Goldfish's Way Too Early Draft Rankings 2019 - Cardinals at 1

[PossibleCabbage]

Savage vs. Adderley will be an interesting one to watch since Savage was much, much better in senior bowl practices than the Blue Hen safety.  I think "level of competition" is a real thing for safeties.  Savage is much more my type of safety than Abram, since they already have Jones (who can only play in the box) and Amos (who is fine there).  What they needed was a rangy guy who can play centerfield, and also do other things.  I'm not sure who your second choice is there.

I think a lot of people are reading "raw" on Savage when what we really see is "Maryland was bad at defense."  When you have situations like "the defensive front cannot stop the run" then that basically makes your safeties susceptible to the play action game no matter how good they are.

Edited May 3, 2019 by PossibleCabbage

[Shanedorf]

1 hour ago, Chrissooner49er said:

Gary is the epitome of what you hope a guy might be with so little production to show for his career in Ann Arbor. There is nothing to say he won't bust in the NFL

It's a really strange scenario. Below are the scout comments collected by Bob McGinn and they were a mix of complimentary and plenty of rips. But when Bob asked the same scouts to rank who is best DL, Gary came in # 2, ahead of Simmons, Oliver, Wilkins and others. And when McGinn asked the scouts to rank likelihood of busting, Gary came in 4th, lower than Tillery, Oliver and Wilkins. Just a hard guy to project. The 9 on the wonderlic is because the kid is dyslexic.

2. RASHAN GARY, Michigan (6-4 ½, 276, 4.63, 1): Third-year junior. “He plays along the line on his feet, he’s explosive, he’s got twitch, he’s got a great get-off and lean,” said one scout. “His skill level is in the top 5 to 10%. His production is in the top 40%. “I don’t think Gary will be a bust,” said one executive. “He’ll always play because he does have these gifts.” We see him as a 5-technique but he could be a 3-technique. With that speed he can play on the right side.” Two-year starter in a multiple scheme, usually on the left side. “His whole life he has been the biggest, fastest person,” a second scout said. “With that you don’t have to strain and do the extras. I think that’s what happened to him. Everything was just so easy for him that he hasn’t incorporated that internal high motor to match his physical gifts. The production is not there … You see him anchor and toss people. You see him bull rush and stab guys. Then you don’t see it. He and Ed Oliver have a chance to bust. He’s just always been so much better than everyone else that he never had to try to kick your ***.” Led the position in the 40-yard dash, vertical jump (38 inches) and broad jump (10-0). His Wonderlic of 9 was the lowest among the top 25 D-linemen. “I’m not sold that Rashan Gary loves football,” a third scout said. “His football character is not very good. His interview wasn’t good. He thinks he’s this great worker. He has plays that he could have made but he didn’t finish or pursue.” From Plainfield, N.J. “I wish I had him,” said a fourth scout. “When he’s visible, he’s visible.”

[Shanedorf]

5 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

they trusted Mike Pettine on day 1

More from the McGinn pre-draft article:

“Of the 32 teams, there’s 29 D-line coaches saying they’ll coach it out of him,” said another personnel man. “That’s what’s going on in all the draft rooms

“He flashes things that only the great ones can do,” one executive in personnel said this month. “He could have been clearly the No. 1 guy drafted.”

[Chrissooner49er]

9 minutes ago, Shanedorf said:

It's a really strange scenario. Below are the scout comments collected by Bob McGinn and they were a mix of complimentary and plenty of rips. But when Bob asked the same scouts to rank who is best DL, Gary came in # 2, ahead of Simmons, Oliver, Wilkins and others. And when McGinn asked the scouts to rank likelihood of busting, Gary came in 4th, lower than Tillery, Oliver and Wilkins. Just a hard guy to project. The 9 on the wonderlic is because the kid is dyslexic.

