I'm trying to understand why we are still mocking edge rushers.

[VegasDan]

The heart wants what the heart wants. If you are convinced Burns is the most amazing Packer prospect no facts,  history or logic is going to stand in your way.

 

And I'm going to continue to hope against hope that we end up with Devin White. Hell, let's trade up to 5 to get him! In my mind he is worth 2 Brian Burnses.

[VegasDan]

Nm

[AlexGreen#20]

20 minutes ago, JaireAlex said:

Pettine had only one great coverage lb. But Lawson?

And you don't seem to grasp what Pettine has explicitly stated repeatedly on the run game. But you know better what he wants that what he says he wants.

Burns was a huge liability in the run game in college. Much like similar guys to Burns. That can work in some schemes. I don't think that is at all what Pettine wants there. Pettine has said so. So. It's really not my opinion vs. anyone. It's just totally ignoring what Pettine explicitly has stated and done and whom they brought in as FAs.

But if Burns is great against the run, I am happy to hear it. I saw the opposite and his coach said they had to hide him in the run game 

I know plenty well that our edge guys are being frequently asked to play a gap over in run defense. Obviously that stresses the hell out of them.

But if you can't teach a 6'5 250 lb Linebacker with Burns' first step, to be able to get into a gap, you shouldn't be coaching in the NFL. 

Burns spent his entire college career being told to pin his ears back and go. That's obviously going to change in the NFL, but it's not like he was incapable of holding the edge when asked to.

Additionally, how frequently are your thinking Burns is going to be playing that 7 tech like Perry rather than the 9 like Fackrell?

[cannondale]

46 minutes ago, JaireAlex said:

Pettine had only one great coverage lb. But Lawson?

And you don't seem to grasp what Pettine has explicitly stated repeatedly on the run game. But you know better what he wants that what he says he wants.

Burns was a huge liability in the run game in college. Much like similar guys to Burns. That can work in some schemes. I don't think that is at all what Pettine wants there. Pettine has said so. So. It's really not my opinion vs. anyone. It's just totally ignoring what Pettine explicitly has stated and done and whom they brought in as FAs.

But if Burns is great against the run, I am happy to hear it. I saw the opposite and his coach said they had to hide him in the run game 

You don't draft Burns to stop a 4th and 1. You don't draft him to drop in coverage either. You draft Burns as another weapon in any one of numerous sub packages. You can also line him up against slower OT's. Who plays Edge when ZSmith is playing on the DL ? I think there are also weights and food and gummy bears at 1265. Also guys who specialize at utilizing both. No pass rushers coming out of college who are worth a damn can hold an NFL Edge year one. They probably don't even know what that means.

[Packerraymond]

1 hour ago, JaireAlex said:

Did you listen to what Pettine is looking for?

I'm open for an argument for Burns. But Pettine specifically says he wants both guys on the edge to be able to play SAM and be able to alternate SAM and rush and then gives all the types he's worked with that he's looking for. And the Smiths fit what he says.

The video helps too with what he's looking for at safety.

Facts are stubborn things. They got the Smiths. He says here that's what he is looking for.

But here folks want a specialty rusher.

I literally just told you yesterday what he wants but you ignore it because it means Burns fits. Pettine's wants one of his 3-4 backers to fit a more traditional 4-3 SAM backer look, he wants a guy he can rush or drop. A guy that he can have at the LOS in his pressure packages and drop out so he can create multiple other looks and rush an ILB, S or CB and drop that EDGE off into a zone or even in the case of someone like Burns, he could probably man up on a TE. 

You keep bringing up the Smith's but you don't even utilitize them right in your posts. Za'darius isn't an EDGE in the pressure package, he's a 3 tech. You think we paid him all that money after his first great year in the NFL and then we're going to change the successful way Baltimore utilized him? Come on. Preston is an EDGE, Z is a 3 tech, Daniels/Clark will rep the other interior spot and right now the other EDGE is Fackrell. Neither Smith is athletic enough to drop, Fackrell isn't either. 

Fact is Burns is exactly what Pettine wants. Pettine's big thing was "looking multiple without the complexity of being multiple front." How do you appear multiple if all you do is add the same body type?? Fact is you're so caught up in the profile of the Smiths' that you think that's all Pettine wants, I think that because we have the Smiths' Pettine will look for something different. That's Burns, that's Sweat (to a lesser extent, but 4.41 you don't ask questions about that), that's Banogu, Walker, Christian Miller, Van Ginkel, etc. I'd be shocked if we drafted another 6'3 270 guy, what's he going to do but backup the Smith's? Great pick utilization.

[Leader]

5 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

I literally just told you yesterday what he wants but you ignore it because it means Burns fits. Pettine's wants one of his 3-4 backers to fit a more traditional 4-3 SAM backer look, he wants a guy he can rush or drop. A guy that he can have at the LOS in his pressure packages and drop out so he can create multiple other looks and rush an ILB, S or CB and drop that EDGE off into a zone or even in the case of someone like Burns, he could probably man up on a TE. 

You keep bringing up the Smith's but you don't even utilitize them right in your posts. Za'darius isn't an EDGE in the pressure package, he's a 3 tech. You think we paid him all that money after his first great year in the NFL and then we're going to change the successful way Baltimore utilized him? Come on. Preston is an EDGE, Z is a 3 tech, Daniels/Clark will rep the other interior spot and right now the other EDGE is Fackrell. Neither Smith is athletic enough to drop, Fackrell isn't either. 

