Is Goff actually good?

[DannyB]

1 minute ago, rocky_rams said:

Here’s what I’m arguing, winning matters more than individual stats. I don’t care if my QB got 5 ints in one game as long as we win. 

Winning cumaltively leads to great success. QBs are mostly considered goats based on how much they’ve won. 

Youre knocking Goff as if he didn’t make the super bowl last year, as if he didn’t have a 4th Quarter comeback against the Browns last night, and as if his team is not 3-0 this season. 

He's decent. And of course winning is all the matters. But that's a lazy way to evaluate QBs. Just like solely looking at yardage, or TDs, or interceptions, is also lazy. You kinda gotta look at the whole pictures. He's decent at this point.

[Dr LBC]

20 hours ago, -Hope- said:

he's good, not great. i don't think he's really even particularly overrated, it's not like he's commonly talked about as a top 5 QB. he's a good QB you can win with.

This.

As for this thread, it's typical NFL General jump to hyperbole in the terminology.  By simple black and white language, if he's not good he's bad.  And is he "bad?"  No.  Go put on MNF and watch Case Keenum, that's what bad looks like.  Go back to last season and watch Bortles, that was bad.  The system certainly helps Goff - that's what systems are designed to do!  Tom Brady's system helps him.  Drew Brees' system helps him.  Dak's system helps him.  This isn't rocket science.  That doesn't mean they're system QB's.

[ronjon1990]

54 minutes ago, DannyB said:

I'm so tempted to go make a list of active quarterbacks that have either a.) won a Super Bowl, or b.) managed to have their offense score a touchdown against the Patriots in the postseason in their first game facing them

Let me help you:

Superbowl winners: Eli Manning, Peyton Manning, Joe Flacco, Aaron Rodgers, Ben Roethlisberger, Russell Wilson, Nick Foles. 

That's rarified aire there. 5 Hall of Famers, 1 (maybe 2) buoyed by the defense but known for clutch playoff play that transcends his regular season play, and the most improbable run of all time. 

Wanna go playoffs and Superbowl losers?

Luck, Mahomes, Mariota, Osweiler,Alex Smith, Schaub, Sanchez, Rivers, Jones, Garrard, Pennington, Plummer, McNabb, McNair, Delhomme, Gannon, Warner, Stewart, Ryan, Bortles.

Theres another Hall of Famer (Warner), 1 surefire Hall of Famer (Rivers), 5 with the possibility of going in the Hall of Fame or a solid case therefore (Luck, Mahomes, McNair, McNabb, Ryan), a trick play (Jones), 9 guys who were considered objectively "good" or rising at the time (Smith, Schaub, Sanchez, Garrard, Pennington, Plummer, Delhomme, Gannon, Mariota), and an exciting playmaker (Stewart).  1 outlier that wasn't viewed as a starter or at all special in Bortles.

Still, pretty darn rarified aire. Some played against better Patriots teams, some against worse, some seasoned vets, some young guns, and several with multiple cracks at the Patriots. 

Goff is still one of the youngest of the aforementioned and only played the Patriots in the Superbowl, where coaches have a longer time to break down plays (and Bill B is ridiculous at this), in his system for shorter time than any of the others named, and was essentially without his star running back(s), which virtually all of the others had. 

Even by your criteria, Goff far exceeds the mark for "actually good", all things considered.

Edited September 24, 2019 by ronjon1990

[JohnCena]

Yes he is, just go watch his game against Patrick Mahomes during that epic MNF game if you don't believe me.

[DannyB]

3 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

Let me help you:

Superbowl winners: Eli Manning, Peyton Manning, Joe Flacco, Aaron Rodgers, Ben Roethlisberger, Russell Wilson, Nick Foles. 

That's rarified aire there. 5 Hall of Famers, 1 (maybe 2) buoyed by the defense but known for clutch playoff play that transcends his regular season play, and the most improbable run of all time. 

Wanna go playoffs and Superbowl losers?

Luck, Mahomes, Mariota, Osweiler,Alex Smith, Schaub, Sanchez, Rivers, Jones, Garrard, Pennington, Plummer, McNabb, McNair, Delhomme, Gannon, Warner, Stewart, Ryan.

Theres another Hall of Famer (Warner), 1 surefire Hall of Famer (Rivers), 5 with the possibility of going in the Hall of Fame or a solid case therefore (Luck, Mahomes, McNair, McNabb, Ryan), a trick play (Jones), 9 guys who were considered objectively "good" or rising at the time (Smith, Schaub, Sanchez, Garrard, Pennington, Plummer, Delhomme, Gannon, Mariota), and an exciting playmaker (Stewart). 

Still, pretty darn rarified aire. Some played against better Patriots teams, some against worse, some seasoned vets, some young guns, and several with multiple cracks at the Patriots. 

Goff is still one of the youngest of the aforementioned and only played the Patriots in the Superbowl, where coaches have a longer time to break down plays (and Bill B is ridiculous at this), in his system for shorter time than any of the others named, and was essentially without his star running back(s), which virtually all of the others had. 