2. RASHAN GARY, Michigan (6-4 ½, 276, 4.63, 1): Third-year junior. “He plays along the line on his feet, he’s explosive, he’s got twitch, he’s got a great get-off and lean,” said one scout. “His skill level is in the top 5 to 10%. His production is in the top 40%. “I don’t think Gary will be a bust,” said one executive. “He’ll always play because he does have these gifts.” We see him as a 5-technique but he could be a 3-technique. With that speed he can play on the right side.” Two-year starter in a multiple scheme, usually on the left side. “His whole life he has been the biggest, fastest person,” a second scout said. “With that you don’t have to strain and do the extras. I think that’s what happened to him. Everything was just so easy for him that he hasn’t incorporated that internal high motor to match his physical gifts. The production is not there … You see him anchor and toss people. You see him bull rush and stab guys. Then you don’t see it. He and Ed Oliver have a chance to bust. He’s just always been so much better than everyone else that he never had to try to kick your ***.” Led the position in the 40-yard dash, vertical jump (38 inches) and broad jump (10-0). His Wonderlic of 9 was the lowest among the top 25 D-linemen. “I’m not sold that Rashan Gary loves football,” a third scout said. “His football character is not very good. His interview wasn’t good. He thinks he’s this great worker. He has plays that he could have made but he didn’t finish or pursue.” From Plainfield, N.J. “I wish I had him,” said a fourth scout. “When he’s visible, he’s visible.”

The bold is my point exactly...all too often it has been the recipe of a bust in the NFL. If you don't have the work ethic by the time you are an adult, you may never own it.

Edited May 3, 2019 by Chrissooner49er

[Packerraymond]

2 minutes ago, Chrissooner49er said:

The bold is my point exactly...all too often it has been the recipe of a bust in the NFL. If you don't have the work ethic by the time you are an adult, you may never own it.

That's one scouts opinion though. Michigan coaches and the area scout in GB pounded the table for him in regards to the work ethic and football character. All depends on who you talk to.

[BleedTheClock]

33 minutes ago, Shanedorf said:

Also: Weren't you the guy who bet his life that Joe Jackson would go top 100 ? Glad yer still with us

Yep that was me. 

[goldfishwars]

1 hour ago, Packerraymond said:

That's one scouts opinion though. Michigan coaches and the area scout in GB pounded the table for him in regards to the work ethic and football character. All depends on who you talk to.

Kind of makes trying to read anything into them them a waste of time. Sure they're fun, but the range of opinions are so extreme and hyperbolic they're almost meaningless. 

[goldfishwars]

14. LA Rams

Selections
61. Los Angeles Rams - Taylor Rapp  [ S ] Washington
70. Los Angeles Rams - Darrell Henderson  [ RB ] Memphis
79. Los Angeles Rams - David Long  [ CB ] Michigan
97. Los Angeles Rams - Bobby Evans  [ OT ] Oklahoma
134. Los Angeles Rams - Greg Gaines  [ DT ] Washington
169. Los Angeles Rams - David Edwards  [ OT ] Wisconsin
243. Los Angeles Rams - Nick Scott  [ S ] Penn State
251. Los Angeles Rams - Dakota Allen  [ LB ] Texas Tech

Picks Heading In
31. 
94.
99.
134. 
169.
203.
251.

Favorite Pick 
Darrell Henderson  - This was a tough one, because I like a lot of the players selected – but I’m to going to go with the guy I’ve been pimping all draft season long. McVay played it cool when asked about Henderson and referred to him as a ‘change-of-pace’ back and compared him to Lance Dunbar. Perhaps that’s how the Rams plan to use for a while, but I think he’s too talented to be relegated to a minor role long-term unless his pass protection really does not improve. It doesn’t take a genius to assume this pick is probably insurance for whatever the hell is going on with Gurley’s health. Henderson’s tape at Memphis was insane, so much fun and I’ve not seen anything like it since CJ2K was tearing it up at Tennessee. Literally every time this guy got a crease, he ended up making leaving a trail of defenders in his wake. The offensive scheme is all about creating those gaps and now it has another weapon to play with. 

Overview
Man, Les Snead is just getting so good at this now. Without a lot of needs to fill, the Rams were happy trading back three times to create as capital right in the meat of where the value was in this draft. They landed a whole range of potential contributors and a lot of players I really liked at the spots they were taken in. Edge Rusher ended up not being addressed at all which I suppose was the only surprise, there was a moment when they traded back up to 70 which we all thought might be for Chase Winovich. But, instead it was for a home-run hitting running back which has caused a little ripple of interest. 

