this stat from. Highest I've seen from these guys from people who do stats all day long is like 46% of the time and that was on Watt.

Again would love to see the proof of "literally almost every play."

You do realize that the purpose of the line in a 3-4 system is to be gap eaters and hole pluggers? The sack stats, and other fancy numbers are supposed to be taken by the LB's in that system. It's actually easier on the 3-tech with a more crowded line and blitz pickups from the LB's cause typically the gameplan is to prioritize which guy can get to your QB the quickest out of those guys which is usually a speedier LB.

In a 3-4 all of those lineman are basically DT's. Sure a guy like Wade can use them creatively. Donald is certainly benefiting from it.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/theramswire.usatoday.com/2018/11/01/nfl-los-angeles-rams-aaron-donald-stat-double-team/amp/

this is where it shows Donald double teamed on 70% of the time. It also shows Watt at 46% of the time as you mentioned 

if you want to see proof of Donald being held just watch every Rams game and pay attention. 

It’s much easier for an OLB or an 4-3 end to get the flashy numbers than a 3-tech DT. If that’s the case then DTs would put up better numbers than OLBs and Ends. 

[jrry32]

2 hours ago, Calvert28 said:

You do realize that the purpose of the line in a 3-4 system is to be gap eaters and hole pluggers? The sack stats, and other fancy numbers are supposed to be taken by the LB's in that system. It's actually easier on the 3-tech with a more crowded line and blitz pickups from the LB's cause typically the gameplan is to prioritize which guy can get to your QB the quickest out of those guys which is usually a speedier LB.

Dude, you're a Cowboys fan. Wade was your HC. You should know how his system works. That's not at all how his system works.

[El Ramster]

3 hours ago, evilflamingo said:

It's Watt and I don't think it's as close as some posters are trying to argue. Watt impacted the game in so many ways, from his pass rush, his ability to swat down passes at the line and his ability against the run. In his best years his tackle total is twice that of Donald while PDs are about 10x and as several posters have mentioned, this years' Rams defense hasn't been impressive. 

I also find it quite funny that out of the posters that have disclosed their vote, Watt leads with 10 to Donald's 2, yet the poll shows something quite different, LOL 

There’s no one who gets more pressures than Donald! Watt included. He’s breaking his own record he set last year despite missing 2 games. BS I watch the tape narratives. 

[Buckweath]

I'll be honest. I have no doubt that about half of Donald's votes are from Rams fans and the might be some recency bias but Donald has more votes than I thought he would. 

I have no horse in this battle but Watt to me was an absolute animal. He would ruin an offense way more than Donald who is playing for arguably a below average unit.

[ET80]

7 hours ago, jrry32 said:

In Wade's scheme? No. Watt played snaps inside, but he wasn't playing there anywhere close to every down like Donald. If you'd like proof:

http://www.espn.com/blog/houston-texans/post/_/id/8581/the-many-places-j-j-watt-lines-up

This doesn't really tell me anything. Ganguli states Watt lined up as an LDE (which is a 3-tech in a 3-4). 

[jrry32]

3 minutes ago, ET80 said:

This doesn't really tell me anything. Ganguli states Watt lined up as an LDE (which is a 3-tech in a 3-4). 

No, it's not. It's quite clear what it is. NT could be 0/1-Tech. RDT or LDT could be 3/2/1-Tech. LDE or RDE could be 4/5-Tech.