This team needs a 2nd round WR/TE/RB or equivalent FA

[JBURGE]

16 hours ago, vegas492 said:

MVS wise...

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/marquez-valdes-scantling?id=32462018-0002-5602-295b-f22af0b559c5

Interesting stuff.

Weaknesses

• Anchors on hitches and curls rather than working back to the throw
• Hands are small for his size and he suffers from focus drops

[craig]

JBurge, I though some of the following seem to be present issues, too...

• Routes lack sharpness and consistent play speed
• Slow to gather and redirect in space
• Gives away stop routes prematurely
• .....
• Gets deep but his ball skills down the field are lacking

[vegas492]

1 hour ago, St Vince said:

We can get 3 impact pass rushers for less than what the Bears gave Mack. We should be able to get Sheldon Richardson, Graham and Barrett for under 24 million and still have around 20 million to fill smaller holes and maybe still make a run after Thomas or Collins who may be cheaper coming off Injuries.

That way we can draft Edge, RT, S, TE in that order. Gives us great flexibility on draft day.

Just imagine what the pass rush could look like with.

Barrett 

Graham 

Draft pick 

Fackrell

Daniel's

Richardson 

Clark.

That's a pretty solid pass rush. And you can still bring back Clay and plug him next to Martinez.

That's a top 10 defense on paper and I could see Gute doing something like this. 2019 is shaping up to be one of the most exciting offseasons to date.

Interesting.  Just for giggles....Let's try this...

Spotrac puts GB at about $40M to spend.  Let's roll with that number.

GB always rolls money, right?  Let's set aside $7M.  $34M to spend.

Graham...Spotrac puts him at 5 years, $79M.  Average salary at 15.8M.  Because of contract structure, let's put him at first year comp around $11M.  19M left.

Barrett...Spotrac puts him at 4 years, $30M.  7.4M average salary.  Let's adjust that down a little for structure.  Say 6M in year one.  13M left.

Richardson.  Spotrac doesn't have a projection on him.  He's making $8M now.  Less or more for next year?  Let's say, 7M cap hit year one.  6M left.

I don't see getting those three and still having $20M to go after someone like Thomas or Collins.

True, GB could release guys to gain more money.  Tramon Williams for one.  Perhaps Perry.  Save a little and move on from Crosby or re-structure.

Debatable whether or not Graham would be worth it.  Perhaps you can forgo him for someone else, or give that money to Earl Thomas.

Agree that GB could land 3 nice free agents.  ..and perhaps find a way to bring back Clay at an appropriate number to be a situational guy as a rusher and insurance at ILB in case of emergency.

Agree that it will be an exciting off-season.

[vegas492]

18 hours ago, vegas492 said:

MVS wise...

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/marquez-valdes-scantling?id=32462018-0002-5602-295b-f22af0b559c5

Interesting stuff.

 

1 hour ago, JBURGE said:

Weaknesses

• Anchors on hitches and curls rather than working back to the throw
• Hands are small for his size and he suffers from focus drops

 

1 hour ago, craig said:

JBurge, I though some of the following seem to be present issues, too...

• Routes lack sharpness and consistent play speed
• Slow to gather and redirect in space
• Gives away stop routes prematurely
• .....
• Gets deep but his ball skills down the field are lacking

Yah, that is why I thought it was an interesting read.  Much of what they said we are currently seeing.  But...there is this quote, that I thought was very interesting, too...

"His issues look coachable to me. You don't know what he was being taught, but he's big and can run so you take that and then just get those routes right." -- Former NFL Pro Bowl receiver

[SSG]

18 hours ago, Scoremore said:

Donald Driver...yep 7th rounder all time leading receiver for the Packers.  Don't totally buy into this argument.  Mark Churmura was a 6th rounder.   I get what you guys are saying but think we are OK at WR for next year.  I would however favor getting young at TE but not before the 3rd round.  OLB, DT, and S with the first 3 picks.  As for the 3 young rookies MVS has been the most impressive.  Not to enamored with EQ's play but he'll improve.  Moore might still be a really good receiver.  Sometimes it takes guys longer to develop.  Even if we burned a high round pick on a WR he's going to need a year to get up to speed anyway.  I'd roll with what we have and focus on other needs.

 

Over the last 19 drafts (not including this year's) the GB has drafted exactly 1 serviceable WR with a pick that was beyond pick 80.  One out of 18 WRs that were selected with a 4th round or later pick (Donald Driver) in the past 20 years.  Meanwhile, picks before 80 is drastically different.  We've drafted 8 such WRs and all but 1 (Terrance Murphy who was lost to a career ending injury his rookie season) turned into serviceable WR.  If we moved that criteria back to first thru third rounders, we'd have 2 that didn't work out at WR, Monty being the second guy.  In year's past we weren't "burning picks" when using that quality investment on a WR.  I remember wanting to throw my remote through my TV the year Jordy Nelson was drafted because we were already loaded at WR (DD, #85 and a sophomore James Jones)...... Well it turns out Ted Thompson was a lot smarter than this dumb solider.  