Rapp at 61 is super solid, even with the slow forty time which may have been explained away by a minor hip issue. He’s so smart at diagnosing and snuffing out threat that it’s really interesting, and great for him, that he’ll get to learn from Eric Weddle for a year because that’s exactly where his pretty unique skill-set could take him. David Long is another smart, savvy operator at corner. Wade loves his physical corners and whilst Long comes in a slightly smaller package, he’s great at jamming and disrupting at the line and has that competitive streak to go after receivers you love to see. He tested out above expectations too, so it was a mild surprise to see him this low. 

Bobby Evans at 97 was a very decent mid-round tackle prospect at the tail-end of the starting caliber lineman in this draft class. The Rams needed depth at offensive line and Evans is experienced at both sides and could probably slide inside if needed. He’s solid in both aspects of the game and could be a little more than a swing tackle at the next level. Greg Gaines does one thing really well, which is anchor down and make himself a pain to deal with. He’s not going to offer much in the way of pass-rush but he does give you someone you know exactly what you’ll get back. Those guys are worth having around on the rotation. 

I really wasn’t in love with David Edwards at the 1st round hype he was getting early on in the process, but in the 5th round this is way, way more palatable. He’s a big guy with light feet, but would probably benefit from a year inside an NFL weight room. It’s definitely smart to keep taking mid-round tackles with Andrew Whitworth nearing the end and contracts being what they are in FA – if you hit on one of these dudes it’s incredibly valuable. Nick Scott and Dakota Allen round out the selections. Scott sounds like a special teams ace from Penn State and Dakota Allen offers potential depth at inside linebacker, but probably needs to find a similar path as Scott to get into the 53. 

[Shanedorf]

3 hours ago, goldfishwars said:

Kind of makes trying to read anything into them them a waste of time. Sure they're fun, but the range of opinions are so extreme and hyperbolic they're almost meaningless. 

Indeed, and that's sort of by design.
He sifts through all the scout comments and makes sure he has both positive and negatives in every one.
He's been pretty consistent with it for a long time. We want more definitive answers from the scouts, but this is the nature of the beast in projecting young dudes into the NFL. Think about the miss rate - we all understand it. But when presented with these polar opposite comments - we tend push back and call them meaningless because there is such a wide variety of opinions. I think that's just the reality

[Scoundrel]

All y’all trying to defend new players on your team who haven’t even played yet is so cute

[NVRamsFan]

7 hours ago, goldfishwars said:

14. LA Rams

Selections
61. Los Angeles Rams - Taylor Rapp  [ S ] Washington
70. Los Angeles Rams - Darrell Henderson  [ RB ] Memphis
79. Los Angeles Rams - David Long  [ CB ] Michigan
97. Los Angeles Rams - Bobby Evans  [ OT ] Oklahoma
134. Los Angeles Rams - Greg Gaines  [ DT ] Washington
169. Los Angeles Rams - David Edwards  [ OT ] Wisconsin
243. Los Angeles Rams - Nick Scott  [ S ] Penn State
251. Los Angeles Rams - Dakota Allen  [ LB ] Texas Tech

Picks Heading In
31. 
94.
99.
134. 
169.
203.
251.

Favorite Pick 
Darrell Henderson  - This was a tough one, because I like a lot of the players selected – but I’m to going to go with the guy I’ve been pimping all draft season long. McVay played it cool when asked about Henderson and referred to him as a ‘change-of-pace’ back and compared him to Lance Dunbar. Perhaps that’s how the Rams plan to use for a while, but I think he’s too talented to be relegated to a minor role long-term unless his pass protection really does not improve. It doesn’t take a genius to assume this pick is probably insurance for whatever the hell is going on with Gurley’s health. Henderson’s tape at Memphis was insane, so much fun and I’ve not seen anything like it since CJ2K was tearing it up at Tennessee. Literally every time this guy got a crease, he ended up making leaving a trail of defenders in his wake. The offensive scheme is all about creating those gaps and now it has another weapon to play with. 

Overview
Man, Les Snead is just getting so good at this now. Without a lot of needs to fill, the Rams were happy trading back three times to create as capital right in the meat of where the value was in this draft. They landed a whole range of potential contributors and a lot of players I really liked at the spots they were taken in. Edge Rusher ended up not being addressed at all which I suppose was the only surprise, there was a moment when they traded back up to 70 which we all thought might be for Chase Winovich. But, instead it was for a home-run hitting running back which has caused a little ripple of interest. 

