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Hail Mary

Does our defence look as good to anybody else as it does to me?

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19 hours ago, Cheesehawk said:

While I agree with what you are saying about Martinez, he is a stud and is very underrated by Packers fans, I think I would still take Roquan Smith over him. 

Roquan has HOF potential and while he is fast, its not because of his speed. 

I think it's more the case that he's overrated by our fans, because our ILB position has been so weak for the past few years that a solid but not spectacular player like Martinez comes across looking way better by comparison, when in truth, we should not have been so weak at the position in the first place.

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13 minutes ago, Gopher Trace said:

I think it's more the case that he's overrated by our fans, because our ILB position has been so weak for the past few years that a solid but not spectacular player like Martinez comes across looking way better by comparison, when in truth, we should not have been so weak at the position in the first place.

"Solid but not spectacular".  I think that is a great definition of Martinez.  Spectacular means he needs a couple more "splash" plays, right?  INT's, caused fumbles...etc.

Look, I dig him.  I think he's amazing for a young ILB who wasn't a high draft pick.

I thought I'd post these first 3 years worth of stats for the guy who I think is the best in the NFL, Kuechly, and Martinez.

Through three years...

Blake Martinez

2016- games= 13  Tackles=47  INT=1  SACK=1

2017-games=16  Tackles-=144  INT=1  SACK=1

2018-games=16  Tackles= 144 INT=0  SACK=5

Luke Kuechly

2012-games=16  Tackles=164  INT=2  SACK=1

2013-games=16  Tackles=156 INT=4  SACK=2

2014=games=16  Tackles=153  INT=1  SACK=3

Blake has a few tackles less, 5 less INTS, but one more sack.  Playing in 3 fewer games.

Yah, he's a really nice player, especially for a 4'th round pick, versus a high #1.

Funny thing, when you start looking at Kuechly lately, his games per year are going down, his tackles are going down.  Still showing good coverage stats.

I think that Blakes best ability so far has been availability.  He played through a tough ankle injury last year.  Pettine used him nicely to generate pass rush, and he produced big time.  I'm pretty excited to see what he will do in year two of the Pettine scheme.  If the Kuechly stats showed me anything, it is that you can get about 4 really good productive years out of your ILB before he starts missing some games.  So this could be a huge year for Blake.  And...not sure if that is necessarily true for all good ILB's...just looking at Luke.

 

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I feel better about our passrush/safties thats for sure. No more Brice is a very good thing. Question marks are depth at Saftey, and depth at ILB. I hope Kevvy Kingly stays healthy, cause we're better with him on the field.

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On 6/23/2019 at 6:58 PM, Outpost31 said:

Martinez could have 10 sacks, 3 interceptions, 13 passes defended and 4 forced fumbles and people would still assume he's not a playmaker because he didn't have a good 40 time. 

People act like speed is synonymous with making plays. 

Literally 97% of people on this subforum would take Roquan Smith over Darius Leonard right now because Leonard ran a 4.7 40 yard dash.  Leonard just had arguably the best rookie season for an ILB of all-time, but everybody's still expecting Roquan Smith to be a nightmare for 10 seasons because he's fast. 

There is nothing Darius Leonard can do physically that Martinez can't do physically. 

Leonard:
6'2, 234, 34.5 arm length, 10.25 hand, 4.7 40, 1.69 10 yard split, 2.77 20 yard split, 4.63 20 yard shuttle, 7.37 3 cone, 38 vertical, 10 ft 8 inch broad, bench press 20 reps. 

Martinez:
6'2, 237, 31.5 arm, 11 hand, 4.71 40, 1.61 10 yard split, 2.73 20 yard split, 4.2 20 yard shuttle, 6.98 3 cone, 28.5 vertical, 9 ft 9 inch broad, 22 bench press reps, 27 wonderlic. 

So I guess I was wrong.  Leonard can jump 10 inches higher and broad jump a foot shorter.  And he's .01 seconds slower. 

Leonard forced 4 fumbles in one year of play (plus 2 INTs). Martinez has forced 1 fumble in 3 years. Let's not have this argument. Martinez is a good, reliable player who has 2 INTs and 1 FF in 3 years of starting LB play. That's what he is.

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1 hour ago, Gopher Trace said:

I think it's more the case that he's overrated by our fans, because our ILB position has been so weak for the past few years that a solid but not spectacular player like Martinez comes across looking way better by comparison, when in truth, we should not have been so weak at the position in the first place.

This is how I look at Martinez: 

Martinez is AJ Hawk except that Hawk was drafted 5th overall and Martinez was drafted in the 4th round. So as fans, we viewed Hawk as a disappointment because he never lived up to being a top-10 pick, and Martinez is slightly overvalued because he was a day 3 pick that "hit" -- meaning he became a reliable starter in the NFL. If you reversed their draft slots, we'd be view Hawk like Martinez and vice versa. 

