carrolljcmc Posted May 31, 2019 Author Share Posted May 31, 2019 40 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said: This may surprise some but I put Troy Aikman up there, would he have been able to win 3 super bowls or be the same HOF'r he is on another team that wasn't as loaded? I personally don't think so That's why I have him #2, and Bradshaw #1. Bradshaw had more skill players (Swann, Stallworth, Harris, Bleier, Grossman, Cunningham) than Aikman (Irvin, Smith, Novacek, (Harper was OVERRATED)), but didn't have the same O-Line as him, but Aikman didn't have the Steel Curtain defense that Bradshaw had. The only reason Bradshaw has 1 more ring than Aikman is because Jackie Smith forgot how to catch. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 The modern day equivalent of Joe Namath is Joe Flacco. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lomaxgrUK Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 On 30/05/2019 at 5:01 AM, kingseanjohn said: 1a. Namath 1b. Elway 3. Aikman ** Wonders how anyone can put Elway in the same breath as Namath ** ** Sees Pat Mahomes sig ** ** No longer needs an explanation ** Absolutely laughable that anyone can call John Elway overrated. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingseanjohn Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 1 hour ago, lomaxgrUK said: ** Wonders how anyone can put Elway in the same breath as Namath ** ** Sees Pat Mahomes sig ** ** No longer needs an explanation ** Absolutely laughable that anyone can call John Elway overrated. How is he not? 16 game average: 502 attempts, 286 completions, 57% completion, 3,565 yards, 21 touchdowns, 16 interceptions, a 79.9 quarterback rating Playoffs: 22 games, 651 attempts, 355 completions, 54.5% completion, 4,964 yards, 27 touchdowns, 21 interceptions, a 79.7 quarterback rating Superbowls: 5 games, 152 attempts, 76 completions, 50% completion, 1,128 yards, three touchdowns, eight interceptions, a 59.3 quarterback rating It took Terrell Davis and a pretty good supporting cast to carry Elway to those two Super Bowl wins. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
game3525 Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 Yeah, Elway is pretty overrated even when you adjust his numbers to the era. He really didn't play like a top level QB till the mid-90s. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightime Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 Watching film of Elway he looked pretty amazing. But he certainly never was backed up by good stats. Easy to see why fans today call him overrated. He won 1987 MVP but did not win first team all-pro, that honor went to Joe Montana 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 (edited) John Elway finished top 10 in passer rating only 4 times out of his 16 career seasons. '93, '94, '96, and '97. Not once in the first decade of his career. He's overrated when you consider that his name if often thrown up there with historical greats as if he's some top 10 sort of guy. I don't think I"d put him in the top 25 QBs all time. Edited May 31, 2019 by Danger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carrolljcmc Posted May 31, 2019 Author Share Posted May 31, 2019 35 minutes ago, Danger said: John Elway finished top 10 in passer rating only 4 times out of his 16 career seasons. '93, '94, '96, and '97. Not once in the first decade of his career. He's overrated when you consider that his name if often thrown up there with historical greats as if he's some top 10 sort of guy. I don't think I"d put him in the top 25 QBs all time. Set yourself up with this one. Let's see this list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 1 minute ago, carrolljcmc said: Set yourself up with this one. Let's see this list. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1983/passing.htm You can search by year, then sort by rating. 83: 54.9 (27th) 84: 76.8 (17th) 85: 70.2 (17th) 86: 79.0 (11th) 87: 83.4 (11th) 88: 71.4 (18th) 89: 73.7 (17th) 90: 78.5 (14th) 91: 75.4 (19th) 92: 65.7 (20th) 93: 92.8 (3rd) 94: 85.7 (4th) 95: 86.4 (14th) 96: 89.2 (4th) 97: 87.5 (7th)98: 93.0 (5th)* I missed '98 admittedly. Thought he already retired. That said, doesn't change the fact that for the first 2/3 of his career, he was middling at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carrolljcmc Posted May 31, 2019 Author Share Posted May 31, 2019 21 minutes ago, Danger said: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1983/passing.htm You can search by year, then sort by rating. 