Raiders Defense

[bucksavage1]

1 hour ago, big_palooka said:

I expect a big improvement on defense. Year two of the system and I look for some of the younger guys to round into form. Injuries derailed the defense last year early and often. I feel the depth overall is much better in the secondary and Dline. 

Why I expect a big jump:

Secondary - I look for Hobbs to be healthy and rebound into that CB 1 role. I look for Moehrig to be helped with the addition of Epps allowing him to focus on his role. Shelly/Long should secure the CB2 role and there is a good option at nickel with Hall or Jenkins. 

Dline - I look for Farrel Jr. to step up in the NT spot. Adam Butler could be the other guy to step up. He has the track record and is looking to reestablish his career. Jones looks great and I'll never count a guy with his career out. I think he rebounds. 

LB - I don't like this group. I'll say Deablo steps up as a consistent player. And I think Spillane is at capable of filling Perryman's role as an enforcer.

I don't think they will be world beaters, but move into the middle of the pack as a group. A lot really depends on Hobbs becoming the player we think he can be on the back end. I think that would be the difference between them being status quo or making big jump. If the secondary can't improve with this group, then it's a long year. 

 

 

Well said Great post. I expect the pass rush to be improved which will help the coverage. I see us finishing somewhere in the middle of NFL defense rankings 

[big_palooka]

2 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Meh and imo that’s why we passed on the dt from Georgia because we don’t have a solid locker room with mentors like Philly. 

🤔 I wonder if that is because Philly has drafted well on the Dline for years and developed their own. 

Easier to take a risky player early when it's low risk because you drafted and developed your team well. Again... until the Raiders draft, develop and establish culture this is what to expect.

You're comparing a top 3 league office to the Raiders revolving door. 

[NCOUGHMAN]

2 hours ago, big_palooka said:

🤔 I wonder if that is because Philly has drafted well on the Dline for years and developed their own. 

Easier to take a risky player early when it's low risk because you drafted and developed your team well. Again... until the Raiders draft, develop and establish culture this is what to expect.

You're comparing a top 3 league office to the Raiders revolving door. 

No I’m showing you mentors have value. Guys that earn it like Billings should be kept that’s how you develop a culture. Plus other players see hard work and production is rewarded. Aka doing “good business”

[big_palooka]

1 hour ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

No I’m showing you mentors have value. Guys that earn it like Billings should be kept that’s how you develop a culture. Plus other players see hard work and production is rewarded. Aka doing “good business”

Did he really "earn it". He was just a guy, played his role, made some splash plays. He was rewarded with a 1 year deal in Chicago. He was a stop gap player. They drafted two rookies to be the future at the position. 

What am I missing here? You recently said you want to see young guys get reps to develop.  But now you're advocating keeping JAGs for another year because what?

This feels like a thinly vailed anti-Ziegler narrative to me. 

[NCOUGHMAN]

23 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

Did he really "earn it". He was just a guy, played his role, made some splash plays. He was rewarded with a 1 year deal in Chicago. He was a stop gap player. They drafted two rookies to be the future at the position. 

What am I missing here? You recently said you want to see young guys get reps to develop.  But now you're advocating keeping JAGs for another year because what?

This feels like a thinly vailed anti-Ziegler narrative to me. 

Here you go playing mama bear for ya boy ziegs lol

billings was arguably our best nt last year he earned his spot now if a youngster can upseat him then cool. He held the young dts off the field legitimately.

unlike the chandlers, bars and boldens  who did nothing to earn/keep their spot.
 

rocking your ziegs shades so hard homie you pretending like you can’t see the difference. 

[jimkelly02]

On 7/10/2023 at 12:48 PM, NCOUGHMAN said:

I get it they want things a certain way so they bring in their guys. Put if their guys suck then they gotta keep it real and play other guys. “If” being successful is the object. Seems like being “right” is more the object. 

Your right.  All coaches and Front Offices bring in some level of “their guys”.   It’s one thing if your bringing in Kyle Van Noy/etc but I’m talking about Tashawn Bowser here.  He was a 27/28 year old player who basically is maxed out and isnt a high reward reclamation project.  Whereas Koonce has upside and had produced when given an opportunity.  
 

This is a make or break year for Koonce. I’m really hoping he gets an opportunity because I think he can produce.  He’s got speed and his agility is top tier.  He’s kind of got this label of being a DPR only but he’s an average run defender.

[jimkelly02]

On 7/10/2023 at 7:52 PM, NCOUGHMAN said:

Fair enough still betting a lot on him To be the guy

I’m hoping butler gets a chance he was nice at Arizona st

I like Butler too.  I think he’s got the ability to carve out a career as a core STer and backup LB.  He’s undersized but can cover reasonably well and he’s got very good closing speed.  

[NCOUGHMAN]

Watching this chiefs niners sb and lol kc had the 17th ranked defense 

[jimkelly02]

6 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

No I’m showing you mentors have value. Guys that earn it like Billings should be kept that’s how you develop a culture. Plus other players see hard work and production is rewarded. Aka doing “good business”

Spot on about rewarding hardwork so the other players see that and it develops a positive team culture.  Football is a business and a cut throat one at that, BUT the players absolutely do value genuine relationship with coaches and Front Office personnel when it exists and talk to other players about it.  The last few years it seems like we’d rather pay a FA more then to resign a guy like Billings.

i would have liked to have seen us resign Billings. He played very well and is still relatively young.  He only got 1yr, 2.75M from Chicago.  We gave more to Tillery.  But I’m not livid we didn’t.  Adam Butler could be a similar resurrection project that works out for us.