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Might be time for a film watch on Martinez.  My impressions of him from watching the games live and occasionally noticing him is he gets sold a bit short on here.  He's not a Kuechly-type player, but he's a damn fine ILB still.  At least I think so.  Should probably check on that.

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21 hours ago, packfanfb said:

Leonard forced 4 fumbles in one year of play (plus 2 INTs). Martinez has forced 1 fumble in 3 years. Let's not have this argument. Martinez is a good, reliable player who has 2 INTs and 1 FF in 3 years of starting LB play. That's what he is.

Very much agree.  Except that I want to see if Leonard's stats are sustainable.  Blakes are...and I think given his second year in the system, we could see more splash plays out of him.

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We're thinner at DB than ILB IMHO and I suspect that depth will be addressed next year if Hollman looks like a project, Brown doesn't continue his ascent, and/or our Safety depth is as thin as we fear. ILB really shouldn't be THAT much of a concern. Sure, I'm sympathetic towards questions around Burks, but given our current ILB group I can't help but think someone's going to emerge from that group. We've heard some good things about James Crawford so far and IIRC, we discussed the possibility of Fackrell moving inside in certain packages. Additionally, we ranked 22nd against the run last year, which was a by-product of our battered DL moreso than the lack of depth at ILB.

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On 6/22/2019 at 7:54 AM, Golfman said:

You're missing out best defender: Kenny Clark. Not to mention the guys on either side of him in Daniels and Lowry who are both good players. There are also a few guys who could make the second year leap in Burks and Jackson. 

Your bigger point, yes this defense looks poised to make a big leap, ON PAPER. Let's hope it translates to pads. 

Excellent point. If the team can put things together, and work as a team, great. But the Smiths and Amos have never worked with their teammates as of yet in a real game. That is when it will count. Knowing the tendencies of a teammate, knowing they will see the same thing as you and adjust to meet the threat comes with time. So, if everyone stays healthy, expect there to be a period of adjustment. All we can hope for is that the team will improve defensively as the season moves along. 

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2 minutes ago, Joe said:

We're thinner at DB than ILB IMHO

Really ? I'd say the opposite is true.
Alexander, Williams, King, Jackson, Brown, Amos, Savage, Jones...... all have some talent.

At ILB there is Martinez, Burks and who else ? Summers, Sheldon, Ramsey, Crawford ? They look more like special teamers and short-term additions, to me. Maybe one of them will make a jump, but imo, the Packers are wafer-thin there.

I think Safety could be addressed again in 2020 (so could CB for that matter), but ILB is thinner, especially if Oren Burks doesn't pan out. Losing Martinez to injury would have more effect on  ILB position than (for example) losing a starter at CB or Safety.

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from The Athletic

Jaire Alexander is embracing his role as the No. 1 cornerback. A year ago, Alexander arrived in Green Bay with all of the physical tools to shadow the opposing team’s best receiver each week. But it was his mental toughness against elite players that was most impressive for a rookie. He relished the opportunity to defend the likes of Julio Jones and Stefon Diggs and never doubted his abilities even after allowing a few completions. Alexander has tangled with Davante Adams all spring during OTAs and minicamp. He followed Adams around the formation, from the perimeter to the slot to the flex, and battled at the top of every route. Watching those two hounding each other has been a treat.

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23 hours ago, OneTwoSixFive said:

Crawford ? They look more like special teamers and short-term additions, to me.

from The Athletic

It seems as if the coaches really like inside linebacker James Crawford, a former undrafted rookie from Illinois. Crawford made the 53-man roster last season because of his special-teams ability and fluctuated between inside linebacker and outside linebacker all season. For now, Crawford has settled in alongside Martinez and Oren Burks, cycling through the first-string defense at times during 11-on-11 drills. Given his pedigree on special teams, Crawford should make the team again especially if he continues to progress from scrimmage.

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27 minutes ago, Shanedorf said:

from The Athletic

It seems as if the coaches really like inside linebacker James Crawford, a former undrafted rookie from Illinois. Crawford made the 53-man roster last season because of his special-teams ability and fluctuated between inside linebacker and outside linebacker all season. For now, Crawford has settled in alongside Martinez and Oren Burks, cycling through the first-string defense at times during 11-on-11 drills. Given his pedigree on special teams, Crawford should make the team again especially if he continues to progress from scrimmage.

Gute sang Crawford praises at his presser at the end of last year.  

Going from memory...the question was asked of him which of the young guys has most impressed him.  Went straight to Crawford.  Then talked about Lancaster.

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6 hours ago, Shanedorf said:

Martinez the only Packer to show up on these 2018 lists, 2019 needs to be better populated with Green & Gold

"Defensive Defeats" , from Football Outsiders

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2019/2018-defeats

Impossible.  Blake Martinez does not make plays.  Even more impossible he had more passing game defeats than Bobby Wagner.  Impossible.

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