Rapp at 61 is super solid, even with the slow forty time which may have been explained away by a minor hip issue. He’s so smart at diagnosing and snuffing out threat that it’s really interesting, and great for him, that he’ll get to learn from Eric Weddle for a year because that’s exactly where his pretty unique skill-set could take him. David Long is another smart, savvy operator at corner. Wade loves his physical corners and whilst Long comes in a slightly smaller package, he’s great at jamming and disrupting at the line and has that competitive streak to go after receivers you love to see. He tested out above expectations too, so it was a mild surprise to see him this low. 

Bobby Evans at 97 was a very decent mid-round tackle prospect at the tail-end of the starting caliber lineman in this draft class. The Rams needed depth at offensive line and Evans is experienced at both sides and could probably slide inside if needed. He’s solid in both aspects of the game and could be a little more than a swing tackle at the next level. Greg Gaines does one thing really well, which is anchor down and make himself a pain to deal with. He’s not going to offer much in the way of pass-rush but he does give you someone you know exactly what you’ll get back. Those guys are worth having around on the rotation. 

I really wasn’t in love with David Edwards at the 1st round hype he was getting early on in the process, but in the 5th round this is way, way more palatable. He’s a big guy with light feet, but would probably benefit from a year inside an NFL weight room. It’s definitely smart to keep taking mid-round tackles with Andrew Whitworth nearing the end and contracts being what they are in FA – if you hit on one of these dudes it’s incredibly valuable. Nick Scott and Dakota Allen round out the selections. Scott sounds like a special teams ace from Penn State and Dakota Allen offers potential depth at inside linebacker, but probably needs to find a similar path as Scott to get into the 53. 

Excellent write up thank you! Speculation was all over the board on where the Rams would go this draft. DB's and OLine depth made too much sense to not be a focus with contracts as you say being what they are. Saffold is gone but we should have his replacement in last years 3rd rounder Noteboom, who also may slide out next year to replace Whitworth. If not one of these tackles or a pick next year could be asked to do it but if it's Noteboom one of those 2 will get a chance at LG and with Blythe in the last year of his contract it could be both of them are the starting Guards next year.

Weddle on a 2 year deal so a couple Safeties made a ton of sense. Fassell loves Scott and Wade has talked him up as depth at Safety as well. Talib and Peters are entering the last years of their contracts so CB also made sense and Long looks like a great fit for Wade.

Personally I'm just glad we didn't stay put at 31 and draft a center! As you also said Edge was thought to be a high need but with Matthews signing along with Fowler being brought back we have those 2 and last years other starter Samson Ebukam along with last years draft pick Okowronko. Last year we also drafted a couple development guys in Trevon Young and Justin Lawler. Wade seems comfortable with his depth there.

Most of us love what Les Snead has become as a GM with Fisher and his control gone. He's a trading machine, last year every pick was either a comp pick or one we acquired in a trade. This year only one pick we made was an original Rams pick.

[goldfishwars]

13. New York Jets

Selections
3. New York Jets - Quinnen Williams  [ DT ] Alabama
68. New York Jets - Jachai Polite  [ EDGE ] Florida
92. New York Jets - Chuma Edoga  [ OT ] USC
121. New York Jets - Trevon Wesco  [ TE ] West Virginia
157. New York Jets - Blake Cashman  [ LB ] Minnesota
196. New York Jets - Blessuan Austin  [ CB ] Rutgers

Picks Heading In
3.
68.
92.
105.
196.
217.

Favorite Pick 
Quinnen Williams – Probably the best player in the draft, certainly the number one player on my board. He had a weird career at Alabama, a bit-part defensive end until he decided he wants to play inside and suddenly he becomes this unblockable monster up the middle all year long. He’s somehow developed the hand usage of a savvy veteran in a very short period of time and has the explosion off the snap to get instant penetration. Teams are going to have their hands full with this Jets interior. Whilst the Jets have played this tune in the first round several times, I still think this was absolutely the right move if a trade down at a good price was not possible. 

