Who do you want at #58?

[matt79511]

2 minutes ago, Runaway Jim said:

Third WR is considered a starter...

Yup. Unless someone like Tillery falls somehow, you’d think Deebo is about the only guy to whom that statement could apply that doesn’t play safety.

[Nextyearfordaboyz]

9 minutes ago, Runaway Jim said:

Third WR is considered a starter...

Sure. That’s why I separated it from from the other positions. But we also signed Randall Cobb, so it’s not clear that a WR would be a walk-in #3.

I do agree though. “Probably” was too strong a description. There’s a good argument that Deebo or another receiver could fit the bill as having enough impact to fit that bill.

[Tony7188]

9 hours ago, Rtnldave said:

All rationally thought out and explained Matt, I would expect nothing less. However, please explain to me why we repeatedly put emphasis on CB and S in every offseason and yet we still cannot cover anyone or advance in the playoffs? 3rd and 20 Rodgers completes a 30 yard pass to set up the winning FG. This is just one example of how many times good QB's and some stinkers find ways to humiliate this team.

It seems with 11 players on the field at any time last year's opinion was "We need Earl Thomas to be a legit SB threat." 

?????? 

You mean to tell me with all the coaching, talent, drafting, FA players etc, we cannot win without this guy. And if that is the case, why didn't we go after him with an all or nothing mentality?

Sorry, I believe this position is overhyped and a waste of our time. We consistantly throw high picks at this position and get beat the same way every year.

Please tell me how the team has put emphasis on the Safety position. They we're signing and drafting corners to wrongly play them at the saftey position for years. The safety position has held this team back for a dozen years.

[Rtnldave]

10 hours ago, matt79511 said:

I wasn’t a fan of giving Thomas that sort of contract and I’m glad we opted out of doing so. That’s a different discussion, though. I don’t get how anyone can look at all the money and picks that teams like NE, NO, and LAR have sunk into their secondary and act like the positions are somehow worthless. They never come off the field! You can’t just put you or me out there. And even in the most dominant outing for your DL, they’re not going to win the war up front more than half the time. Even pressuring the QB on a third of the overall passing snaps over the course of the season is ridiculously high. You have to have a plan for those other 2/3

First off, NE wins because of Brady, period. Last year, when they lost to philly, a back up who couldn't win a starting job on 3 other teams, including Philly, beat the pants off the Patriots secondary. It was also Philly's D lIne that took Brady out to win that game in the end.

The same could be said about Brees. He is the reason they are winning games. Not so much secondary. ANd if it wasn't for the fact that the NFC championship game was fixed for NO to lose, they would have represented much better in the SB.

As for the Rams, is there any question the strength of that defense is the line??? Arron Donald and Suh as the focal points?

I get secondary is important and I was being facetious when I said anyone could play back there. But with all the high picks we have placed on CB and S over the years, to not have a dominant defense or a secondary that doesn't become swiss cheese when a guy like Sean Lee goes out (See LA Rams vs Dallas 2017) also A. Rodgers at Dal 2017, 4th quarter drive, both games the Boys were up 3 scores and choked at the end of the game due to poor secondary defense, is absurd. 

Seems to me the problem is allowing the opposing QB too much time to get comfortable.

[Rtnldave]

4 hours ago, Tony7188 said:

Please tell me how the team has put emphasis on the Safety position. They we're signing and drafting corners to wrongly play them at the saftey position for years. The safety position has held this team back for a dozen years.

See, I don't believe the problem was or is the S position. I see our pass rush, specifically DT, being the biggest problem.

You can go back 2 decades and see in 2000 we took 3 CB's with our first 4 picks. then in 2001 a CB with out 2nd. Then 2002 S Roy Williams with our 1, then 2003 CB Terrance Newman with our 1, then 2006. By that point we went LB, DE, RB with the majority of our early picks, the Parcells years I believe, so no surprise there. 

Then in 2012 we gave up our 2nd to move up 6 spots and grab.....a CB, Mo Claiborne who had 1 semi good year. Then in 2013 we grabbed 2 CB with our 3rd and 4th, not exactly high picks, but secondary nonetheless, then 2015 1st round B. Jones- not sure where to put him, S or CB, which is pretty messed up considering he was a 1st round pick, I mean, you gotta have a plan!

Then 2017 2 more CB's with the 2nd and 3rd picks.

Point is, in all of this we NEVER had a top 10 defense or one that could take over a game. In fact, I seem to remember getting burned by some pretty mediocre QB's.

In drafting with this mindset we haven't accomplished ish!

I have been SCREAMING for a legit DT in the 1st round for 2 decades. The last one I recall was named Maryland out of Miami. I wonder how that worked out?

