2020 NFL Draft Thread

[big_palooka]

1 hour ago, oakdb36 said:

That's not what i got from the article. The range some of those CBs are projected in by various sources is huge. And there's no consensus on the order either. So basically anyone can be deemed a reach depending on who you're asking.

Fair point. I personally don't like any of the options in round 1. To me, it'd be reaching for a need at 19. 

[big_palooka]

1 hour ago, CWood21 said:

C.J. Henderson?

I like his coverage skills, but I'm not spending a top 25 pick on a guy who shows such a lack of effort in tackling and run support.

[CWood21]

3 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

I like his coverage skills, but I'm not spending a top 25 pick on a guy who shows such a lack of effort in tackling and run support.

How much of that was him "protecting" himself?  Either way, I'm not even sure he's going to even be available at 12.

[Frankie2Gunz]

3 minutes ago, Rich7sena said:

I disagree that edge rusher is an area the Raiders should address early in this draft. Between Crosby, Ferrell, and Nassib, I think the Raiders have what they want in terms of a core group of edge rushers. I believe the team is pretty much set on the interior defensive line, as well, with Hankins, Hurst, Collins, and Hall. Nassib has also shown he could rush from the inside, as well.

Drafting two receivers within the first two rounds is leveraging the draft and filling a dire need. This draft is filled to the gills with quality receivers--even if there isn't one elite prospect. Also, the value at corner is similarly in that late first, early second range. Conversely, this draft is noticeably weak with edge rushers and interior rushers.

The lower you go in the draft the less likely you're getting a worthwhile player. If the Raiders feel like they need a speedy starter at receiver, they must draft one early.

We were near the bottom of the NFL last season in terms of pass rush and have no quality depth behind Maxx or Ferrell.  Nassib has averaged 4.5 sacks a season over his 4 year career so he is hardly a pass rushing force, rather a well balanced rotational piece.   I like the signing but we need to more pressure than what he can bring. 

Drafting an elite edge rusher who can drop into coverage and bring heat from the LB position is certainly an area of need.  Not being able to get after the QB has been a huge problem for the Riders for over 10 years and the main reason our D is so terrible year after year.  

Our interior pass rushers have proven to be below average and the only wild card is Collins, who I like but is hardly a proven commodity.  We need to generate heat from the inside and outside, that is a given and I am not confidant what we currently have on our roster will push us into the top 15 in that area.  Being a top 15 team in terms of pressure and sacks will do wonders for the team as a whole.  

Drafting 2 WR's is a need, I am not debating that but investing that much capital in one position, that has been proven to be terrible value early in drafts is not the best move in my opinion.  We need to come away with 2 WR's, one of which being a speed guy but I would feel better if we spread out the wealth and waited until later (end of the 3rd round) to draft our 2nd WR.  CB is certainly a must and hopefully a trade down to late 1st early 2nd will provide good value for a CB.

[oakdb36]

35 minutes ago, massraider said:

I think several small deals is a lot more likely.

Trading back from 12 to 16-20. Trading back from 19 to 23-32.  Grabbing late round picks by trading down in the 3rd.

Getting a 2nd rounder is going to require going from 12 to the 20's.  That's a big drop.  Better be a guy in the 2nd you know you can get. 

It's also a LOT more unlikely to happen. Acquiring 2nd rounders are deals where top 3 teams drop to 7-10 range.  

Getting a 2nd rounder isn't on my wish list, I don't think it's realistic.

I don't know if it's not realistic. Trading out of the 1st from 19 for a 2nd and more doesn't seem any less likely than any other scenario. There is a bunch of teams without a 1st but with multiple 2nd. Anyway, this draft needs to be there already.

[SodakRaiders]

Hey everyone, had an account with the old website. First time posting on the new one.  I have been hearing a lot lately that Henry Ruggs is the most competitive player at Alabama and was the best locker room guy on the team.  He also had the highest wonderlic score out of the big 3 wide outs. This just sounds to me like a big time Mayock guy.  I should say that I would be happy with any of the big 3 but I am squarely in the Jeudy camp.  

I get the same vibe about Terrell from Clemson.  He just seems like a Mayock guy more so than CJ Henderson.  Easy to find highlights of him filling hard in run support.  I feel like Henderson is an ok tackler but I don't think he plays the right brand of football. 

I also get the vibe that we will take another wide out in the 3rd. Claypool maybe. Another big, fast, smart, wide out who loves to block.   

All of the picks last year had a few things in common.  Hard nosed guys that are smart and seem to love football.  No off the field issues and a lot of team captains. 

Getting pretty stoked for draft day!

Edited April 15, 2020 by SodakRaiders

[Rich7sena]

@Frankie2Gunz

"We were near the bottom of the NFL last season in terms of pass rush and have no quality depth behind Maxx or Ferrell.  Nassib has averaged 4.5 sacks a season over his 4 year career so he is hardly a pass rushing force, rather a well balanced rotational piece.   I like the signing but we need to more pressure than what he can bring. 