Overview
Even without what was half-expected to be a trade down for much needed picks, the Jets landed a series of good players, albeit with some bust potential sprinkled in, in a small-ish class which is pretty similar to what they did last year. I like some of the UDFA’s they signed too, particularly Greg Dortch and Tyler Jones who are both capable of making the team, but are not part of this assessment. Whilst Jones might help the depth on the interior offensive line, the fairly glaring omission is an earlier investment at cornerback, which is probably the tax they have to pay for sticking with Quinnen at 3. 

Jachai Polite endured the draft season from hell after putting out a really strong tape at edge rusher for the Gators this year. I don’t know what’s going on in Florida, but they seem to produce a lot of bad athletes who look juicy as hell on film, it’s getting weird now. Jachai really does look twitched up and explosive off the edge though, which made his combine performance almost surreal. You sat there wondering what had happened to Jachai Polite watching this dude with the bad weight added and the moobs swinging away during a disaster 40 time was. And the vocal complaining about being given a hard time during interviews, man surely someone told him what to expect. As 3rd round picks go, this is absolutely worth spending for a team who are beyond thirsty for even solid edge play. 

I like the Chuma Edoga pick at 92. He’s a former five star recruit who played throughout a strange and dysfunctional period in USC’s history. He was a bit of a forgotten man before resurrecting his draft stock during week at the Senior Bowl where he was named Player of the Week for his performances in practice. He’s not a physically dominating presence, but can win with a combination of excellent footwork and quickness. There’s a chance he could supplant Brandon Shell at right tackle if it pans out early, given his ability to line up on both sides. The Jets further helped their offensive line with the Trevon Wesco pick, who might not offer huge upside as a receiver (but has more to show there) – but can really help to get that run game firing with his ability to block in space. That's could prove crucial with Le'Veon Bell in town. 

Blake Cashman drew rave reviews for his impressive workout at the combine, many thought that would vault him into contention as the third linebacker off the board. He’s got pretty decent tape too, but the three shoulder surgeries in his recent history is probably the reason he didn’t land any higher. It’ll be nice if that troublesome issue is behind him now.  I caught onto Blessuan Austin late in the process and he could be a sneaky pick, without wanting to expect too much for a 6th rounder. He was very much on the radar as a potential highly drafted playmaking corner prospect two years ago, but knee issues have ended his last two seasons prematurely. If those issues are a thing of the past, the Jets could have a steal on their hands here.  

[PossibleCabbage]

5 hours ago, Counselor said:

All y’all trying to defend new players on your team who haven’t even played yet is so cute

I mean, I was in on "Savage is the best safety in this draft" and "anybody who is in on Oliver or Metcalf should be in on Gary, and vice versa" at least a month ago. 

[Ozzy]

14 hours ago, goldfishwars said:

14. LA Rams

Selections
61. Los Angeles Rams - Taylor Rapp  [ S ] Washington
70. Los Angeles Rams - Darrell Henderson  [ RB ] Memphis
79. Los Angeles Rams - David Long  [ CB ] Michigan
97. Los Angeles Rams - Bobby Evans  [ OT ] Oklahoma
134. Los Angeles Rams - Greg Gaines  [ DT ] Washington
169. Los Angeles Rams - David Edwards  [ OT ] Wisconsin
243. Los Angeles Rams - Nick Scott  [ S ] Penn State
251. Los Angeles Rams - Dakota Allen  [ LB ] Texas Tech

Picks Heading In
31. 
94.
99.
134. 
169.
203.
251.

Favorite Pick 
Darrell Henderson  - This was a tough one, because I like a lot of the players selected – but I’m to going to go with the guy I’ve been pimping all draft season long. McVay played it cool when asked about Henderson and referred to him as a ‘change-of-pace’ back and compared him to Lance Dunbar. Perhaps that’s how the Rams plan to use for a while, but I think he’s too talented to be relegated to a minor role long-term unless his pass protection really does not improve. It doesn’t take a genius to assume this pick is probably insurance for whatever the hell is going on with Gurley’s health. Henderson’s tape at Memphis was insane, so much fun and I’ve not seen anything like it since CJ2K was tearing it up at Tennessee. Literally every time this guy got a crease, he ended up making leaving a trail of defenders in his wake. The offensive scheme is all about creating those gaps and now it has another weapon to play with. 

