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[Fresh Prince]

1 hour ago, ttitansfan4life said:

Yea exactly. I remember it used to be one of my favorite PPVs. Now it’s just a joke 

Last year was good also, but they really messed this one up. Should just move TLC or into that spot. Among the Fans EC is one of the big 5. Survivor Series hasn’t been good for a long time. 
 

Wrestlemania, Summer Slam, Royal Rumble, Elimination Chamber, Money In The Bank are their best PPVS 

[Fresh Prince]

Good two matches so far

[DawgX]

LOL I didn't even realize EC was on today. Just looked at the card... what a joke of a PPV. I'm sure the tag match in the Chamber will be fun, but what an underwhelming card.

[Fresh Prince]

48 minutes ago, DawgX said:

LOL I didn't even realize EC was on today. Just looked at the card... what a joke of a PPV. I'm sure the tag match in the Chamber will be fun, but what an underwhelming card.

It’s been a really good PPV so far 

[PARROTHEAD]

50 minutes ago, DawgX said:

LOL I didn't even realize EC was on today. Just looked at the card... what a joke of a PPV. I'm sure the tag match in the Chamber will be fun, but what an underwhelming card.

Neither part time champ could be bothered to work. 3 vs 1 handicap for the IC title, SD Tag is the only mens EC match. Humberto vs Andrade again. Outside a cage present. Not any difference from a weekday show.

The Rumble winner picks a Champ to face. The EC should be a decider for the other. Just gift wrapping another main event for Roman has had zero buildup or hype to it.

[Jeezla]

The black mass to AJ was probably the best looking one I've seen. That looked like it hit him square in the face, and AJ sold the hell out of it. Taker shouldn't have held back on the chokeslam at the end, but nice to see him.

Edited March 9, 2020 by Jeezla

[PARROTHEAD]

If AJ is going against Taker at Mania. He should be on fire rolling into the match. But hes looked weak all 3 times shown from the Saudi event till now. He should have been in control and about to win the match when Taker showed. Not needing a 3 on 1 advantage.

Worst buildup to a Mania in history. Edge-Orton is all they got half interesting.

[Mox]

That was the worst chamber match ever

[The Gnat]

Overall, thought this was an okay ppv. It was fairly just okay. I wonder what they are going to do with some of the titles, Bayley's title, Women's Tag title, IC Title, Morrison/Miz tag titles. I wish there had been something a bit more unique that had happened in the PPV though.

[Deadpulse]

16 minutes ago, The Gnat said:

Overall, thought this was an okay ppv. It was fairly just okay. I wonder what they are going to do with some of the titles, Bayley's title, Women's Tag title, IC Title, Morrison/Miz tag titles. I wish there had been something a bit more unique that had happened in the PPV though.

I was fully expecting some type of swerve from the general direction they have been heading for awhile, but no such luck.

The Tag Chamber match was solid. The Raw Tag match was solid. AJ and Black was fantastic. The Women's Chamber was awful. The IC bout was so meh. They really botched the value of that title. The US title match was very good, but boy is Humberto the most boring contender ever. 

[Dr LBC]

2 hours ago, Deadpulse said:

I was fully expecting some type of swerve from the general direction they have been heading for awhile, but no such luck.

The Tag Chamber match was solid. The Raw Tag match was solid. AJ and Black was fantastic. The Women's Chamber was awful. The IC bout was so meh. They really botched the value of that title. The US title match was very good, but boy is Humberto the most boring contender ever. 

I'm not going to mark out over this PPV, though I do feel is was a big more than solid.  But I also feel like it shows the hypocrisy of a fair amount of internet fans - especially the ones who want to claim that "they want good storytelling" and "they care about the in-ring work" most.  This was, by and large, a workers' PPV card and there are still people that crapped all over it.

Now, there were some obvious execution issues (mostly in production, nothing you can hang on the talent): Having Shayna got full on Chong Li and massacre everyone like she had a hockey mask and a machete was the right call - doing it so close on the heels of having Brock do effectively the same thing (sans finish) in the Rumble doesn't cheapen it, but it makes it feel repetitive; this was how Asuka should have been booked when she came to the main roster to begin with (legit doesn't matter who you put her up against, barring a select 2 or 3 big draws you plan to book her against in the next 9-12 months, she should MURK anyone else).  And it's the sort of thing that Vince isn't going to stand in the way of because he's booked it before - go back and watch Brock's rookie run after he came up from OVW; they had him obliterate Hogan for crying out loud - the only difference is that Shayna is, by all accounts, much more personable and get-along backstage compared to Brock, who was notoriously not.