83: 54.9 (27th) 84: 76.8 (17th) 85: 70.2 (17th) 86: 79.0 (11th) 87: 83.4 (11th) 88: 71.4 (18th) 89: 73.7 (17th) 90: 78.5 (14th) 91: 75.4 (19th) 92: 65.7 (20th) 93: 92.8 (3rd) 94: 85.7 (4th) 95: 86.4 (14th) 96: 89.2 (4th) 97: 87.5 (7th)98: 93.0 (5th)* I missed '98 admittedly. Thought he already retired. That said, doesn't change the fact that for the first 2/3 of his career, he was middling at best. That's not your top 25 QB's of all time.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 Just now, carrolljcmc said: That's not your top 25 QB's of all time.. Lets go down the list of those playing right now. Tom Brady Aaron Rodgers Drew Brees Ben Roethlisberger Russell Wilson Matt Ryan Andrew Luck Philip Rivers Amongst many others I expect to overtake Elway by the end of their respective careers. Just going to list some other off the top of my head. Brett Favre Peyton Manning Kurt Warner Steve Young Joe Montana Roger Staubach Otto Graham Johnny Unitas Dan Marino Dan Fouts Bart Starr Sonny Jurgensen Are all QBs I would absolutely say were better in their era than John Elway was in his. There are quite a number more that have an argument such as: YA Tittle Warren Moon Len Dawson Randall Cunningham Jim Kelly Probably others as well. But looking at it I'll probably have him somewhere between 20-25. I've seen lists with him in the top 5 all time, which is outright disgraceful. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carrolljcmc Posted May 31, 2019 Author Share Posted May 31, 2019 1 minute ago, Danger said: Lets go down the list of those playing right now. Tom Brady Aaron Rodgers Drew Brees Ben Roethlisberger Russell Wilson Matt Ryan Andrew Luck Philip Rivers Amongst many others I expect to overtake Elway by the end of their respective careers. Just going to list some other off the top of my head. Brett Favre Peyton Manning Kurt Warner Steve Young Joe Montana Roger Staubach Otto Graham Johnny Unitas Dan Marino Dan Fouts Bart Starr Sonny Jurgensen Are all QBs I would absolutely say were better in their era than John Elway was in his. There are quite a number more that have an argument such as: YA Tittle Warren Moon Len Dawson Randall Cunningham Jim Kelly Probably others as well. But looking at it I'll probably have him somewhere between 20-25. I've seen lists with him in the top 5 all time, which is outright disgraceful. I agree about the top 5 all time, definitely not top 5. I will respectfully disagree about Matt Ryan, stats alone can't be the basis for ranking players/greats. Jay Cutler had better stats than Aikman, and while I feel Aikman is overrated, I don't believe Cutler is better than Aikman by any stretch. I won't/can't speak to Bart Starr, Otto Graham, Sonny Jurgensen, Johnny Unitas, YA Tittle, or Len Dawson as I've never personally seen them play, nor have I taken the time to see if there is film on them, all I have is stats, legend, and stories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 2 minutes ago, carrolljcmc said: I agree about the top 5 all time, definitely not top 5. I will respectfully disagree about Matt Ryan, stats alone can't be the basis for ranking players/greats. Jay Cutler had better stats than Aikman, and while I feel Aikman is overrated, I don't believe Cutler is better than Aikman by any stretch. I won't/can't speak to Bart Starr, Otto Graham, Sonny Jurgensen, Johnny Unitas, YA Tittle, or Len Dawson as I've never personally seen them play, nor have I taken the time to see if there is film on them, all I have is stats, legend, and stories. It's basically impossible to do that. All in all the most straightforward metric to use is how does their statistics fair compared to their peers? Elway really didn't play anywhere near HoF level until 93. Then he had a good 5-6 year run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
childofpudding Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 1) Elway. Often considered top 10 all-time (fringe top 5 by some) and I honestly don't understand why. I was never terribly impressed with him when I watched him. He could throw it really hard, but just wasn't that accurate. 2) Namath. All about what he said before SB3 than anything. Aikman and Bradshaw I don't think are as overrated. They are properly rated in the top 20 vicinity. I don't think there are many that consider them to be near the top of the all-time greats. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 I voted Namath. Guaranteeing a Super Bowl win is a bigger part of his legacy than actually winning the Super Bowl one time. That and drunkenly trying to kiss Suzy Kolber. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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