ET80 Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 16 hours ago, incognito_man said: A placeholder for bartering illegal substances seems kind of useless to me, why would anyone ever do that? Well, better stated, why would anyone intelligent ever do that? As you said earlier, there is washing options, and many of those who engage in high volume crime (systemic kidnapping, drugs by the kilo, guns by the crate) have those washing systems in place. (In cash, at least - and it sounds like coin has tedious systems to exploit, at the least). You illustrate how it's very hard to wash a coin - but as the old saying goes, "you build a better mousetrap, all you do is make a smarter mouse." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 8 hours ago, EliteTexan80 said: As you said earlier, there is washing options, and many of those who engage in high volume crime (systemic kidnapping, drugs by the kilo, guns by the crate) have those washing systems in place. (In cash, at least - and it sounds like coin has tedious systems to exploit, at the least). You illustrate how it's very hard to wash a coin - but as the old saying goes, "you build a better mousetrap, all you do is make a smarter mouse." the point remains that the world will always know what coins are associated with a particular crime. It stands to reason than the places offering services that allow folks to anonymously exchange currencies and/or "tumble" the coins will flat out reject accepting coins involved in particularly heinous crimes. For a number of reasons: (1) Attention from LE (2) Losing customers by fear of tainted coins. No legitimate coins are going to enter into a tumbler with potential dirty coins because there is a real possibility of 'tainted' coins being significantly less valuable at some point. Tainted coins are those that 'touched' dirty coins and are mixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Buck Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 For years I heard about Bitcoin but unfortunately I never really looked into what it actually was. I always just thought it was something that nerds used to trade points in online video games. LOL. After the recent price spike, I've started doing some studying of Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies in general. They have some very interesting things going for them. It's pretty tempting to put a few bucks into Bitcoin right now, but my concern is that it's potential to threaten the entire central banking system will eventually cause the ultra-wealthy and powerful central banks to take action to make it illegal. If that happens, obviously Bitcoin would drop in value like a lead balloon. What do you Bitcoin experts think? Do Bitcoin and its clones have the ability to survive long term in spite of an onslaught from the central banks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 On 10/10/2017 at 5:22 PM, Uncle Buck said: It's pretty tempting to put a few bucks into Bitcoin right now, but my concern is that it's potential to threaten the entire central banking system will eventually cause the ultra-wealthy and powerful central banks to take action to make it illegal. If that happens, obviously Bitcoin would drop in value like a lead balloon. What do you Bitcoin experts think? Do Bitcoin and its clones have the ability to survive long term in spite of an onslaught from the central banks? I'd say that @incognito_man and I had a fantastic debate on this. Theory, scenarios, drop points, etc. Go ahead and read up, it'll illustrate what you're concerned about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Buck Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Ok thanks, ET. I'll read through the thread and check it out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Start at page 4 @Uncle Buck. There are differing opinions, but each has some really dynamic points. It's on you to find your stance, but both sides make compelling points. Arguably one of the best debates on this site, IMO. Right @incognito_man? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 3 minutes ago, EliteTexan80 said: Start at page 4 @Uncle Buck. There are differing opinions, but each has some really dynamic points. It's on you to find your stance, but both sides make compelling points. Arguably one of the best debates on this site, IMO. Right @incognito_man? I heard PBS might do a Frontline on our talk. Did they reach out to you too? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Just now, incognito_man said: I heard PBS might do a Frontline on our talk. Did they reach out to you too? If my draft to upper management works out, then I might have a job for you. THAT'S how good our talk was. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossburg Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Damn son, 5200 as of tying this post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted October 12, 2017 Author Share Posted October 12, 2017 44 minutes ago, Mossburg said: Damn son, 5200 as of tying this post. New record. Good job to the people that didnt panic when it was dropping. I figured it'd bounce back and break 5k quite quick. Nothing but going to the moon from here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramssuperbowl99 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 On 10/1/2017 at 7:56 PM, incognito_man said: the point remains that the world will always know what coins are associated with a particular crime. It stands to reason than the places offering services that allow folks to anonymously exchange currencies and/or "tumble" the coins will flat out reject accepting coins involved in particularly heinous crimes. For a number of reasons: (1) Attention from LE (2) Losing customers by fear of tainted coins. No legitimate coins are going to enter into a tumbler with potential dirty coins because there is a real possibility of 'tainted' coins being significantly less valuable at some point. Tainted coins are those that 'touched' dirty coins and are mixed. So wouldn't the strategy be: 1. Do illegal thing 2. Get paid in bitcoin 3. Before the bitcoin can be tracked or frozen, exchange it several times in different marketplaces around the world to make it very difficult for LE agencies to follow each step 4. Your bitcoin is now clean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 50 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said: So wouldn't the strategy be: 1. Do illegal thing 2. Get paid in bitcoin 3. Before the bitcoin can be tracked or frozen, exchange it several times in different marketplaces around the world to make it very difficult for LE agencies to follow each step 4. Your bitcoin is now clean Depends on what you mean by 'do illegal thing'. If it is extortion, there is no time lag. The party forced to pay has ID'd the coins and the world knows what the addresses are. If you mean pay for drugs or something between willing parties, there is no real advantage or disadvantage in the short term over say cash. However, if EVER law enforcement identifies an address as being unlawful, the the full transaction record for that player is public knowledge recorded on tens of thousands of computers. So LE automatically gets every address ever associated (and exact transaction amounts) with that particular one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossburg Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 (edited) ^That's assuming that payer can be identified and is using the same address. You can just create a new wallet for one time use and make sure none of your transactions are traceable to any IP address linked to your name. Cash will always be king, but if you go to certain lengths you can be pretty anonymous with Bitcoin. EDIT: That's regarding your second scenario where law enforcement has to go back and figure things out. If it's a major deal that is being tracked, I dunno. I'd love to see a documentary or something on what hackers or whoever do when they get these payments that are likely tracked by cops before they even happen. Edited October 12, 2017 by Mossburg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pats#1 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 (edited) What's your guys' thoughts on Ripple? Heard its the 3rd largest behind Bitcoin and Etherium....at 25 cents right now. Thinking of tossing a couple hundred into in just for the hell of it. No idea how to purchase and securely store this stuff...quick search has led me to Bitstamp, Kraken, and Gatehub. Edited October 12, 2017 by Pats#1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramssuperbowl99 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 (edited) 8 hours ago, incognito_man said: Depends on what you mean by 'do illegal thing'. If it is extortion, there is no time lag. The party forced to pay has ID'd the coins and the world knows what the addresses are. If you mean pay for drugs or something between willing parties, there is no real advantage or disadvantage in the short term over say cash. However, if EVER law enforcement identifies an address as being unlawful, the the full transaction record for that player is public knowledge recorded on tens of thousands of computers. So LE automatically gets every address ever associated (and exact transaction amounts) with that particular one. I'm speculating here, but it seems to me the advantage is that you can move it instantaneously anywhere you want without having to pass any electronic bank flagging. Then if you want to cash out you could show a bank a statement that says "I sold this bitcoin, here's the receipt". I don't know how you would do it with extortion like the HBO hackers. With drugs, you could just set up wallets at different places all over the world with limited jurisdictions so even if law enforcement wanted to track it it would be theoretically possible, but insanely difficult. Edited October 12, 2017 by ramssuperbowl99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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