The Chamber matches themselves have the same pacing issues that Rumble matches, fatal fourways, etc. all seem to have - and it's not just a WWE thing, it's pretty much everywhere now (MLW was the last place I saw it not pop up and even they've trended toward the industry norm now) - the standard camera sticks with the action between two guys/teams while everyone else takes a powder/rest on the outside.  It's a bit more understandable with the Chamber because even with the sky cam (of sorts) inside the cage, there are less options to cut to have action everywhich direction - so it gives an easy excuse for Dunn and co. to stick to Kevin's beloved hard-cam only approach.

Gulak/Bryan was very good - I know some folks are going to knock some clumsiness in it, but I actually chalk some of that up to psychology.  Had it been Daniel taking some of those bumps from anyone other than a top-shelf worker like Gulak, I'd have been genuinely concerned, but Gulak (and Daniel himself) did a good job protecting him and making stuff look worse than what it was.  Doubt it happens, but I'd love to see some sort of Varsity Club/Team Angle esque loose alliance with DB, Gulak, and (for God's sake save him) Gable - not "Shorty G."  Except that it's largely the same premise for Imperium in NXT, doing something similar to Gulak's Catch Point faction from EVOLVE would be ideal (the guys didn't even necessarily get along and would still compete against each other, but still respected each other and trained together).

US Title match was good.  Foot-in-mouth of the night goes to Lawler for a line very obviously handed to him via headset by Vince, where he bring up (on National Women's Day) Zelina (also Hispanic) was "doing some housecleaning" while she's ripping up the ring mat.  I legit facepalmed and wished that someone had kicked the chair out from under Vince in that moment.  Both guys worked their butts off, but I feel like the reason that these two - as is the case with many of the Mexican talent not named Rey or Eddie, who came in as known commodities and also helped each other to connect/get over - is they're not allowed to work true lucha style (more WWE style match with lucha elements).  How heavyhanded Vince insists on being with "He's LATIN!" about almost every Latino talent, to the point of nearly making them caricatures before they've even begun, doesn't help either.

Would it have been beneficial storyline-wise to have Roman win his title shot at Mania in the Chamber?  Sure.  But as soon as that match was booked, everyone would have known the outcome and you can't do two Chamber matches where everyone and their mother knows the will-be winners before the PPV has even started - and Shayna needed the build-up more.  I'd also argue that booking Roman in the Chamber match would have hurt other Smackdown talent more than they can really afford - especially with everyone knowing the for-sure outcome.  Sure Bryan could "look strong," but you know he's eventually getting pinned.  The Fiend shouldn't have taken another loss - organically, leaving alone Bray's own sake - because it takes some shine off the credibility you're trying to give Goldberg for having conquered the Fiend.  Everyone wants less Corbin, not more Corbin.  Smackdown just lacks the established singles stars (especially when you're already doing guys like Nakamura and Cesaro in a IC match with Braun).  Other than Asuka (who will survive and might have even gained some face shine as a result), let's be honest, in the women's Chamber, there wasn't a single talent booked in that match that wasn't expendable (even Natty).

[Deadpulse]

29 minutes ago, The LBC said:

Now, there were some obvious execution issues (mostly in production, nothing you can hang on the talent): Having Shayna got full on Chong Li and massacre everyone like she had a hockey mask and a machete was the right call - doing it so close on the heels of having Brock do effectively the same thing (sans finish) in the Rumble doesn't cheapen it, but it makes it feel repetitive; this was how Asuka should have been booked when she came to the main roster to begin with (legit doesn't matter who you put her up against, barring a select 2 or 3 big draws you plan to book her against in the next 9-12 months, she should MURK anyone else).  And it's the sort of thing that Vince isn't going to stand in the way of because he's booked it before - go back and watch Brock's rookie run after he came up from OVW; they had him obliterate Hogan for crying out loud - the only difference is that Shayna is, by all accounts, much more personable and get-along backstage compared to Brock, who was notoriously not.

I agree with the overall booking for Shayna, but they left her with nothing to do in the ring for too long and she wasn't sure what to do with herself. It would have been much better if she was more methodical and took the time she had between pods. The effect would have been the same and the crowd woudlnt have been lost. The reaction post match was poor. Maybe I just could hear it, but they seemed disinterested in the finish. I think its a combination of them tipping their hand HEAVILY that Shayna would win and the down time in the match. 