Even by your criteria, Goff far exceeds the mark for "actually good", all things considered.

So what you're saying is...David Garrard, Mark Sanchez, Jake Plummer all did something that Goff couldn't do with a better offense around him? Damn, maybe he's worse than I thought.

[ronjon1990]

4 minutes ago, DannyB said:

So what you're saying is...David Garrard, Mark Sanchez, Jake Plummer all did something that Goff couldn't do with a better offense around him? Damn, maybe he's worse than I thought.

Reading. Comprehension. 

You blatantly ignored the rest of the post, like the other guy, to try and fit your narrative. 

At least try and be original. 

When the only response is a snarky comment, you know it's time to pack it in. 

Edited September 24, 2019 by ronjon1990

[jrry32]

32 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Isn't my entire premise here that we're just evaluating whether or not Goff is going through a funk or regressing to the mean? lol my entire argument has been that his last like 13 or whatever games (even if you exclude the playoffs) haven't really been that great. Apparently you agree, so why are we even arguing?

Are you pretending that you didn't try to answer that question?

EDIT: Here's a direct quote from your previous post: "As of now, it looks like Goff's play right now is indicative of where he'll be most of the time. He may go as low as the Bears game or Superbowl every now and then, and every now and then he'll have a 4 TD performance, but other than that it looks like he's a pretty mediocre QB most of the time."

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If you're going over his last 38 games just include his entire career tbh.

The last 38 games is 2017 to now. It includes the playoffs. Why would I include his rookie year? I don't think anybody is stupid enough to suggest that Goff is a bad QB because he was bad as a rookie. And I'm certainly not stupid enough to suggest that Goff didn't suck as a rookie.

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Again, I'm not here debating his 2017 season, or even the first half of 2018. They were great. He was playing great. And then the Bears game happened and ever since he's been pretty mediocre, and apparently you agree...so again why are we arguing?

Because that misstates what happened. You use the entirety of a stretch to pretend that his play was static during the stretch. His play was up and down. He was terrible against the Bears and Patriots. He was very good to great against the Cardinals and 49ers. He was good in both games against the Saints. There wasn't a consistent level of play. He's certainly been inconsistent, but people are cherry picking numbers to push a narrative that isn't accurate.

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Who didn't give him credit when they were putting up 40 points a game or whatever that was? I certainly was, and if I wasn't I'll gladly eat that crow.

We finished last year with the #2 offense in the NFL (at 32.9 PPG), made it to a Super Bowl, had a 13-3 season, and Goff put up a monster regular season for a 24 year old QB. Yet, in Week 1 of the season (if not before that), I had people telling me that I should be concerned about Goff. What other QB with accomplishments like his is/has been treated that way? Do you think people were telling Colts fans after 1999 or 2000 that they should be concerned about Peyton Manning?

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Okay, believe whatever you want to believe. I do enjoy watching the Rams offense and Cooper Kupp. I do root for the Seahawks. I like good football and enjoy watching good offenses, especially after watching Joe Flacco for a goddamn decade. I only hate two teams - New England and Pittsburgh. You seem to believe I have some vendetta against Goff or something, but you're also completely turning your back to the idea that Goff could be regressing to the mean, and you've determined for a fact that Goff is Peyton Manning or Tom Brady and just going through a funk. The funny thing is that I have never said he wasn't. I'm just saying his play lately hasn't been that good. The other guy wanted to bring up Brees, yeah I agree his play lately hasn't been to the level Brees usually plays at either!

I have not determined that for a fact. I have determined that Goff is a good QB. I don't know how good or great he'll be. But yes, I have determined that he's going through a funk. And I have completely turned my back on the idea that he's regressing to the mean, because it doesn't make sense. How many QBs have "regressed to the mean" after doing what Goff did the past two years? 

Edited September 24, 2019 by jrry32

[DannyB]

1 minute ago, ronjon1990 said:

Reading. Comprehension. 

You blatantly ignored the rest of the post, like the other guy, to try and fit your narrative. 

At least try and be original. 

Yeah like I said, he's fine. Take away the surrounding cast and everything, he's probably something like a Cousins or Stafford. Decent.

Honestly, I didn't realize FF was like a cherry-red hotbed of big time Goff support, haha! I thought most people kinda agreed that he's fine with the right situation around him, but not worth that fat contract.

[stl4life07]

48 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

The point is that Goff is very clearly trending down. And as much as Rams fans want to lump him in with "winners", he played bad in the games that mattered most. 

