2020 NFL Draft Thread

[Totty]

20 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Harris has an $11.1M cap hit and Adams has a $7.1M cap hit, would we be able to make the cap situation work with either guy? Plus they're both on one year deals so we'd have to agree to a lengthy extension with either player at the time of the trade. 

I think with Adams, you do that.  Game changer. 

[NYRaider]

39 minutes ago, agarcia34 said:

Because CJ won’t be there at 19. If the Raiders want a CB who can start from day one then that really limits their choices even more. CJ Henderson is one of them that can start right away. Fulton, AJ, Johnson imo are not plug and play guys they will need time. While I don’t like the value of Henderson at 12 he is really good and is built like a prototypical CB that they desire. 

I'll personally be shocked if we go anywhere other than WR at #12. If we're that enamored with Henderson (whom most are projecting #17 to Dallas) it'd only take a small trade up from #19 to #16 to go get him. (Which would probably only cost us #81 or #91) 

I don't expect Mike Mayock to be short sighted with his approach to the draft. We're not going to be able to fill every need in one offseason in year 2 of what's basically a complete roster rebuild. We swung for the fences with Byron Jones but missed and then declined to give up the draft capital/extension required to get Darius Slay. 

There are a few CB's with late first/early second round grades that will be on the board at #19 or if we decide to trade down. Guys like Kristian Fulton, AJ Terrell, Trevon Diggs, Jeff Gladney, Jaylon Johnson, and Noah Igbinohene. Are any of those guys going to be plug and play starters? Probably not. But was Travyon Mullen? Nope. We had to bring him along as the season went on. 

We'll have Mullen on one side, Joyner in the slot, and Apple (58 starts) who they gave starter money too competing with Lawson (59 starts) for the other CB spot. With young guys like Keisean Nixon and Isaiah Johnson competing for reps behind those guys. That's not the most ideal CB room but we'd still be in a position where we could bring a young talented CB along slowly throughout the season like we did with Mullen last year. 

[NYRaider]

1 minute ago, Totty said:

I think with Adams, you do that.  Game changer. 

Agreed. I'd swap #19 for Adams straight up if it got a deal done or one of our third round picks for Harris. IIRC though we're pretty much out of money so would we be able to make it happen from a cap perspective? 

2 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

Valid points but just a little correction... Adams does have a 5th year option we could pick up and Jets have to eat hthe signing bonus 3.5m/yr so we’d only pay 0.825M salary and $2.766m roster bonus, or 3.6M

So that drives his value up even more. But in a move like that where we'd be giving up significant draft capital to get him I'm sure we'd want to have a long-term extension in place at the time of the deal. 

[raidr4life]

 

[jimkelly02]

34 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

He gets dunked on so hard in the draft forum it's hilarious.

My favorite was when said this in regards to PFF:

Actually said he heard from "multiple interns" lol

Which I found hilarious... because he made the whole thing up from something I posted from Reddit over 2 years ago about them out sourcing to India.

You had me laughing on the floor in pain,,, legit physical pain! What a clown!  That’s one of the best stories I’ve heard in a minute.  Can’t believe YOUR Reddit post was his “multiple intern” citation.  

I can’t stand the guys at PFF’s arrogance and their ratings suck but they are a good source of data/stats.  
Cant wait to hear his comeback to this one.... except i already know what itll be same deflection, name calling/insults, and egotistical “your obsessed with me” nonsense.

Can I send you a beer as a thank you for making my day? Seriously!

[Darbsk]

2 hours ago, jimkelly02 said:

I understand all this... we def need a starting CB to pair with Mullen,,,, but does Mayock feel CB is a bigger need than WR? 

im really just trying to get peoples opinions here not argue.  I guess one could say Henderson is substantial better than Fulton, Terrell, Johnson, Diggs and The draft is so deep at WR we can get a guy at 19 or later.  

I just can’t see us liking Henderson to be frank, we’ve been actively signing high effort guys like Heath and trying to purge the roster of guys that tackle poorly or give less than expected effort and he’s the poorest tackler in the class at DB. I can see us taking a CB after a trade down and I think it’ll be a guy like Terrell or Johnson because of the fit. I can honestly see them trying to pair Clemson guys up. I think all the talk of 1st round receivers not living up to expectations was smoke and mirrors, I can see WR at 12 with DB at 19 or after a small trade down to end of 1 or start of 2.

[NYRaider]

20 minutes ago, Justwinning said:

Looking at the top of the draft, I don’t think teams know enough about Tua’s hip so I think nobody trades up for him. I can see Miami still rolling the dice on him considering they have so much draft capital the next few seasons. 

I could see the Chargers moving up to #3 to go get him. There's such a huge gap between Tu'a and Herbert as prospects, IMO. Going into a new stadium adding someone like Tu'a would get the fanbase excited plus they're in a position where he can take a redshirt year if needed because of Tyrod Taylor. With Mahomes in the division the difference between having a potentially elite young QB (Tu'a) versus a potentially above average young QB (Herbert) is huge. If they were to get Tu'a and he's as good as advertised they'd really only need to sure up their OL and would be in a position to be a super bowl contender with their weapons (Allen/Willliams/Ekeler/Henry) and their defense. 