 

33 minutes ago, The LBC said:

Gulak/Bryan was very good - I know some folks are going to knock some clumsiness in it, but I actually chalk some of that up to psychology.  Had it been Daniel taking some of those bumps from anyone other than a top-shelf worker like Gulak, I'd have been genuinely concerned, but Gulak (and Daniel himself) did a good job protecting him and making stuff look worse than what it was.  Doubt it happens, but I'd love to see some sort of Varsity Club/Team Angle esque loose alliance with DB, Gulak, and (for God's sake save him) Gable - not "Shorty G."  Except that it's largely the same premise for Imperium in NXT, doing something similar to Gulak's Catch Point faction from EVOLVE would be ideal (the guys didn't even necessarily get along and would still compete against each other, but still respected each other and trained together).

I thought this was the best match of the night by a large margin. They actual told the story in the ring and the announcers actually helped sell the narrative. I hope something continues with this storyline as well, though I'm not sure a stable is the right route. DB seemed to give him the face rub, so I would run with that. Have guys backstage start to respect his advice and analytics and just see where it takes them. 

38 minutes ago, The LBC said:

US Title match was good.  Foot-in-mouth of the night goes to Lawler for a line very obviously handed to him via headset by Vince, where he bring up (on National Women's Day) Zelina (also Hispanic) was "doing some housecleaning" while she's ripping up the ring mat.  I legit facepalmed and wished that someone had kicked the chair out from under Vince in that moment.  Both guys worked their butts off, but I feel like the reason that these two - as is the case with many of the Mexican talent not named Rey or Eddie, who came in as known commodities and also helped each other to connect/get over - is they're not allowed to work true lucha style (more WWE style match with lucha elements).  How heavyhanded Vince insists on being with "He's LATIN!" about almost every Latino talent, to the point of nearly making them caricatures before they've even begun, doesn't help either.

I wanted this to be a dominate performance for Andrade so badly. I just feel like Carillo was forced down our throats. He has zero character. They have not made me care about him at all. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the in ring work quite a bit. However the combination of Humberto being thinner than paper and Andrade just coming back from suspension with almost no build to this match hurt its enjoy ability with me a whole lot. I also don't see why Andrade had to grab the tights... Heyman is protecting one of his binky's IMO. 

 

43 minutes ago, The LBC said:

Would it have been beneficial storyline-wise to have Roman win his title shot at Mania in the Chamber?  Sure.  But as soon as that match was booked, everyone would have known the outcome and you can't do two Chamber matches where everyone and their mother knows the will-be winners before the PPV has even started - and Shayna needed the build-up more.  I'd also argue that booking Roman in the Chamber match would have hurt other Smackdown talent more than they can really afford - especially with everyone knowing the for-sure outcome.  Sure Bryan could "look strong," but you know he's eventually getting pinned.  The Fiend shouldn't have taken another loss - organically, leaving alone Bray's own sake - because it takes some shine off the credibility you're trying to give Goldberg for having conquered the Fiend.  Everyone wants less Corbin, not more Corbin.  Smackdown just lacks the established singles stars (especially when you're already doing guys like Nakamura and Cesaro in a IC match with Braun).  Other than Asuka (who will survive and might have even gained some face shine as a result), let's be honest, in the women's Chamber, there wasn't a single talent booked in that match that wasn't expendable (even Natty).

I agree on all your points here. My only gripe is that I worry they might tumble all their good will they built for him by Roman asking and getting a mania title shot out of nowhere. Instead, I would have had Roman work a match on smackdown, kick in a mid carder in impressive fashion. Goldberg's music hits, he strolls down to the ring, looks at Roman, looks and his victim, looks at Roman, looks at his victim, have Roman start smiling and nodding like yea, I crushed that dude, then have Goldberg point to the mania sign and yell your next and walk out promptly. Even better if they have Goldberg come out and say something like "Im not sure who's next" and play that out a few weeks before this Roman spot. 

[Dr LBC]

22 minutes ago, Deadpulse said:

I agree with the overall booking for Shayna, but they left her with nothing to do in the ring for too long and she wasn't sure what to do with herself. It would have been much better if she was more methodical and took the time she had between pods. The effect would have been the same and the crowd woudlnt have been lost. The reaction post match was poor. Maybe I just could hear it, but they seemed disinterested in the finish. I think its a combination of them tipping their hand HEAVILY that Shayna would win and the down time in the match. 