What???!!!! He is trending down? Lost in all this "trending down" talk you do know last night was another 4th quarter comeback by Goff? Trailing by 3pts on the road in the 4th quarter Goff did win last time I checked. He has 8 of them since Week 16 of 2017 which is amongst the best in the NFL in that span. Again ll say it, the only stat I want is Goff (2-0) against Dak and the Cowboys. Goff has the Rams as the most wins in the NFL as a team outside of the Patriots. Goff has the Rams (15-3) on the road in the regular season since the start of the 2017 which is best in the NFL in that span. Goff has the Rams (9-2) since the start of the 2018 season in games decided by 8pts or less. Like as long as the result shows the Rams are winning to me there shouldnt be any discussion. I PROMISE you that if Goff was putting up Mahomes type numbers and the Rams was losing then people would still question Goff's inability to win. Cousins got paid all that money because of his stats in Washington but that didnt equate to winning and now in Minnesota he is relegated to throwing less because the less he throws the better the Vikings chances of winning. Now if you want to have a discussion about Cousins then lets have it but Im missing something about Goff because last time I checked (29-9) as a starting QB since 2017 and is the youngest QB to start in the Superbowl in NFL history thats now in its 100th season. By the way 5 of those 9 losses came in Goff's first year in McVay system while trying to get adjusted to all the new pieces around him on offense. Not to bad for a QB who is trending down.

Edited September 24, 2019 by stl4life07

[Matts4313]

2 minutes ago, stl4life07 said:

What???!!!! He is trending down? Lost in all this "trending down" talk you do know last night was another 4th quarter comeback by Goff? Trailing by 3pts on the road in the 4th quarter Goff did win last time I checked. He has 9 of them since Week 16 of 2017 which is amongst the best in the NFL. Again ll say it, the only stat I want is Goff (2-0) against Dak and the Cowboys. Goff has the Rams as the most wins in the NFL as a team outside of the Patriots. Goff has the Rams (15-3) on the road in the regular season since the start of the 2017 which is best in the NFL in that span. Goff has the Rams (9-2) since the start of the 2018 season in games decided by 8pts or less. Like as long as the result shows the Rams are winning to me there shouldnt be any discussion. I PROMISE you that if Goff was putting up Mahomes type numbers and the Rams was losing then people would still question Goff's inability to win. Cousins got paid all that money because of his stats in Washington but that didnt equate to winning and now in Minnesota he is relegated to throwing less because the less he throws the better the Vikings chances of winning. Now if you want to have a discussion about Cousins then lets have it but Im missing something about Goff because last time I checked (29-9) as a starting QB since 2017 and is the youngest QB to start in the Superbowl in NFL history thats now in its 100th season. Not to bad for a QB who is trending down.

 

I get it, you want to attribute team accomplishments to Goff, but his individual performance has trended down. 

[stl4life07]

16 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

 

I get it, you want to attribute team accomplishments to Goff, but his individual performance has trended down. 

The NFL is a team sport so what are you saying? We can have a legit discussion if McVay wasnt letting Goff do much in games or Goff just couldnt win the big games. Again you got to make up your mind about stats or wins? You failed to mention how unflappable Goff is. Like the Rams literally did nothing in the 1st half of the Browns game and the opening 2nd half kickoff Goff drives the team down the field and score a td. Against the Saints in the playoffs, Goff literally was miserable in the 1st quarter where pretty much any quarterback outside of possibly Brady, Mahomes, and ARod wouldve folded. Goff didnt. He got himself and the offense going and carried the Rams by making the plays he needed to make to win. You can look at the box score but I see with my eyes. Against the Saints in Week 2, the Saints defense was playing well but in the 2nd half Goff led the team down for tds on three straight drives to put that game away. Against the Cowboys in the playoffs when they were making a run at the end, who closed the game out to make sure the Cowboys didnt see the field again? Goff. If Cooks make that catch in the Superbowl the game wouldve been tied 10-10 and who knows what happens. So again I dont see what you are saying. Unless you are saying that Goff has not even the slightest thing to do with the Rams winning all these games lately. 

Edited September 24, 2019 by stl4life07

[Matts4313]

 

[LeotheLion]

5 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

 

I'm not sure what your thought process was when posting this. Were you thinking it's been 5 hours since posting a tweet showing his last 10 games so I'll now post his last 11? 

[Matts4313]

1 minute ago, LeotheLion said:

I'm not sure what your thought process was when posting this. Were you thinking it's been 5 hours since posting a tweet showing his last 10 games so I'll now post his last 11? 

it was on reddit, it was applicable

[JohnCena]

3 hours ago, jrry32 said:

He has led the Rams to the second-most wins since the start of 2017, behind only Brady and the Patriots. If that's a "fair amount of games," I am interested in knowing what a "good amount of games" is.

It's funny how if your not perceived as the talented guy your apparently not good. People nowadays don't even watch guys play whatever the media or "experts" say goes. So it doesn't surprise me how the same people that call Wentz great will call Goff overrated. Not to discredit Wentz he's great too, but if you want to say Goff ain't any good right now than what makes Wentz all that better?

At the end of the day I look at it like this - Goff is the reigning defending NFC Champion and if I had that first overall pick in 2016 I would select Goff again without any hesitation.