[jimkelly02]

3 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Agreed. I'd swap #19 for Adams straight up if it got a deal done or one of our third round picks for Harris. IIRC though we're pretty much out of money so would we be able to make it happen from a cap perspective? 

So that drives his value up even more. But in a move like that where we'd be giving up significant draft capital to get him I'm sure we'd want to have a long-term extension in place at the time of the deal. 

Yeah we’d probably want an extension done prior to trade.... the advantage we’d have is he has a very low year 1 cap hit with us.... so if you use a signing bonus and roster bonus(es) you can still keep his ‘20 cap hit low.

so if we extend him for 4 years, 60 (#1 ranked safety APY @ 15m).... it’s really 5y, 63.6m total, a 12.72m APY.  He couldn’t force us to rip up his ‘20 contractual year because we have leverage with the ability to use 5th year option then 2 years of franchise tag.... so im sure he’d take an extension at #1 APY. 
 

DEPENDING how the deal gets structured he’d probably only have a cap hit of 6-10M this year then cap hit of 12-15M each year the next 4 years.

[NYRaider]

9 minutes ago, Darbsk said:

I just can’t see us liking Henderson to be frank, we’ve been actively signing high effort guys like Heath and trying to purge the roster of guys that tackle poorly or give less than expected effort and he’s the poorest tackler in the class at DB. I can see us taking a CB after a trade down and I think it’ll be a guy like Terrell or Johnson because of the fit. I can honestly see them trying to pair Clemson guys up. I think all the talk of 1st round receivers not living up to expectations was smoke and mirrors, I can see WR at 12 with DB at 19 or after a small trade down to end of 1 or start of 2.

I agree on Henderson not really fitting the mold of what Grudock is looking for. We were rumored to have been in love with Rock Ya-Shin during the pre-draft process last year and then selected Trayvon Mullen over Greedy Williams who had some of the same issues as Henderson. 

[jimkelly02]

10 minutes ago, Darbsk said:

I just can’t see us liking Henderson to be frank, we’ve been actively signing high effort guys like Heath and trying to purge the roster of guys that tackle poorly or give less than expected effort and he’s the poorest tackler in the class at DB. I can see us taking a CB after a trade down and I think it’ll be a guy like Terrell or Johnson because of the fit. I can honestly see them trying to pair Clemson guys up. I think all the talk of 1st round receivers not living up to expectations was smoke and mirrors, I can see WR at 12 with DB at 19 or after a small trade down to end of 1 or start of 2.

I think Your gonna be right.  Henderson doesn’t seem to me to be the type of player we want, and def not at that cost.  
We’ll likely go WR@12 (lamb or Jeudy) and then trade back and get a CB.  The nice thing of trading back is there’s several CBs I can see us liking (mainly Johnson and Terrell) so we’ll likely be able to get one guy we like.

[jimkelly02]

6 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

I could see the Chargers moving up to #3 to go get him. There's such a huge gap between Tu'a and Herbert as prospects, IMO. Going into a new stadium adding someone like Tu'a would get the fanbase excited plus they're in a position where he can take a redshirt year if needed because of Tyrod Taylor. With Mahomes in the division the difference between having a potentially elite young QB (Tu'a) versus a potentially above average young QB (Herbert) is huge. If they were to get Tu'a and he's as good as advertised they'd really only need to sure up their OL and would be in a position to be a super bowl contender with their weapons (Allen/Willliams/Ekeler/Henry) and their defense. 

All makes sense but can Miami’s management sit back and not get their QB? Assuming they think Tua is a franchise QB.  
I think this is why one team will trade up... one will think he’s a franchise QB and spend what it takes to secure that.  For management it’s a lot easier to keep your jobs when you got your franchise QB then when your still looking for him years down the road.

[jimkelly02]

So if it makes sense to trade back for a CB.... the question becomes how far do we trade back.  Where is Johnson/Terrell likely to go.  What’s the high and the low on them.

[jimkelly02]

So if it makes sense to trade back for a CB.... the question becomes how far do we trade back.  Where is Johnson/Terrell likely to go.  What’s the high and the low on them.

[NYRaider]

2 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

I think Your gonna be right.  Henderson doesn’t seem to me to be the type of player we want, and def not at that cost.  
We’ll likely go WR@12 (lamb or Jeudy) and then trade back and get a CB.  The nice thing of trading back is there’s several CBs I can see us liking (mainly Johnson and Terrell) so we’ll likely be able to get one guy we like.

If we do take a CB I agree that Johnson/Terrell seem to fit a lot more into the mold of a Grudock guy. I'd personally prefer Johnson and wouldn't be even slightly upset if he was the pick at 19. 

[jimkelly02]

14 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

If we do take a CB I agree that Johnson/Terrell seem to fit a lot more into the mold of a Grudock guy. I'd personally prefer Johnson and wouldn't be even slightly upset if he was the pick at 19. 

I would be upset with the pick not the player.  Horrible value imo.  I like him but not as much as Mullens. I feel we gotta trade down from 19.

id even say I’d rather trade up from 19 to land a guy who slid then take Johnson at 19.