🦅🤠 NFC East 🤷‍♂️🆘 | Celebrating the Cowboys' 28 Years of Sadness

[ACO]

12 hours ago, EagleBlueDon said:

I love it how everybody forgets just how bad they were before Dak went down. They were what, a colossal Atlanta choke job from being like 0-5 with him? People have annual amnesia with Dallas it's unreal and truly mind boggling.

Right? Don't get me wrong. Their offense is legit and will always keep them in games but their defense is garbage. Do I think it will be as bad as last year? No. I do think a lot of that was due to that DC and they have upgraded. That said, I don't think it will be a massive leap into being good. They will still be bad. Lol. So that will always be having shoot outs to keep up. Dak might have be comeback player of the year and still have a losing season. 

Personally I think the team that have a great chance to have a good season is actually the Giants. I pick them as the winner right now and then Washington. I feel they have the better overall roosters -- QB issues included. I think Eagles and Cowboys have too many questions.

But we shall see. The NFL always has a surprise or two.

 

[Kiltman]

I think the Giants and Eagles are in the same boat, they need their young QBs to step up. Hurts has a little bit more around him potentially. Both have spotty defenses that should be better. Biggest difference is Hurts is a question mark and Jones has shown some that he maybe can't do this.

I feel like this Cowboys have played this script for years. On paper a nice offense really held to whatever their QB can do. 
If Dak elevates and pushed them past the flaws...Cowboys could be a 12 win team. Just doesn't seem t ever go that way for them.

Don't really get what Washington did. Fitzpatrick can play well but he rarely strings those together.
Just seems like a bad punt. Should've tried to move up for a QB, or trade for assets next year. Hard to picture watching the NFCCG coverage and they are breaking down a matchup that includes Fitz.

 

Seems like it's anyone's game, Dallas on paper with a lead like a lot of times.
As an Eagles fan it's kinda no lose this year...either Hurts shows us something or we have the best arsenal next year to get a QB. Expectations are low.

[Gmen]

24 minutes ago, Kiltman said:

I think the Giants and Eagles are in the same boat, they need their young QBs to step up. Hurts has a little bit more around him potentially. Both have spotty defenses that should be better. Biggest difference is Hurts is a question mark and Jones has shown some that he maybe can't do this.

I bolded the one accurate statement you made in that paragraph.

 

[ACO]

It really is a win/win for the Eagles. You play well and Jalen balls out -- you have three 1st round picks to really build this team next season. If he flops... you have plenty of draft capital to draft the QB. Eagles are in the best position right now. 

Washington really is just a QB away. Fitz is just an air it out kind of player. They have a bunch of burners who will appreciate his kind of deep ball approach to QBing. They just need him to be decent. They is an upgrade from what they had last year.

Daniel Jones will finally have some weapons. He really has no excuse to make a leap this year and he has to do it or he is done. So we shall see. We have seen him do it but he needs to work on them turnovers. Hopefully with Saquon back he won't feel the need to play hero and can slow it down and really read the defense.

Dallas is Dallas. I think we all agree that on paper they are great on offense. It can for sure carry them to a point if this defense can just not be awful. I still don't see it happening.

[Kiltman]

3 minutes ago, Gmen said:

I bolded the one accurate statement you made in that paragraph.

 

Where's the lie?
Has Jones shown enough to make you comfortable he'll make a leap and play better?

Capping out, at best, in the low teens of the league isn't aspirational. Especially with the way that team gets built.

I know you guys had Eli forever...but it is possible to have a QB who's at least pretty good like the whole season. 

 

My non-biased take would be that I'd rather roll the dice on Hurts and his intangibles this year, than piss away one more year expecting Daniel Jones to emerge as anything other than an at his best middle of the league player who's only consistency seems to be making dumb mistakes that push him further down the list.

Hurts very well could be in the same tier, and is probably the safe bet he will be, but worth giving him a year to kick the tires. 

[Broadway Joe]

30 minutes ago, ACO said:

It really is a win/win for the Eagles. You play well and Jalen balls out -- you have three 1st round picks to really build this team next season. If he flops... you have plenty of draft capital to draft the QB. Eagles are in the best position right now. 

Washington really is just a QB away. Fitz is just an air it out kind of player. They have a bunch of burners who will appreciate his kind of deep ball approach to QBing. They just need him to be decent. They is an upgrade from what they had last year.

Daniel Jones will finally have some weapons. He really has no excuse to make a leap this year and he has to do it or he is done. So we shall see. We have seen him do it but he needs to work on them turnovers. Hopefully with Saquon back he won't feel the need to play hero and can slow it down and really read the defense.

Dallas is Dallas. I think we all agree that on paper they are great on offense. It can for sure carry them to a point if this defense can just not be awful. I still don't see it happening.

If he sucks sometimes and it´s good some other? If he´s mediocre? If we don´t really know after one year? 

I think that´s far more likely than him outright balling or sucking and in which way we are screwed and in QB limbo. All the more reason we should´ve gone Fields. 

[ACO]

32 minutes ago, Broadway Joe said:

If he sucks sometimes and it´s good some other? If he´s mediocre? If we don´t really know after one year? 

I think that´s far more likely than him outright balling or sucking and in which way we are screwed and in QB limbo. All the more reason we should´ve gone Fields. 

I think it will likely be somewhere in the middle. Last year teams had no film on him and then once they did we saw how he started to struggle. Having a full offseason with weapons should benefit him a lot. QB limbo is hell but I do think they will be able to evaluate him enough to know if they need to look elsewhere. I do feel he has to completely be trash for them to really walk away from him and I don't think he will be. They can have a bad season yet he still plays well and shows promise. That is always the hope. But if the team is clearly carrying him.... they will start looking into at the incoming QBs.

