SSG Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 1 minute ago, Packerraymond said: Is there such a thing as a non piss poor pass rusher at 17 years old? Lol. You think Von Miller stepped out of HS as an elite pass rusher? Gary came into UM as a bad pass rusher and left as a mediocre one. They didn't develop anything in him other than making him a bigger athletic freak than he came in, which is fine and helped his bull rush and first step tremendously, but he has no arsenal of moves. No one is calling him Von Miller. Being blunt what I'm saying is if you're truly surprised that he's struggled thus far than you don't study draft prospects and your opinion on him is a totally uninformed one. Rashan Gary was a 295 lb DT when he came to Michigan.... He came to Michigan as a physical size/ speed combo freak and he left as even a more physical specimen. They moved him up and down their defensive front to find the best fit and he didn't dominate in anyone of them. I'm not surprised by anything. He never consistently showed that he was a dominate edge rusher while at Michigan. Not uninformed at all. I'm a life long Michigan fan and a former season ticket holder that watched every snap of his college career. The difference is I'm not going to sugar coat it because he's now a Packer. I'm a big Rashan Gary fan but I'm concerned that he's not ever going to be anything more than a mediocre football player. Personally, I think he's a much better fit for the defensive line than he is the edge. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannondale Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, deathstar said: I’d be real interested in seeing Gary not playing well at Michigan. If anyone’s got any clips or games to watch let me know. Go to the beginning of this thread. Lots of video posted IIRC. I know I posted what looked like coaches tape from the Notre Dame game. Gary was lined up wide all day with one on ones. Edited August 24, 2019 by cannondale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneTwoSixFive Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 (edited) 14 hours ago, SSG said: No one is calling him Von Miller. Being blunt what I'm saying is if you're truly surprised that he's struggled thus far than you don't study draft prospects and your opinion on him is a totally uninformed one. Yep. The general opinion of 'draft experts' was that he is a very high potential individual, who had some disappointing stats (relative to his projected ceiling), at Michigan. I know grammar police can be irritating, but I have seen this mistake with dominate a few times."He never consistently showed that he was a dominate edge rusher, while at Michigan." (wrong) "He never consistently showed that he was a dominant edge rusher, while at Michigan." (right) "He never consistently showed that he was dominating as an edge rusher, while at Michigan." (right) As a pass rusher he could dominate opponents (right) Apologies for nitpicking, it's just the ocd in me. Edited August 25, 2019 by OneTwoSixFive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 42 minutes ago, SSG said: Rashan Gary was a 295 lb DT when he came to Michigan.... He came to Michigan as a physical size/ speed combo freak and he left as even a more physical specimen. They moved him up and down their defensive front to find the best fit and he didn't dominate in anyone of them. I'm not surprised by anything. He never consistently showed that he was a dominate edge rusher while at Michigan. Not uninformed at all. I'm a life long Michigan fan and a former season ticket holder that watched every snap of his college career. The difference is I'm not going to sugar coat it because he's now a Packer. I'm a big Rashan Gary fan but I'm concerned that he's not ever going to be anything more than a mediocre football player. Personally, I think he's a much better fit for the defensive line than he is the edge. Well it makes sense now seeing as your a Michigan fan. They didn't do a good job with Gary. If he went down South, I bet we're talking about a guy who went top 3. Look at what Clemson got out of Ferrell and Wilkins, can you imagine of Gary went there? Damn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannondale Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: Well it makes sense now seeing as your a Michigan fan. They didn't do a good job with Gary. If he went down South, I bet we're talking about a guy who went top 3. Look at what Clemson got out of Ferrell and Wilkins, can you imagine of Gary went there? Damn. The thing is, with his size, speed, strength, weight ratio, even if he had bad coaching, you'd think he would make a difference just on attributes alone. Heck even luck. Is he too nice ? Is he scared ? Is he making business decisions every play ? Part of this is a puzzle that needs solving, if some of us are correct that is. I think ZSmith has even taken Gary under his wing. Something doesn't add up. Edited August 24, 2019 by cannondale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
festiveonion Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 3 hours ago, Rainmaker90 said: It’s just mind bottling, really. Embarrassing ope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 16 hours ago, cannondale said: That's ok - I'm not here for likes or pen pals. I feel the exact same way about the optimism based on nothing. Those fans should pump the brakes. There is something that keeps being ignored. Aaron Rodgers put up numbers in college. He produced at a high level. He dominated against his peers. Not to mention the QB position is a stand alone when it comes to evaluation. Aaron Jones put up numbers in college. Adams put up numbers. Nelson put up numbers. Yes, there are exceptions but they are few and far between. My concerns on Day 1 are the same concerns on Day 101. Palmy once said that there are two positions that flash immediately in the pros. Runners and rushers. Bill Parcells once said that until you do it, you can't do it. But I digress. There is plenty of college tape with Gary being stalemated one on one. It was one of the first things I saw when researching after the pick. His lack of production is well documented. It was a concern in every player