NYRaider Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 1 minute ago, OG_C2X said: Nope, just not a prisoner of the moment. Neither am I. And I'm not going to call Derek Carr elite because he hasn't been when you look at his body of work over the last 2.5 seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OG_C2X Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 Just now, NYRaider said: Neither am I. And I'm not going to call Derek Carr elite because he hasn't been when you look at his body of work over the last 2.5 seasons. Get your eyes checked. I've watched every snap at least twice, most at least 3 times and Derek Carr has looked like an above aver QB for his entire career. He has looked NOTHING SHORT OF ELITE since Gruden has stepped into the building. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totty Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 He's not elite. And NYRaider is blatantly hating the guy. It's somewhere in the middle fellas. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 Just now, Totty said: He's not elite. And NYRaider is blatantly hating the guy. It's somewhere in the middle fellas. How am I blatantly hating? I've said this has been the best year of his career and that he's an above-average quarterback that can thrive with the right team around him... I like Carr and I'm happy to have him as our quarterback moving forward, I just don't think that he's an elite player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totty Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 1 minute ago, NYRaider said: How am I blatantly hating? I've said this has been the best year of his career and that he's an above-average quarterback that can thrive with the right team around him... I like Carr and I'm happy to have him as our quarterback moving forward, I just don't think that he's an elite player. The part where you blamed him for the 10-22 record. We are/were a team in transition. Not all on him at all and last year he actually had a good year. Even in a bad situation. Every QB needs a decent line. He was gifted a premiere one. The last 2.5 season weren't horrible (him specifically) but you seem to focus on it like he was God awful. He hasn't been. The team around him was. Minus a few bright spots. Add talent and he's having the best session of good career? Also, there isn't a QB in the league that would have survived let alone thrived given last year's BS. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNBlackFan Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 52 minutes ago, NYRaider said: You would take Derek Carr over Patrick Mahomes? He's also said Kyler Murray is a similar prospect to Tim Tebow...(even though Murray is playing on the same level or even better than the ELITE Carr this year) So yeah...his QB evaluations are..interesting to say the least 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNBlackFan Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 1 hour ago, OG_C2X said: In a heartbeat. Watson and Jackson too. Flash doesn't do it for me. Mahomes makes some of the worst reads from a QB I have ever broken down. I said he would be a bust coming out, said he set the KC franchise back 8 years, so after last year I spend a lot of time trying to figure out what I missed. What I discovered is no one had an easy job at QB, in the history of the NFL then Mahomes did in 2018, of his 50 TD's, I think I noted less then 7 I would credit to Mahomes making the play. He is better then I projected definitely. And won't become the next VY, RG3, Kaep like I said he would. I think he will stick around. Get hurt and fizzle out after an 8 year career. He is more arrogant of a passer then Favre with a fraction of the talent. He is WILDLY inaccurate. Without Andy Reid Scheming plays getting Kelce and Tyreek wide open, or using Tyreek and Kelce as decoys to Scheme someone else WIDE open. He would have more INT then TDs. @Jakuvious what do u think about this post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 1 hour ago, NYRaider said: I think this has been Carr's best year of his career. He's not a top-flight, elite quarterback though. He's an above-average player that can thrive if he has the right pieces around him. Ok how do you define top flight and elite? He's top 10 in every base and advanced metric. He's top 5 or top 3 in some of them. I think this year he's a borderline top 5 passer (somewhere in the 6-8 range) when you take into account context, his passing weapons, and execution. PFF DVOA EPA would all agree. I would take him over some aforementioned guys in this thread (Dak for example) because he has a lethal arm deep, but he needs to develop the trust in his targets and scheme to go downfield more. And he has. He has turned the corner in the past 4-5 weeks in terms of consistently hitting shots deep and his large uptick in YPA shows it. I think in his 3rd year in Gruden's system, there's no reason to think he can't sustain or exceed his current play. Then the year after that, he would hopefully have had 2+ years with the same personnel on offense and chemistry/trust will continue to develop. Especially because he will continue to learn how to play out of structure and trust his pass catchers to learn his improvisational preferences. I can't think of 1 "elite" qb in the NFL right now who hasn't had skill position continuity. Not saying its the end all be all, or that Carr is elite. He's not. But my overall point stands. It's all a process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 1 hour ago, NYRaider said: Neither am I. And I'm not going to call Derek Carr elite because he hasn't been when you look at his body of work over the last 2.5 seasons. No one is asking you to call him elite. Name 1 qb who would have succeeded with last year's Raiders offense. Elite or otherwise. I'm genuinely curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OG_C2X Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 9 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said: Ok how do you define top flight and elite? He's top 10 in every base and advanced metric. He's top 5 or top 3 in some of them. I think this year he's a borderline top 5 passer (somewhere in the 6-8 range) when you take into account context, his passing weapons, and execution. PFF DVOA EPA would all agree. I would take him over some aforementioned guys in this thread (Dak for example) because he has a lethal arm deep, but he needs to develop the trust in his targets and scheme to go downfield more. And he has. He has turned the corner in the past 4-5 weeks in terms of consistently hitting shots deep and his large uptick in YPA shows it. I think in his 3rd year in Gruden's system, there's no reason to think he can't sustain or exceed his current play. Then the year after that, he would hopefully have had 2+ years with the same personnel on offense and chemistry/trust will continue to develop. Especially because he will continue to learn how to play out of structure and trust his pass catchers to learn his improvisational preferences. I can't think of 1 "elite" qb in the NFL right now who hasn't had skill position continuity. Not saying its the end all be all, or that Carr is elite. He's not. But my overall point stands. It's all a process. I project Carr as a top 3 MVP Candidate the first couple years in Vegas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 35 minutes ago, OG_C2X said: I project Carr as a top 3 MVP Candidate the first couple years in Vegas. I wouldn't go that far, but if you give him a top flight drafted WR and the defense improves, sky's the limit for this team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 1 hour ago, MrOaktown_56 said: No one is asking you to call him elite. Name 1 qb who would have succeeded with last year's Raiders offense. Elite or otherwise. I'm genuinely curious. Kyler Murray. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OG_C2X Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 1 minute ago, NYRaider said: Kyler Murray. Oh good god. Bye... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 1 minute ago, OG_C2X said: Oh good god. Bye... He has been balling with very limited talent around him. Why couldn't he have done the same in our offense last year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 We can’t even give Carr credit without three certain posters calling Carr elite and always starting an argument... he’s not elite. Enjoy his success. He’s earned his ticket to Vegas and has been playing fantastic in Grudens system. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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