Drafting an elite edge rusher who can drop into coverage and bring heat from the LB position is certainly an area of need.  Not being able to get after the QB has been a huge problem for the Riders for over 10 years and the main reason our D is so terrible year after year."

The Raiders have made their bed with Ferrell as an "elite edge rusher", and I doubt they're ready to give up on last year's 4th overall pick regardless of what I think of him as a player. Nassib has been a part-time player for the majority of his career and I think he has the talent to start on a near full time basis. He's not an elite pass rusher, but he's good and probably better than Ferrell at this point at their respective careers. Crosby has the upside to be a force off the edge.

I disagree with the need to draft an edge rusher who can drop in coverage is "certainly an area of need." Guenther rarely drops his edge rushes into coverage and many of the top defensive lines (including San Francisco) don't, either. More important, you're not putting a name to who you think the Raiders draft over a receiver or corner. Are you suggesting the team mortgaging this and future drafts to trade up to select Chase Young? Is there another player you think the is an "elite" edge rusher? I don't see another player outside Young who fits that description. I certainly don't believe in Chaisson to be an impact player, especially early in his career.

"Drafting 2 WR's is a need, I am not debating that but investing that much capital in one position, that has been proven to be terrible value early in drafts is not the best move in my opinion.  We need to come away with 2 WR's, one of which being a speed guy but I would feel better if we spread out the wealth and waited until later (end of the 3rd round) to draft our 2nd WR.  CB is certainly a must and hopefully a trade down to late 1st early 2nd will provide good value for a CB."

Like I said, you need to put some names to who you're talking about if you're argument is going to make any sense. Who will be there at the end of the third round? The Raiders have a clear need and this draft has a clear strength. It's that simple. The pressing need is at receiver and corner. Drafting two receivers and one corner is better than drafting an edge rusher and/or an interior rusher because 1) receiver and corner are clear needs in need of immediate starters, and 2) this draft is strong at those positions early.

And regarding the comment on first round receiver value: that certainly wasn't the case in 2014, 2011, and 2010. Every draft is different.

Edited April 15, 2020 by Rich7sena

[Frankie2Gunz]

11 minutes ago, Rich7sena said:

@Frankie2Gunz

"We were near the bottom of the NFL last season in terms of pass rush and have no quality depth behind Maxx or Ferrell.  Nassib has averaged 4.5 sacks a season over his 4 year career so he is hardly a pass rushing force, rather a well balanced rotational piece.   I like the signing but we need to more pressure than what he can bring. 

Drafting an elite edge rusher who can drop into coverage and bring heat from the LB position is certainly an area of need.  Not being able to get after the QB has been a huge problem for the Riders for over 10 years and the main reason our D is so terrible year after year."

The Raiders have made their bed with Ferrell as an "elite edge rusher", and I doubt they're ready to give up on last year's 4th overall pick regardless of what I think of him as a player. Nassib has been a part-time player for the majority of his career and I think he has the talent to start on a near full time basis. He's not an elite pass rusher, but he's good and probably better than Ferrell at this point at their respective careers. Crosby has the upside to be a force off the edge.

I agree with the need to draft an edge rusher who can drop in coverage is "certainly an area of need." Guenther rarely drops his edge rushes into coverage and many of the top defensive lines (including San Francisco) don't, either. More important, you're not putting a name to who you think the Raiders draft over a receiver or corner. Are you suggesting the team mortgaging this and future drafts to trade up to select Chase Young? Is there another player you think the is an "elite" edge rusher? I don't see another player outside Young who fits that description. I certainly don't believe in Chaisson to be an impact player, especially early in his career.

"Drafting 2 WR's is a need, I am not debating that but investing that much capital in one position, that has been proven to be terrible value early in drafts is not the best move in my opinion.  We need to come away with 2 WR's, one of which being a speed guy but I would feel better if we spread out the wealth and waited until later (end of the 3rd round) to draft our 2nd WR.  CB is certainly a must and hopefully a trade down to late 1st early 2nd will provide good value for a CB."

Like I said, you need to put some names to who you're talking about if you're argument is going to make any sense. Who will be there at the end of the third round? The Raiders have a clear need and this draft has a clear strength. It's that simple. The pressing need is at receiver and corner. Drafting two receivers and one corner is better than drafting an edge rusher and/or an interior rusher because 1) receiver and corner are clear needs in need of immediate starters, and 2) this draft is strong at those positions early.

To drop some names on you would imply I have done tremendous research on these prospects, I have not.  I have never claimed to be a draft expert and I only like to comment on things I am fairly certain about.  

I am more of a philosophy/strategy/value based evaluator rather than a specific name evaluator.  

In terms of pass rushers that fit the mold of what I am talking about Chaisson is a player who I have looked at and I like his game.  He would fit the mold of that Edge/LB piece that can bring the heat and not be a liability in coverage.  We can move him around and utilize his unique versatility.  If he is there at 19 I think he would bring good value to this team.  