I'd much rather use an early pick on a DaVante Adams, Jordy Nelson, Randall Cobb, James Jones, Gregg Jennings caliber of player then sit around and wait and see if the uber athletic Jeff Janis, DeANgelpo Yancey, Trevor Davis or Malachi Dupre develop into something serviceable.  

 What we have has been good enough to get our offense to 5 wins this year.  It's been good enough to have 4 entire halves of football with 3 points or less.  It's been good enough to have 8 halves of football with 7 points or less.  Our offense has been terrible this year in large part because the talent we have at pass catcher sucks.  

[AlexGreen#20]

1 hour ago, JBURGE said:

Weaknesses

• Anchors on hitches and curls rather than working back to the throw
• Hands are small for his size and he suffers from focus drops

Can't argue with either of those points

[JBURGE]

7 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

1 hour ago, JBURGE said:

Weaknesses

• Anchors on hitches and curls rather than working back to the throw
• Hands are small for his size and he suffers from focus drops

Can't argue with either of those points

Immediately thought about the should have been pick 6 against Buffalo

[Scoremore]

15 minutes ago, SSG said:

 

Over the last 19 drafts (not including this year's) the GB has drafted exactly 1 serviceable WR with a pick that was beyond pick 80.  One out of 18 WRs that were selected with a 4th round or later pick (Donald Driver) in the past 20 years.  Meanwhile, picks before 80 is drastically different.  We've drafted 8 such WRs and all but 1 (Terrance Murphy who was lost to a career ending injury his rookie season) turned into serviceable WR.  If we moved that criteria back to first thru third rounders, we'd have 2 that didn't work out at WR, Monty being the second guy.  In year's past we weren't "burning picks" when using that quality investment on a WR.  I remember wanting to throw my remote through my TV the year Jordy Nelson was drafted because we were already loaded at WR (DD, #85 and a sophomore James Jones)...... Well it turns out Ted Thompson was a lot smarter than this dumb solider.  

I'd much rather use an early pick on a DaVante Adams, Jordy Nelson, Randall Cobb, James Jones, Gregg Jennings caliber of player then sit around and wait and see if the uber athletic Jeff Janis, DeANgelpo Yancey, Trevor Davis or Malachi Dupre develop into something serviceable.  

 What we have has been good enough to get our offense to 5 wins this year.  It's been good enough to have 4 entire halves of football with 3 points or less.  It's been good enough to have 8 halves of football with 7 points or less.  Our offense has been terrible this year in large part because the talent we have at pass catcher sucks.  

Yah I here you SSG.  Maybe I just have GG glasses.   We have greater team needs than WR at the moment.  S, OLB, DT, TE, and G.  I believe with another year the young rooks will improve.  Going into next year  Adams, Cobb, Allison, MVS, EQ, and Moore.  I am ok with that.  Also assuming we can get Cobb done on a reasonable contract.  Even if we did draft an WR up high it will not help us much next year anyway.  Heck Adams didn't break out until year 3.  Just saying I am ok with our current group.  Now if Gute fills some other needs through FA that would provide us greater flexibility come the draft.  Really as far as the draft goes you want to go BPA.  The strength of this draft is OLB and DT.  Nice for us.

[cannondale]

There has also been a running misconception that we can just keep drafting Pro Bowl offensive lineman in the 4th round. We've had plenty of misses there too. Just like any other position, there's usually a pretty good reason why a guy is drafted higher than another

[SSG]

15 minutes ago, Scoremore said:

Yah I here you SSG.  Maybe I just have GG glasses.   We have greater team needs than WR at the moment.  S, OLB, DT, TE, and G.  I believe with another year the young rooks will improve.  Going into next year  Adams, Cobb, Allison, MVS, EQ, and Moore.  I am ok with that.  Also assuming we can get Cobb done on a reasonable contract.  Even if we did draft an WR up high it will not help us much next year anyway.  Heck Adams didn't break out until year 3.  Just saying I am ok with our current group.  Now if Gute fills some other needs through FA that would provide us greater flexibility come the draft.  Really as far as the draft goes you want to go BPA.  The strength of this draft is OLB and DT.  Nice for us.

I highly doubt Cobb is coming back.  He's looked all but done for damn near 90% of the season.  On top of him no longer being a quality football player he's worth about 1/3 of what he's making this year (a John Brown, Torri Smith, Jermaine Kearse caliber contract).  I don't think we're going to be the ones to again over pay for his previous contract year performance.  