[Go_Giants]

1 hour ago, Kiltman said:

Where's the lie?
Has Jones shown enough to make you comfortable he'll make a leap and play better?

My non-biased take would be that I'd rather roll the dice on Hurts and his intangibles this year, than piss away one more year expecting Daniel Jones to emerge as anything other than an at his best middle of the league player who's only consistency seems to be making dumb mistakes that push him further down the list.

 

The lie is saying the Giants have a spotty defense, they had a top 10 defense last year, and are going to be better this season.

As for Daniel Jones, I think Daniel Jones can be a good QB when he is not playing behind the 2nd worst offensive line in the NFL. Your take sound extremely biased, Daniel Jones is not costing the Giants big time money, he is only in the third year of his rookie contract. If he was in the third year in the same offense system I could understand some of your criticism. He is not, he had to learn a new offensive system last year with out a real offseason or preseason games. 

The Giants are taking this division, the Eagles will be looking for a new QB next season. They are not in the same boat.

[Gmen]

1 hour ago, Kiltman said:

Where's the lie?
Has Jones shown enough to make you comfortable he'll make a leap and play better?

Capping out, at best, in the low teens of the league isn't aspirational. Especially with the way that team gets built.

I know you guys had Eli forever...but it is possible to have a QB who's at least pretty good like the whole season. 

 

My non-biased take would be that I'd rather roll the dice on Hurts and his intangibles this year, than piss away one more year expecting Daniel Jones to emerge as anything other than an at his best middle of the league player who's only consistency seems to be making dumb mistakes that push him further down the list.

Hurts very well could be in the same tier, and is probably the safe bet he will be, but worth giving him a year to kick the tires. 

You're vastly overrating the Eagles offensive talent, and underrating the Giants.  PFF came out with WR and RB rankings yesterday. 

WR : Giants #11, Eagles #30

RB : Giants #12, Eagles #27

 

Jalen Hurts showed bad accuracy last season.  His completion percentage over expectation (CPOE) was one of the worst in the NFL last year.  I've explored this before, and a rookie QB's CPOE correlates relatively well with his career CPOE.  This means that we can judge how good of a passer a QB is, just from a rookie season.  Obviously there is some degree of error, and some QBs buck the trend (Josh Allen).  But Hurts is not in good historical company.  FWIW, this was the same argument I made for Haskins sucking.

Daniel Jones has a completely different set of issues.  He's an accurate enough passer - CPOE right around league average for both his rookie and sophomore seasons.  His issues have been processing speed and pocket awareness.  These issues have been confounded by the fact that the Giants offensive line has been one of the worst in the league the past two seasons, and his receivers had trouble getting separation (Golden Tate in particular).   But with upgraded weapons and with another year of experience, there is hope.  Still worried about the O-line though.

Edited June 3, 2021 by Gmen

[MKnight82]

If Daniel Jones struggles this year does Dave Gettleman survive to pick the next QB?

[Gmen]

22 minutes ago, Go_Giants said:

The lie is saying the Giants have a spotty defense, they had a top 10 defense last year, and are going to be better this season.

Statistically they were average along with the Eagles.  But the Giants have a better defense on paper after adding Adoree Jackson, Azeez Ojulari, and returning Xavier McKinney.  They've assembled a top 5 secondary on paper, which is the way to do it in today's passing league. 

Since the Eagles lost out on the Adoree Jackson sweepstakes their #2 CB is Avante Maddox, and Darius Slay hasn't exactly play like probowl Darius Slay since he's been with the Eagles.  That's not a secondary I would feel comfortable with.

Edited June 3, 2021 by Gmen

[Go_Giants]

12 minutes ago, Gmen said:

Statistically they were average along with the Eagles.  But the Giants have a better defense on paper after adding Adoree Jackson, Azeez Ojulari, and returning Xavier McKinney.  They've assembled a top 5 secondary on paper, which is the way to do it in today's passing league. 

Since the Eagles lost out on the Adoree Jackson sweepstakes their #2 CB is Avante Maddox, and Darius Slay hasn't exactly play like probowl Darius Slay since he's been with the Eagles.  That's not a secondary I would feel comfortable with.

What stats are you looking at. I am looking at points allowed.

[HTTRDynasty]

8 minutes ago, Go_Giants said:

What stats are you looking at. I am looking at points allowed.

Giants were 19th in total defensive DVOA last season, which is a far better metric than points allowed.

[Gmen]

9 minutes ago, Go_Giants said:

What stats are you looking at. I am looking at points allowed.

I'm partial to expected points added (EPA) as a metric. 

If you want to learn more about it, here is a good resource.

http://insidethepylon.com/football-101/glossary-football-101/2019/10/25/glossary-entry-expected-points-added/

Quote

Expected Points Added (EPA) is a football statistic that seeks to measure the value of individual plays in terms of points. This is done by calculating the Expected Points (EP) of the down, distance, and field position situation at the start of a play and contrasting it with the situation at the end of the play. A three-yard gain on first-and-10 is pretty different than a three-yard gain on third-and-two, something not usually captured in conventional statistics. The Expected Points framework helps translate raw gains into value.

 

Edited June 3, 2021 by Gmen

[Jeezla]

10 minutes ago, Go_Giants said:

What stats are you looking at. I am looking at points allowed.

You played bad teams. You have a top 10 defense for the same reasons the jets do. Giants D doesn't scare anybody. They will get lit up by good teams, but play good vs bad teams, just like every average defense. 

If they play a bunch of bottom 10 offenses, the defense will finish top 10. If they play a bunch of top 10 offenses, they will finish in the bottom 10.

Edited June 3, 2021 by Jeezla