Trading up for Chase young would not be a good move because we would have to give up tremendous capital and he is strictly a 4/3 DE.  I have faith that Mayock will put those 3rd round pics to good use and improve the depth and quality of the overall team.  

 

[Rich7sena]

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

To drop some names on you would imply I have done tremendous research on these prospects, I have not.  I have never claimed to be a draft expert and I only like to comment on things I am fairly certain about.  

I am more of a philosophy/strategy/value based evaluator rather than a specific name evaluator.  

In terms of pass rushers that fit the mold of what I am talking about Chaisson is a player who I have looked at and I like his game.  He would fit the mold of that Edge/LB piece that can bring the heat and not be a liability in coverage.  We can move him around and utilize his unique versatility.  If he is there at 19 I think he would bring good value to this team.  

Trading up for Chase young would not be a good move because we would have to give up tremendous capital and he is strictly a 4/3 DE.  I have faith that Mayock will put those 3rd round pics to good use and improve the depth and quality of the overall team.  

 

The bolded is a massive issue in your argument. It's easy to say the Raiders should have drafted position X from a team-building standpoint, but what if position X is not available?

Chaisson, to me, is not a difference-maker off the edge. He offers the most value as a Jamie Collins, Whitney Mercilus-type player who can play off the line in a few different ways (Dion Jordon did this for the Raiders last season). But I simply don't value that type of piece on the roster above a receiver or a corner in the first round. In fact, there are a few players I think that can fill that role later in the draft (Uche comes to mind).

Team building can't occur in a vacuum. You eventually have to draft pieces that round out a roster--there can only be 11 guys on the field at a time.

[agarcia34]

WR Denzel Mims to be selected higher than some expect?

When I’ve done radio interviews around the country over the past few weeks, the host continues to ask me if I expect any surprises in the draft.  There’s one that continues to be a distinct possibility in talking with people around the league – Baylor receiver Denzel Mims could be selected much earlier than most expect.

One league source told me yesterday many teams look at Mims as the “complete package” at receiver, and why not? He’s sturdier than Jerry Jeudy and Henry Ruggs, faster than CeeDee Lamb and just as good coming away with the contested grab as Justin Jefferson.

Some relay the concern that Mims played in the Big 12, the same conference as Lamb. And while that may be true, Mims turned in three days of tremendous Senior Bowl practices.

So, where could Mims end up? I’m told both the Oakland Raiders and Denver Broncos are very high on Mims. The Raiders are expected to take receivers early and often in the draft’s opening rounds. And while the consensus has Denver taking Ruggs if he’s available, I’m told the team is just as high on Mims.

And while there is a belief that Mims could be selected earlier than most project, there is also an opinion that if he’s not chosen by the 26th pick, he could slide into the top part of Round 2.

[Devilshark69]

2 hours ago, Rich7sena said:

Ruggs, Reagor, and Hamler are the top speed prospects, and I think they'll be gone by at least the mid-second round so I see what he's saying there. Mims is a wild-card because he tested as having elite speed, but it didn't seem like the offense stretched the field vertically very often (supposedly the quarterback could not drive the ball down field).

Ideally, I would like the Raiders to trade back, acquire a second-round pick, and draft two receivers and a corner with their first three picks. The biggest issue on the offense isn't necessarily one receiver, it's quality. Williams and Renfrow, to me, are the only receivers who I predict will be on the roster next year, and they're both in that WR 3/4 range.

mims timed well, so did Jefferson. and don't sleep on DuVernay either. and of all mentioned DuVernay is most likely to be there in the 3rd.

[Devilshark69]

5'10" 200 lbs, 4.39 40, and 106/1386/9 his senior year. if we take lamb at 12 this is my guy in the 3rd, if we took mims/Jefferson at 19, this is my guy in the 3rd. just as good as any of the other burners imo. and maybe the best after the catch as far as physicality.   especially since the other 3 are in a bad pick range for us.(no 2nd rnd pick.lol)

[Devilshark69]

I guess im all in on big 12 receivers this year.lol (lamb, mims,duvernay) and thats ok all had over 1000 yds and 8 tds.lol

Edited April 15, 2020 by Devilshark69

[big_palooka]

1 hour ago, CWood21 said:

How much of that was him "protecting" himself?  Either way, I'm not even sure he's going to even be available at 12.

Agree, I think Jax takes him. He was being called out nationally in after week 1 in August for his poor effort in tackling. So if he took that criticism and decided to protect himself the entire season, I guess, maybe... but still skeptical. 

He benefits from a lack of top talent in this class. We saw Greed Williams drop to round 2 a year ago for similar challenges. Funny CJ is considered a top 10 pick now.

[Rich7sena]

@agarcia34 I’m really high on Mims—huge upside, and I don’t really see a low floor. My comp for him is DJ Chark who I think is on the verge of being an elite receiver.