[MrOaktown_56]

16 hours ago, big_palooka said:

They did draft Burney. Sign of life maybe lol

I actually think burney was one of the better cover guys in the draft. Had some notable picks in college as well. We'll see

[Darbsk]

On 7/11/2023 at 3:58 PM, big_palooka said:

I expect a big improvement on defense. Year two of the system and I look for some of the younger guys to round into form. Injuries derailed the defense last year early and often. I feel the depth overall is much better in the secondary and Dline. 

Why I expect a big jump:

Secondary - I look for Hobbs to be healthy and rebound into that CB 1 role. I look for Moehrig to be helped with the addition of Epps allowing him to focus on his role. Shelly/Long should secure the CB2 role and there is a good option at nickel with Hall or Jenkins. 

Dline - I look for Farrel Jr. to step up in the NT spot. Adam Butler could be the other guy to step up. He has the track record and is looking to reestablish his career. Jones looks great and I'll never count a guy with his career out. I think he rebounds. 

LB - I don't like this group. I'll say Deablo steps up as a consistent player. And I think Spillane is at capable of filling Perryman's role as an enforcer.

I don't think they will be world beaters, but move into the middle of the pack as a group. A lot really depends on Hobbs becoming the player we think he can be on the back end. I think that would be the difference between them being status quo or making big jump. If the secondary can't improve with this group, then it's a long year. 

 

 

Nice post, thanks. I’m not in total agreement but I can see your logic and reasoning. 

Secondary, I generally agree. Hobbs I think rebounds but I’d have just liked a bit less turnover ideally.

DLine I’m much more pessimistic. The young guys were out of their depth last year and a liability. Now, they should improve in year two but it would be a jump for Farrel Jr to be even average so I don’t see him being a strong player just yet. Butler is being touted quite a bit and honestly I don’t know that much about him. I think we are relying a lot on Nicholls here. DE I’m happy with and agree I think Jones bounces back some, though not prime Jones. I think Wilson might be a slow burner and not an instant impact but he has the potential.

LB I agree except I think Perryman is better than Spillane. 

Middle of the pack would have me absolutely delighted and I’d be delighted to be proven wrong. I think it’s reliant on the front 7 though as opposed to the back end. 

 

[big_palooka]

28 minutes ago, Darbsk said:

Middle of the pack would have me absolutely delighted and I’d be delighted to be proven wrong. I think it’s reliant on the front 7 though as opposed to the back end. 

I disagree here. The Raiders secondary ranked 31st last season. Graham's blitz rate was 16th in the league where he's typically top 7. Blitzed 8th most on 2nd downs and dropped to 24th most on 3rd down. Shows he didn't trust the secondary and tried to play more coverage shells. 

You had URFA and guys off the street in that secondary the back half of the year because of injury. I think it's vastly improved which will benefit the front 7. 

 

 

[Darbsk]

26 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

I disagree here. The Raiders secondary ranked 31st last season. Graham's blitz rate was 16th in the league where he's typically top 7. Blitzed 8th most on 2nd downs and dropped to 24th most on 3rd down. Shows he didn't trust the secondary and tried to play more coverage shells. 

You had URFA and guys off the street in that secondary the back half of the year because of injury. I think it's vastly improved which will benefit the front 7. 

 

 

True, however, there is still only so long a DB can cover for m, even a great one and when we’ve only had one pass rushing threat it’s easier to neutralise. We absolutely need the front and back working in harmony, the back half have to cover long enough for the pass rush to get there but also the pass rush has to be better and not just one guy to give the back end a chance. 

I believe the back half of the defence actually has some solid to nice players and crucially depth so I’m not so worried about them holding up their half of the bargain. The interior Dline and LBs are the cogs I fear will let the machine down.

[drfrey13]

1 hour ago, Darbsk said:

Nice post, thanks. I’m not in total agreement but I can see your logic and reasoning. 

Secondary, I generally agree. Hobbs I think rebounds but I’d have just liked a bit less turnover ideally.

DLine I’m much more pessimistic. The young guys were out of their depth last year and a liability. Now, they should improve in year two but it would be a jump for Farrel Jr to be even average so I don’t see him being a strong player just yet. Butler is being touted quite a bit and honestly I don’t know that much about him. I think we are relying a lot on Nicholls here. DE I’m happy with and agree I think Jones bounces back some, though not prime Jones. I think Wilson might be a slow burner and not an instant impact but he has the potential.

LB I agree except I think Perryman is better than Spillane. 

Middle of the pack would have me absolutely delighted and I’d be delighted to be proven wrong. I think it’s reliant on the front 7 though as opposed to the back end. 

 

I have a feeling we will be going into next off-season again talking about how we really need help at DT.

[NCOUGHMAN]

Dare I say the defense died when Al Davis died