NFC Championship: Rams vs. Saints

[MookieMonstah]

Just now, btfd16 said:

But would you say the Eagles contained the run game? I wouldn't.

Uh, absolutely. They did a great job containing the Saints running game, especially when Cox was in. The Saints, for a huge majority of that game, could do nothing in the run game. They won because the Eagles had no answer for Michael Thomas.

[btfd16]

Just now, MookieMonstah said:

Uh, absolutely. They did a great job containing the Saints running game, especially when Cox was in. The Saints, for a huge majority of that game, could do nothing in the run game. They won because the Eagles had no answer for Michael Thomas.

Fair. You're just a tough sell if 137 and averaging 4.4 is contained.

[MookieMonstah]

Just now, btfd16 said:

Fair. You're just a tough sell if 137 and averaging 4.4 is contained.

Because its silly to look at bulk numbers and not use context. Take out the only good run the Saints had, when I believe Cox was off the field, and that number drops significantly.

I don't think you could ask any reasonable Saints fan in the world if the Saints run game was effective yesterday and get a "yes" answer.

[jrry32]

1 minute ago, MookieMonstah said:

You don't think screens and dump offs to a HB are an extension of the run game? This is a thread about the NFCCG, I said last time the Saints did a good job of containing Gurley. Which they did.

 

You're being intentionally obtuse.

No, I understand football well enough to recognize that when discussing a run offense vs. a run defense, you don't include passing plays.

4 minutes ago, Destructo Spin said:

I included an example from the Saints game yesterday that shows I'm not being inconsistent.

That entire game, my Twitter feed and texts were going off. "Where's Ingram?" "We're not using Ingram!" Then he suddenly breaks off a 36-yarder. That's great, but it doesn't erase the fact that for most of the game, he wasn't doing jack squat.

Okay, I didn't feel that way about Gurley against the Saints. I understood why he wasn't getting carries, but I found him to be effective when he did.

[Destructo Spin]

This is basically an argument of mean average vs. standard deviation. The mathematical argument against mean average is that is doesn't necessarily give one an easily predicted outcome for a typical instance, or show an accurate depiction of said typical instance.

So I guess, take it up with mathematicians, who rarely use mean average because they recognize it's a very flawed tool.

[MookieMonstah]

Just now, jrry32 said:

No, I understand football well enough to recognize that when discussing a run offense vs. a run defense, you don't include passing plays.

Okay, I didn't feel that way about Gurley against the Saints. I understood why he wasn't getting carries, but I found him to be effective when he did.

If you understood football, you'd understand plenty of teams use the screen game and short dump offs as an extension of the run game, but moving on.

I said the Saints contained Gurley, I didn't say they shut him down in the run game.

[MookieMonstah]

1 minute ago, Destructo Spin said:

This is basically an argument of mean average vs. standard deviation. The mathematical argument against mean average is that is doesn't necessarily give one an easily predicted outcome for a typical instance, or show an accurate depiction of said typical instance.

So I guess, take it up with mathematicians, who rarely use mean average because they recognize it's a very flawed tool.

*Mic Drop*

[Destructo Spin]

On the other hand, I am very glad my company calculates overall production by mean average, because I made 438,000 widgets in September and was lazy AF the rest of the year. LOL

[jrry32]

1 minute ago, MookieMonstah said:

If you understood football, you'd understand plenty of teams use the screen game and short dump offs as an extension of the run game, but moving on.

I said the Saints contained Gurley, I didn't say they shut him down in the run game.

Cool. Then, you have nothing to add to our conversation about whether or not the Rams will be able to run on the Saints defense. Glad we can move past that.

[MookieMonstah]

Just now, jrry32 said:

Cool. Then, you have nothing to add to our conversation about whether or not the Rams will be able to run on the Saints defense. Glad we can move past that.

[ronjon1990]

2 hours ago, tyler735 said:

Kamara with 106 yards of offense, 4.5 ypc, 8.8 ypr, and having a 40+ yard touchdown getting called back is far from holding Kamara in check for large chunks. If anyone held Kamara in check, it was Sean Payton who didn't give Kamara a single touch until the Saints 3rd possession.

Ingram had 62 yards on 10 touches. The Saints were trying to force the deep ball in the 1st Quarter, and he barely saw any touches until the 2nd quarter. Hardly an accomplishment to contain him for part of a game.

 

Aren't the Saints the number 2 ranked run defense in the NFL? If I'm not mistaken the Saints have held their opponents to under 17 points in 7 of their last 9 games (One of those 2 games was week 17 when the Saints rested several starters). The Saints have other good run stopping DT's that aren't quite as good as Rankins, but still are hard to beat in the run game. The Rankins loss hurts us most in getting pressure on the QB, but Goff doesn't concern me that much. I'll be more concerned in that regard if we face Mahomes or Brady in the Super Bowl.

And the bulk of those 62 yards came on what, a 35 yarder? Ingram was contained pretty much the entire game. As for Kamara and his 40 yarder getting called back for holding, well, then it wasn't a 40 yarder without holding and becomes a moot point. If a hole is opened up by holdiing, the yards are arguably only a product of the hold, not merely "lost yardage that should have counted". 

2nd ranked run D, first ranked run O. That's kind of a moot point until the game actually gets played. Besides, Dallas had the 5th ranked run D and that didn't do very much for them did it?

 

[NVRamsFan]

1 hour ago, MookieMonstah said:

I mean, I don't see how its not a fair point. The Saints were up 2 scores late in the game and playing conservative to not let up a big passing play so Gurley busted a 24 yard run. Outside of that he was held to one of his worst performances of the season. Its okay to use context when discussing statistics.

As Jerry pointed out he averaged 5 ypc when the game was close and 5ypc in the 2nd half even when we’d closed the gap. If we take out anybody’s biggest run, pass or catch we can change any stat to make it better for ourselves. Hell if we take out our game vs the Chiefs we have a better scoring defense than the Saints. See how fun this game is?

[Destructo Spin]

8 minutes ago, NVRamsFan said:

As Jerry pointed out he averaged 5 ypc when the game was close and 5ypc in the 2nd half even when we’d closed the gap. If we take out anybody’s biggest run, pass or catch we can change any stat to make it better for ourselves. Hell if we take out our game vs the Chiefs we have a better scoring defense than the Saints. See how fun this game is?

Again, this is a terrible false equivalency.

Are you trying to say Gurley had a big impact running the ball against the Saints on Nov. 4? Because the stats say he did. 5 YPC is great.

However, I highly doubt anybody who saw that game is sitting here saying "Gurley had a huge impact in this game and I hope he has another game exactly like that in the second game against the Saints too." If he does the Saints will walk away from that game happy, and more than likely getting ready to go to Atlanta.

[ronjon1990]

1 hour ago, MookieMonstah said:

Uh, absolutely. They did a great job containing the Saints running game, especially when Cox was in. The Saints, for a huge majority of that game, could do nothing in the run game. They won because the Eagles had no answer for Michael Thomas.

Taking away the longest run by Kamara, they held him to 3.7 ypc. Held Ingram to a little over 2 ypc. 

I'd say that's containing the run game for sure. 

[showtime]

I think the Eagles gave up like a 3rd and 16 and a 3rd and 20.  Those are just back breakers.  If you double cover and roll coverage toward Michael Thomas and scheme to limit Kamara, can everyone else on the Saints beat you?  I'm not trying to diss the Saints other receivers and playmakers, but I'm taking my chance at letting Brees throw to those guys over and over again over letting Thomas get 12 catches for nearly 200 yards - that was absurd.