evaluation. How does Tarzan never make a play ? "His college coaches said this" "His college coaches said that" I say blah blah blah. Show me something. Anything. Every excuse in the book has been made on Gary's behalf. We are talking about a Top 12 pick here. If Gary was a 5th Round pick fans would be saying he should be cut, or on the bubble, or sent to the practice squad because he has shown next to nothing against guys who will be making fries in two weeks. I hope he has dominating career, and I will be the first to say I was wrong. I'm simply not going to give the guy a pass and ignore the warning signs due to green and gold glasses. I'd only argue with the early returns on Rodgers, but that is not really the topic at hand. I too watched some of the cut-up games of Gary. I wasn't wowed. I am looking for improvement. Watching the last two games, I noticed him a couple of times. I thought that he did an excellent job on holding the edge on a run that led to a TFL against the Ravens. Against the Raiders he made a decent drop into coverage on a TE, something I didn't think he could do. I am just not one to dismiss a player this early. He certainly needs work, and anyone denying that needs to pay less attention to beat writer fluff, and more attention to in game reps. So far, who has been the most impressive of the rookies in the preseason? Hollman? Summers, just based on volume? So far, this draft class hasn't been lighting the league on fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packer_ESP Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said: So far, who has been the most impressive of the rookies in the preseason? Hollman? Summers, just based on volume? So far, this draft class hasn't been lighting the league on fire. Jenkins Edit: Keke has flashed too and Savage is looking good. The only disappointments are Gary and Sternberger but we knew these two needed time. I wouldn't say it's been a bad draft so far though it's still way too early to tell. Edited August 25, 2019 by Packer_ESP 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donzo Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 19 hours ago, cannondale said: Use your words to prove it otherwise. There's nothing to prove. You made an unsubstantiated throwaway statement. I simply pointed out how ridiculous that statement was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donzo Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 2 hours ago, ThatJerkDave said: So far, this draft class hasn't been lighting the league on fire. Well, if you ignore a lot of stuff, I guess you could spin it that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaper Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 Im guessing we are constantly seeing new msgs about this because its the preseason and there is nothing else going on. Everyone knew he was a work in progress. We should be looking for improvements in play rather than stats. If you watch even the past 3 games you see marked improvement especially in his containment. I am assuming that they are giving him specific things to focus on and to recognize. He is very young and raw he will need some time to put all of these things together. From what I understand he has two pass rush moves and one of them is devistating however I have not seen any attempted really in the games. Perhaps when the lights are on he has too much going on to put a sequence together to setup and perform a rush move and if thats the case when the game slows down a bit he should be ok. I am with a lot of guys on here that this was a pick on potential from day one. I expect to see him get 4-6 sacks in situational rushes this season and then next year should be a jump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donzo Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 5 minutes ago, Reaper said: Im guessing we are constantly seeing new msgs about this because its the preseason and there is nothing else going on. Everyone knew he was a work in progress. We should be looking for improvements in play rather than stats. If you watch even the past 3 games you see marked improvement especially in his containment. I am assuming that they are giving him specific things to focus on and to recognize. He is very young and raw he will need some time to put all of these things together. There ya go- well said! For some reason, though, a lot of posters here just don't want to acknowledge that. But, for those all gung-ho on rookies having good preseason stats, checkout Josh Jones in 2017- baller! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaper Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 2 hours ago, Donzo said: There ya go- well said! For some reason, though, a lot of posters here just don't want to acknowledge that. But, for those all gung-ho on rookies having good preseason stats, checkout Josh Jones in 2017- baller! So there are two trains of thought at play when it comes to first rounders. #1 Day 1 starter immediate contributer camp,#2 draft on potential and get the highest ceiling player you think you can develop into something incredible. What makes this draft awesome to me is we were able to do both. I think people were thinking with two firsts you would get two impact day 1 starters but you may instead have gotten the day 1 impact starter in savage and also the highest ceiling guy in Gary in a year this may very well be a draft coup pulled off by Gute and company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfman Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 Barring a lot of injuries early, I think Gary will be a specialist the first third of the season at least. As the year progresses and he starts to master techniques his role could expand. Having said that, I'm still predicting 10 sacks from the guy this year! Until game sixteen is in the books, I"m standing by that optimistic prediction. I'm a guy that was not fond of this guy pre-draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonKarman Posted August 26, 2019 Share Posted August 26, 2019 Yeah, because you get to master techniques in a couple months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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