Fact is Burns is exactly what Pettine wants. Pettine's big thing was "looking multiple without the complexity of being multiple front." How do you appear multiple if all you do is add the same body type?? Fact is you're so caught up in the profile of the Smiths' that you think that's all Pettine wants, I think that because we have the Smiths' Pettine will look for something different. That's Burns, that's Sweat (to a lesser extent, but 4.41 you don't ask questions about that), that's Banogu, Walker, Christian Miller, Van Ginkel, etc. I'd be shocked if we drafted another 6'3 270 guy, what's he going to do but backup the Smith's? Great pick utilization.

Thank-you for that.

 

[Packerraymond]

44 minutes ago, JaireAlex said:

Pettine had only one great coverage lb. But Lawson?

And you don't seem to grasp what Pettine has explicitly stated repeatedly on the run game. But you know better what he wants that what he says he wants.

Burns was a huge liability in the run game in college. Much like similar guys to Burns. That can work in some schemes. I don't think that is at all what Pettine wants there. Pettine has said so. So. It's really not my opinion vs. anyone. It's just totally ignoring what Pettine explicitly has stated and done and whom they brought in as FAs.

But if Burns is great against the run, I am happy to hear it. I saw the opposite and his coach said they had to hide him in the run game 

No defensive coordinator builds his roster around a base run package. This isn't 1998. Any unathletic guy with a good base and short area quickness can stop the run. Case in point Jake Ryan, Tyler Lancaster, Antonio Morrison. You don't pay premiums for those players and you don't plot out your defense with them either. 

Any DC will take a league average run defender with elite pass rush potential over a league average rusher with elite run fill potential 100 times out of 100. 

We didn't pay the Smiths' to stop the run either, they're here to hit QBs.

[cannondale]

6-2 Stack Monster. 6-2 Stack Monster. Ready. Break !

If you don't know one of the most legendary defenses every employed, you shouldn't be here.

[VegasDan]

Pumpkin spice cookies. Pumpkin spice cookies. Ready Bake!

Vince Lombardi's favorite. If you dont know the recipe you shouldnt be here either.

[AlexGreen#20]

Here's how we lined up in the first defensive drive against the Lions. 

Notice the difference between how Perry and Matthews are lined up?

You're drafting Burns to be Matthews, not Perry.

[fattlipp]

8 hours ago, rcon14 said:

FWIW the Everette Brown comp is pretty terrible too. He ran a 7.55 3C, a 4.53 shuttle. His only good drill was the 40. Burns is an elite athlete, Brown was quite literally an average one, which you just can't be as a finesse rusher.

But ohhh EB had that Freeney or Dummervill spin move....he was the draft flavor of the month that year, just like Burns is now

[fattlipp]

8 hours ago, JaireAlex said:

I'm looking at the Football's Future write up for prospect Jamal Reynolds. It is the same enthusiasm as for Burns....to a tee. 

 

Ron Wolf's retiring present to GB. You know it has been 18 years. Maybe it is time for Reynold's 2.0

Was referring to Everette brown 

[JaireAlex]

7 hours ago, fattlipp said:

Was referring to Everette brown 

Yeah. I looked that up.

Seems to be a recurrent theme here. I get the love for edge. Just seems it's getting taken to another level of fixation around here 

I'm trying to see how Burns would fit. Seems he'll have the biggest problem holding the edge. But maybe it could work. We'll find out in a couple of weeks if the FO is as obsessed as this board. Certainly it is a league obsession.

But I see them very much following closest in the footsteps of the Ravens now and how they handle it. I believe they hired the Ravens guy as the head of scouts now. That could mark a good change in the only area we draft terribly -- DL and edge. Will be interesting. I also really like being more physical and less finesse (as the Smith Grabs indicate).

Anyways, I looked at the boards comments on Pettine defense, and predraft-- y'all saw what I saw. Pettine heavily emphasizes and puts a premium on CBs and DL by all indictors both past and on the last draft. I welcome the change and new focus

Look forward to the draft and defense, year two. Really seems he can do a lot more than Capers with less. Future is bright imo 

Edit: Pettine spent a long time in Baltimore. We hired one of their guys for scouting. Baltimore does a great job grabbing and restocking olb and even line in later rounds. The twitchy guys (except natural freaks like Peppers) often are injured because they are maxed out and wound too tight, like Clay and Perry. It takes advantage of avoiding the premium on fast and twitchy edges. It's more physical and takes advantage of the league moving towards more athletic, finesse OL. Who doesn't want MORE PHYSICAL on this defense? Just seems a smart move and I've wanted them to follow the Ravens in drafting front seven a long time. This draft has beaucoup edge and DL that can help. Personally I like Joe Jackson because of his grit-- he'll bring it everyday and be great in locker room and make it on the field too imo, just because of heart and want it. It's worth a later pick. Banogu is my other guy. He is just raw talent that showed up and seems very coachable -- longer, bigger frame who hasn't done nothing and shows athleticism on tape. But that's just my preference. There are others.

What it does: takes away the angst on edge and DL picks. Allows us to focus on CB in draft which this FO has always been very very good at drafting anyway. Allows us to grab more offense in the draft going forward.

That just seems the plan and a no brainer. Keep restocking the olb with later picks and use premiums in other areas.

[deathstar]

10 hours ago, Packerraymond said:

. Neither Smith is athletic enough to drop, 

I agree with everything you put, but just wanted to put out Preston Smith is pretty decent in coverage.

[JaireAlex]

8 hours ago, fattlipp said:

But ohhh EB had that Freeney or Dummervill spin move....he was the draft flavor of the month that year, just like Burns is now

Not to worry. SF will take him. Bosa is off their board because ((MAGA)).

Aldon Smith 2.0

The next two weeks I am spending on landing spots for Burns from 2-11. As well as writing letters to 1265 begging them to move up to pick 10 so we can take the greatest Florida State edge in 18 years. Maybe we can throw in a backup QB to Elway and get that trade done.

(By the way, that was not Wolf's pick in 2001. He deferred to Sherman.)