Bitcoin

[MacReady]

1 hour ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

If you're maxing out your tax advantaged space (401k, IRA, HSA, etc. etc.) and have a few extra dollars you wouldn't mind gambling, yeah that's no big deal since you're all set anyway. But I think people who should be saving in more established markets are thinking they'll get rich overnight with it, and that's an issue.

No, they should all do that because if they all do that I make more money.  Everybody should buy bitcoin.  And Litecoin.  And Ethereum. 

[Calibucsfan]

I don't get the people who tell others to invest in stocks instead.

Like if these people are pouring their life savings or selling their car to go into bitcoin, then I would understand it. But a few hundred dollars to spend? Why not?

At the end of the day, if you want to make any real money with anything, you have to be willing to take risk.

Taking "minimal" risk and safe paths is smart, but also boring and makes you very little.

Again, if you got $500 to throw into bitcoin, and that amount will not hurt you if you lose it, then why the hell not?

People spend x3 that on a Vegas weekend.........why not put it into something that can potentially give you an insane return?


All I am saying is, since I started hoarding bitcoin in 2015, I had all my friends tell me to not "waste" my money. Well now some of them are going into bitcoin themselves, and the rest have gone quiet, and I have not looked back since.

The key is to have zero expectations and have fun watching it go up and down. I treat it as a hobby.

Edited September 5, 2017 by Calibucsfan

[jrry32]

20 minutes ago, Calibucsfan said:

Taking "minimal" risk and safe paths is smart, but also boring and makes you very little.

It's made me quite a lot, and when we're talking 15-20 years, it can make other people quite a lot as well.

As I said, I don't care if you want to gamble with a few bucks here and there, but you shouldn't be neglecting a real investment portfolio to play the Bitcoin game.

[Calibucsfan]

1 hour ago, jrry32 said:

It's made me quite a lot, and when we're talking 15-20 years, it can make other people quite a lot as well.

As I said, I don't care if you want to gamble with a few bucks here and there, but you shouldn't be neglecting a real investment portfolio to play the Bitcoin game.

Well, everyone has a different definition of "quite a lot".
But I get you. Ya at the end of the day, treat bitcoin investment as casino money.

[ramssuperbowl99]

10 hours ago, jrry32 said:

It's made me quite a lot, and when we're talking 15-20 years, it can make other people quite a lot as well.

As I said, I don't care if you want to gamble with a few bucks here and there, but you shouldn't be neglecting a real investment portfolio to play the Bitcoin game.

I saw this article a while back, and while I think the rest of this guy's blog is super pretentious and off-putting, it was kind of flooring:

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-simple-math-behind-early-retirement/

 

He only used a 5% return, which is pretty conservative. People are way too focused on the return of their investments instead of the percentage of their income they are saving, which is sad because pretty much whatever you invest in, unless your a real pro, the percentage of income you save is really the only thing you can control. 

[Bonanza23]

So what broker are you guys " investing"?  And how can you prove their viability?

[ET80]

On 9/5/2017 at 7:00 AM, ramssuperbowl99 said:

I saw this article a while back, and while I think the rest of this guy's blog is super pretentious and off-putting, it was kind of flooring:

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-simple-math-behind-early-retirement/

 

He only used a 5% return, which is pretty conservative. People are way too focused on the return of their investments instead of the percentage of their income they are saving, which is sad because pretty much whatever you invest in, unless your a real pro, the percentage of income you save is really the only thing you can control. 

My strategy is to pump s bit of my annual increases into my 401k. If I get a 5% increase, 3% goes right into my 401k.

Probably not the best thread to mention this, but a 401k with a company match is your best investment tool. You're basically doubling your money right when you contribute. 

[ramssuperbowl99]

12 minutes ago, EliteTexan80 said:

My strategy is to pump s bit of my annual increases into my 401k. If I get a 5% increase, 3% goes right into my 401k.

Probably not the best thread to mention this, but a 401k with a company match is your best investment tool. You're basically doubling your money right when you contribute. 

That's going to get you a long way. You keep doing that until your tax advantaged space is maxed out, and you'll end up a millionaire. It will take a while, but you'll be able to retire comfortably and not have to worry about stuff.

To circle it around to bitcoin, part of my distrust for it and any kind of crypto-currency is that there is this whole subculture of neckbeards who think it's a get rich quick cheat code.