Yeah, there was execution issue there.  I don't think she necessarily rushed things - she was working fast but I felt that doing that helped her build her character.  If it might not have done some injustice to Liv's character, I could have dealt with them hanging her from the Tree of Woe but on the outside of the ring, facing Asuka's pod, and totally working the "cat playing with a mouse it's caught" angle to really sell Shayna's sadistic side.  Liv's got a high tolerance for pain, in real life (without getting too much into her kink, she actually enjoys pain), so she could have handled some.  Not sure if they just weren't communicating to Shayne via the ref how much time she had left to work with or what.  As far as the crowd, like I said, if they weren't coming so close to the heels of having done something very similar to this at the Rumble with Brock I doubt that the live crowd experiences the "seen this before" feeling and likely gets into it more.

But I fully agree with booking and presenting Shayna like the big baddie in a Van Damme movie, she's got the perfect face for those Bolo Yeung expressions.

Quote

I wanted this to be a dominate performance for Andrade so badly. I just feel like Carillo was forced down our throats. He has zero character. They have not made me care about him at all. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the in ring work quite a bit. However the combination of Humberto being thinner than paper and Andrade just coming back from suspension with almost no build to this match hurt its enjoy ability with me a whole lot. I also don't see why Andrade had to grab the tights... Heyman is protecting one of his binky's IMO. 

He just has not charisma.  I get why Heyman likes him; it's the same reason why Heyman loved Super Crazy, but like Super Crazy, Vince doesn't get it because he has the personality of the cardboard box.  If they really want to get the most out of a Andrade vs Other Latino Star feud, flip Garza face.  The crowd already wants to cheer him, he's got charisma to spare (watch him on Xavier Woods' Up Up Down Down channel, he's fantastic, even with semi-broken English), and getting sympathy on him is easy as long as Andrade's got Zelina as a heater.  The main issue with this becomes that guys with broken English usually fall the biggest victims to Vince's terribly scripted promos, because it only accentuates both how imperfect their English is and how bad the script is.  There's some real potential to work around that though if they just let Garza go off on Andrade in Spanish and let Andrade react - even if the non-Spanish-speaking audience has no idea what he said, Andrade's flipping out at what being said should be enough.  Kind of ties back to the whole Kaentai/dubbed-"Indeed" gimmick.

[PARROTHEAD]

1 hour ago, Deadpulse said:

I agree with the overall booking for Shayna, but they left her with nothing to do in the ring for too long and she wasn't sure what to do with herself. It would have been much better if she was more methodical and took the time she had between pods. The effect would have been the same and the crowd woudlnt have been lost. The reaction post match was poor. Maybe I just could hear it, but they seemed disinterested in the finish. I think its a combination of them tipping their hand HEAVILY that Shayna would win and the down time in the match. 

 

 

I differ on that one. Only NXT fans know who Shayna even is. Had 1-2 matches on Raw. And at EC she is destroying the Raw Womens roster in seconds each. Womens roster was made to look weaker than any point in the Diva Era. Asuka comes in fresh at the end and isnt allowed to last 3 minutes.

For me. I would have Asuka run wild. Pull the fans into the match that this could happen. Then bring the monster in to dominate someone with a hot hand and crush their dreams. Theyve left themselves with nobody but Becky to toss at her Post-Mania should she win. That roster is too shallow a pool to have someone squash them all in seconds. Brock can get away with it because the pool is deep enough to where they could always pull a guy like Drew, Roman, Braun, Lashley or Fiend out of it to build on.

[Deadpulse]

2 minutes ago, PARROTHEAD said:

I differ on that one. Only NXT fans know who Shayna even is. Had 1-2 matches on Raw. And at EC she is destroying the Raw Womens roster in seconds each. Womens roster was made to look weaker than any point in the Diva Era. Asuka comes in fresh at the end and isnt allowed to last 3 minutes.

For me. I would have Asuka run wild. Pull the fans into the match that this could happen. Then bring the monster in to dominate someone with a hot hand and crush their dreams. Theyve left themselves with nobody but Becky to toss at her Post-Mania should she win. That roster is too shallow a pool to have someone squash them all in seconds. Brock can get away with it because the pool is deep enough to where they could always pull a guy like Drew, Roman, Braun, Lashley or Fiend out of it to build on.

Why would they have her barely beat Asuka? They want her to look like a big time threat to Becky, not someone at the same level as her last contender that she beat twice in a row.