Edited December 14, 2018 by SSG

[St Vince]

39 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

Interesting.  Just for giggles....Let's try this...

Spotrac puts GB at about $40M to spend.  Let's roll with that number.

GB always rolls money, right?  Let's set aside $7M.  $34M to spend.

Graham...Spotrac puts him at 5 years, $79M.  Average salary at 15.8M.  Because of contract structure, let's put him at first year comp around $11M.  19M left.

Barrett...Spotrac puts him at 4 years, $30M.  7.4M average salary.  Let's adjust that down a little for structure.  Say 6M in year one.  13M left.

Richardson.  Spotrac doesn't have a projection on him.  He's making $8M now.  Less or more for next year?  Let's say, 7M cap hit year one.  6M left.

I don't see getting those three and still having $20M to go after someone like Thomas or Collins.

True, GB could release guys to gain more money.  Tramon Williams for one.  Perhaps Perry.  Save a little and move on from Crosby or re-structure.

Debatable whether or not Graham would be worth it.  Perhaps you can forgo him for someone else, or give that money to Earl Thomas.

Agree that GB could land 3 nice free agents.  ..and perhaps find a way to bring back Clay at an appropriate number to be a situational guy as a rusher and insurance at ILB in case of emergency.

Agree that it will be an exciting off-season.

I was actually going off their current salaries for this year. Grahams price should come down due to age.

[Dubz41]

That's why I hope Gute doesn't have a list of needs.  That's the fast track to loserville and the reason TT fell off towards the tail end of his GM career.  Gute really needs to draft talent.  Regardless of position.  I wouldn't be surprised to see a WR in the second round IF he's sliding and provides the unpassable value. ( Metcalf from Mississippi would get my vote) The way the draft looks now?  I want two biggies and an edge early.  TE for me is 3rd and beyond tops.

[Scoremore]

13 minutes ago, Dubz41 said:

That's why I hope Gute doesn't have a list of needs.  That's the fast track to loserville and the reason TT fell off towards the tail end of his GM career.  Gute really needs to draft talent.  Regardless of position.  I wouldn't be surprised to see a WR in the second round IF he's sliding and provides the unpassable value. ( Metcalf from Mississippi would get my vote) The way the draft looks now?  I want two biggies and an edge early.  TE for me is 3rd and beyond tops.

Yes that is exactly correct.  Draft BPA and fill in remaining holes through FA.  

[Scoremore]

28 minutes ago, SSG said:

I highly doubt Cobb is coming back.  He's looked all but done for damn near 90% of the season.  On top of him no longer being a quality football player he's worth about 1/3 of what he's making this year (a John Brown, Torri Smith, Jermaine Kearse caliber contract).  I don't think we're going to be the ones to again over pay for his previous contract year performance.  

Yes he's not worth much.  Don't think he'll get much action in FA.  My hope is we can bring him back on the cheap.  If we can't get him done maybe go after a guy like Golden Tate.  I'd rather go after a veteran WR than draft one.  

[mikemike778]

23 hours ago, SSG said:

This offense was built on EXACTLY that.  Using high end draft capital on the WR position.  At one point we spent 6 top 100 picks on WRs over a 10 year span (06, 07, 08, 11, 14 & 15).  Thompson always made sure to have premier WR talent surrounding the QB.   Missing on Montgomery and ignoring that philosophy (drafting a WR high every 2 or 3 years) as of recently has hurt the position group that was once this team's strength. 

Instead of a spending 1 pick on a high end prospect we're spending 2 or 3 picks on low end, bottom of the draft guys (5 in the last 2 years).  Hopefully it works out and we're not taking #12 for granted in the same way Favre was taken for granted in the early 2000s when he was forced to turn Bill Schroeder into a #1 WR.

Yep and the significant drop off on the Receiver position matches the point in Rodgers career when his mobility is becoming more limited (anyone thinking his knee will be OK next year probably forgets that pretty much every year he is carrying some injury or another) and hence needs the quality receivers around him more than ever.

Its fine playing the draft value game and get lots of draft value picks by obeying the 'only draft QB, LT or Defence early' but that doesn't help you when your offense is a shadow of what it was when you actually invested draft picks on both sides of the ball.

Even if MVS does kick on and become a legit starter that gives or Adams and MVS. Geronimo is fine as depth but he isn't anything like the quality of 3/4 guys we had before. If you sign Cobb, you can't expect him to last the year. There's so much pressure on Adams and he's on his second contract so could decline (like Cobb) or if he gets another concussion he could be in trouble.

You can't be complacent about it, you do need fairly steady investment into the position or the talent at the position will fall off badly as will the performance off he offense. Winning the 'draft value game' might get you nice grades from the analysts but it doesn't help your offense and game aren't decided by whether you got this draft value.