[ET80]

30 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

To circle it around to bitcoin, part of my distrust for it and any kind of crypto-currency is that there is this whole subculture of neckbeards who think it's a get rich quick cheat code.

This, right here. Also, nobody seems to know what it is. It's a valuable asset, but WHY is it a valuable asset? What are the differences between Bitcoin, Litecoin, Ethereum? Is it currency...or a precious metal...or a Ponzi?

This has the look and feel of the whole dotcom bubble. People rushing in to invest in it because somebody made a ton of money on it, not sure how they made that money - so, when the original investors start cashing out and the prices lower, will those still holding coins know what to do to correct the market?

If you're investing in any cryptocurrency, good for you. Keep an eye on it, know when to cash out.

[ET80]

https://www-bloomberg-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/www.bloomberg.com/gadfly/amp/articles/2017-09-06/seventy-eight-billion-reasons-why-bitcoin-s-the-new-gold#footnote-1504662872504

Here's an interesting article - a lot of the talk is well over my head, but it summarizes what I was referencing to earlier - Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies as a tangible asset (like Gold, Oil) only without actually being an "asset" like Gold, Oil.

One part of this that caught my eye - the biggest weakness of cryptocurrencies is the main reason people flock to it, the unregulated nature of it. Sure, a government can't get its hands on it, but that means you're not protected if an exchange just goes belly up, or if a hacker manages to steal coins from an exchange. You're simply out that money.

The reward offsets the risk, but the risk is there.

[TankWilliams]

On 9/5/2017 at 11:27 PM, Bonanza23 said:

So what broker are you guys " investing"?  And how can you prove their viability?

Are you refering to which wallet?  There aren't any brokers, you aren't investing in specific companies who are putting together a fund.  The wallet I use is coinbase, though I may switch to something a bit more private, but they are a fairly reputable wallet that works pretty well.  

[wackywabbit]

On 9/4/2017 at 11:27 AM, HorizontoZenith said:

That I'd certainly agree with. 

And this is all I'm getting at.  Dumping hundreds into stocks a week isn't a bad idea.  Dumping hundreds into cryptocurrency probably is.  Putting 100-1000 dollars into the stock market isn't that great an idea (low returns).  Doing that with cryptocurrency probably is. 

Stock market = low returns?

That's not true at all. Pretty warped view of "low returns" to say so. Even after inflation, the stock market investments typically double over 10 years. Having a diversified investment in the market is usually the best place to have money over a sufficiently large time interval. 

[wackywabbit]

Bitcoin's market cap is currently over $70 billion. Circulation will also increase a bit, decreasing the value of those currently in circulation, but lets ignore that. 

For another 1000 fold increase, bitcoin's market cap would have to be $70 trillion. Rough 3.75 times the GDP of the entire United states, and close to the GDP of the entire world (2014 estimate). So yea, that's basically certain to not happen anytime in the next few decades. No holding is close to that scale.

Better bet that Amazon breaks the trillion dollar market cap mark well before bitcoin. 

Edited September 10, 2017 by wackywabbit

[incognito_man]

On 9/6/2017 at 8:41 AM, EliteTexan80 said:

This, right here. Also, nobody seems to know what it is. It's a valuable asset, but WHY is it a valuable asset? What are the differences between Bitcoin, Litecoin, Ethereum? Is it currency...or a precious metal...or a Ponzi?

Well, the obvious answer is the value is in the size of the network and length of the blockchain. This seems to be a technology that may benefit early movers more than other techs. I don't own any bitcoin, but I have an appreciation for the tech and follow it (have read the whitepapers, etc).

If you are legit asking what the differences are, I could try my best to explain my understanding of it - but am thinking you might be asking rhetorically

[ET80]

9 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

Well, the obvious answer is the value is in the size of the network and length of the blockchain. This seems to be a technology that may benefit early movers more than other techs. I don't own any bitcoin, but I have an appreciation for the tech and follow it (have read the whitepapers, etc).

If you are legit asking what the differences are, I could try my best to explain my understanding of it - but am thinking you might be asking rhetorically

You're right, rhetoric. 

I've always maintained that Blockchain is FAR more valuable than the actual coin. The money movers (Visa, MC, Discover, AMEX) are working to apply the same sort of logic to their networks.