[flyingmonkey30]

I dunno, in the past five years the only DBs we’ve drafted in the top 3 rounds are Byron, Chido, and Lewis. I don’t think they’re overdrafting at DB. I am with you though on wanting a DT somewhere between rounds 2-4, but I’m still taking a safety if he’s the better player on our board - and the end of the second round looks like a pretty good sweet spot for some safeties

[Matts4313]

11 hours ago, Rtnldave said:

See, I don't believe the problem was or is the S position. I see our pass rush, specifically DT, being the biggest problem.

You can go back 2 decades and see in 2000 we took 3 CB's with our first 4 picks. then in 2001 a CB with out 2nd. Then 2002 S Roy Williams with our 1, then 2003 CB Terrance Newman with our 1, then 2006. By that point we went LB, DE, RB with the majority of our early picks, the Parcells years I believe, so no surprise there. 

Then in 2012 we gave up our 2nd to move up 6 spots and grab.....a CB, Mo Claiborne who had 1 semi good year. Then in 2013 we grabbed 2 CB with our 3rd and 4th, not exactly high picks, but secondary nonetheless, then 2015 1st round B. Jones- not sure where to put him, S or CB, which is pretty messed up considering he was a 1st round pick, I mean, you gotta have a plan!

Then 2017 2 more CB's with the 2nd and 3rd picks.

Point is, in all of this we NEVER had a top 10 defense or one that could take over a game. In fact, I seem to remember getting burned by some pretty mediocre QB's.

In drafting with this mindset we haven't accomplished ish!

I have been SCREAMING for a legit DT in the 1st round for 2 decades. The last one I recall was named Maryland out of Miami. I wonder how that worked out?

well that is false. weve had it multiple times. I am pretty sure we even had the #1 or 2 defense a couple times.

[D82]

Here's a question...are there any guys you'd trade up for (say between 42-50) in order to grab while sacrificing a 3rd (probably gain a 4th or so)? 

[Nextyearfordaboyz]

47 minutes ago, D82 said:

Here's a question...are there any guys you'd trade up for (say between 42-50) in order to grab while sacrificing a 3rd (probably gain a 4th or so)? 

Don’t think there is anyone likely to fall to that range I would trade #90 for. But I would trade a 4th to land the last of those 4 safeties. 

[WizardHawk]

23 minutes ago, Nextyearfordaboyz said:

1 hour ago, D82 said:

Here's a question...are there any guys you'd trade up for (say between 42-50) in order to grab while sacrificing a 3rd (probably gain a 4th or so)? 

Don’t think there is anyone likely to fall to that range I would trade #90 for. But I would trade a 4th to land the last of those 4 safeties. 

Yeah, I don't think I'd want to give up #90, do move up, but for 10-12 spots a 4th should get it done.  

Not sure what everyone uses anymore as a guideline, but this version of TVC seems a little more with the times.

[flyingmonkey30]

1 hour ago, Matts4313 said:

well that is false. weve had it multiple times. I am pretty sure we even had the #1 or 2 defense a couple times.

Yeah wait a minute just last year we had a top 7 defense both by yards allowed and points allowed...

[quiller]

Yeah I am hoping the injury to DLaw was a factor in why the Rams gashed us so bad but the more I been reading all the comments and thinking it through I would love a Russel Maryland clone for the middle of our D that would also really help our LB’s getting from side to side

[DaBoys]

41 minutes ago, quiller said:

Yeah I am hoping the injury to DLaw was a factor in why the Rams gashed us so bad but the more I been reading all the comments and thinking it through I would love a Russel Maryland clone for the middle of our D that would also really help our LB’s getting from side to side

I think it was more our DTs than DLaw. Although he is solid all the way around, he is more of a pass rusher than a run stopper. He played with the injury all year.  

[Tony7188]

2 hours ago, D82 said:

Here's a question...are there any guys you'd trade up for (say between 42-50) in order to grab while sacrificing a 3rd (probably gain a 4th or so)? 

I don't think they should give up the 3rd rounder for anyone. But I think there's two players the team should consider giving up both their 4ths to move up for. Thornhill or Fant. If either one makes it past #47, Dallas should be on the phone with Miami or Cleveland to make that deal.

[Tony7188]

26 minutes ago, DaBoys said:

I think it was more our DTs than DLaw. Although he is solid all the way around, he is more of a pass rusher than a run stopper. He played with the injury all year.  

Zach Allen would be an interesting choice, but I just can't see it with Crawford and Charlton still on the team. He's really solid against the run. 

Edited April 18, 2019 by Tony7188