Overview
Man, Les Snead is just getting so good at this now. Without a lot of needs to fill, the Rams were happy trading back three times to create as capital right in the meat of where the value was in this draft. They landed a whole range of potential contributors and a lot of players I really liked at the spots they were taken in. Edge Rusher ended up not being addressed at all which I suppose was the only surprise, there was a moment when they traded back up to 70 which we all thought might be for Chase Winovich. But, instead it was for a home-run hitting running back which has caused a little ripple of interest. 

Rapp at 61 is super solid, even with the slow forty time which may have been explained away by a minor hip issue. He’s so smart at diagnosing and snuffing out threat that it’s really interesting, and great for him, that he’ll get to learn from Eric Weddle for a year because that’s exactly where his pretty unique skill-set could take him. David Long is another smart, savvy operator at corner. Wade loves his physical corners and whilst Long comes in a slightly smaller package, he’s great at jamming and disrupting at the line and has that competitive streak to go after receivers you love to see. He tested out above expectations too, so it was a mild surprise to see him this low. 

Bobby Evans at 97 was a very decent mid-round tackle prospect at the tail-end of the starting caliber lineman in this draft class. The Rams needed depth at offensive line and Evans is experienced at both sides and could probably slide inside if needed. He’s solid in both aspects of the game and could be a little more than a swing tackle at the next level. Greg Gaines does one thing really well, which is anchor down and make himself a pain to deal with. He’s not going to offer much in the way of pass-rush but he does give you someone you know exactly what you’ll get back. Those guys are worth having around on the rotation. 

I really wasn’t in love with David Edwards at the 1st round hype he was getting early on in the process, but in the 5th round this is way, way more palatable. He’s a big guy with light feet, but would probably benefit from a year inside an NFL weight room. It’s definitely smart to keep taking mid-round tackles with Andrew Whitworth nearing the end and contracts being what they are in FA – if you hit on one of these dudes it’s incredibly valuable. Nick Scott and Dakota Allen round out the selections. Scott sounds like a special teams ace from Penn State and Dakota Allen offers potential depth at inside linebacker, but probably needs to find a similar path as Scott to get into the 53. 

I agree with your take on Henderson.  He is arguably the steal of the draft, that kid was insanely good on Memphis this past year and to last till the 3rd round for a team in big need of a RB with Gurley's health.  I agree completely and Henderson could be huge for this team and has big time speed and big time play making ability.  Greg Gaines is a good fit as well, great motor and should be a good rotation guy.  And they got two fine OT prospects, both have potential and are some what raw still but great pickups there.  Rapp as well I think a lot of people underrate him because of that poor 40 time, but the kid can play and if his 40 time was better he would have been a 1st round pick all day long.  Kid can play deep in coverage, in the box and in the slot and has great ball skills.  

 

PS  Kind of scary the Vikings have not been listed yet.  Not sure if you think Bradbury and Smith are going to be Pro bowlers or something but I feel especially late they missed some guys in this draft.  The last three picks I was not a huge fan of, did like the Samia pickup and Mattison is good but not sure taking him in the 3rd round was smart, he probably would have been there in the 4th or 5th round.  Boyd and Udoh I like those picks a long with Cameron Smith but not sure overall they have as much potential as some other teams drafts.  They passed one some very good players and did not really address the DL issue in terms of depth and future pass rushers or interior guys.

[y*so*blu]

1 hour ago, Ozzy said:

PS  Kind of scary the Vikings have not been listed yet.  Not sure if you think Bradbury and Smith are going to be Pro bowlers or something but I feel especially late they missed some guys in this draft.  The last three picks I was not a huge fan of, did like the Samia pickup and Mattison is good but not sure taking him in the 3rd round was smart, he probably would have been there in the 4th or 5th round.  Boyd and Udoh I like those picks a long with Cameron Smith but not sure overall they have as much potential as some other teams drafts.  They passed one some very good players and did not really address the DL issue in terms of depth and future pass rushers or interior guys.

I wouldn't have put the Vikings this high myself, but maybe GFW's perspective (goldfishwars, not Global Force Wrestling) will shed some light on it. Having to pass on good players is the nature of the draft, either because they're not scheme fits or Spielman, Zim, and our revamped offensive coaching staff saw qualities they like more in other guys. I don't think the d-line was a major need compared to the o-line or the departure of Murray, so hopefully taking Watts in the 6th, bringing back Shamar Stephen, and getting Odenigbo in UDFA will suffice.