topwop1 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 5 minutes ago, yomyyo said: I, too, like Mitch and hope he succeeds. Obviously he has incredible physical ability; we shall see about the rest. Worrying are the comments from those in the organization. When the head coach is still talking about the need for the QB to crispy move in and out of the huddle – after three years! – that is not a strong endorsement of his mental fortitude. Just curious as to when Nagy said that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G08 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 I went back and watched a bunch of his collegiate games and found myself marveling at how confident he was with his reads and making throws that, at least this season, he wouldn't dare attempt to make. I think he's overwhelmed at this point, honestly. Where specifically that is occurring is beyond me. Could be reading defenses, could be converting routes in his head based on what the defense is doing post-snap, could be that defenses have a better read on Nagy and his scheme. Multiple accounts now that we have tendencies that tell the defense what play is coming so I'm sure it's a conglomerate of "bad" that's impacting our offense and QB in particular. He's said in the past he's a repetition guy so it wouldn't surprise me if it takes him time -- and mistakes -- before he really settles into this offense. Question is how patient can we afford to be and how much can we trust that his work ethic + natural talents are enough for him to take us where we want to go. Personally, I think (hope?) we'll see it before the season ends 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, G08 said: I went back and watched a bunch of his collegiate games and found myself marveling at how confident he was with his reads and making throws that, at least this season, he wouldn't dare attempt to make. I think he's overwhelmed at this point, honestly. Where specifically that is occurring is beyond me. Could be reading defenses, could be converting routes in his head based on what the defense is doing post-snap, could be that defenses have a better read on Nagy and his scheme. Multiple accounts now that we have tendencies that tell the defense what play is coming so I'm sure it's a conglomerate of "bad" that's impacting our offense and QB in particular. He's said in the past he's a repetition guy so it wouldn't surprise me if it takes him time -- and mistakes -- before he really settles into this offense. Question is how patient can we afford to be and how much can we trust that his work ethic + natural talents are enough for him to take us where we want to go. Personally, I think (hope?) we'll see it before the season ends This assumes that time will = success. In terms of NFL QBs we have seen hundreds of guys, some drafted just as high with a ton of talent, that no matter how much time and snaps you give them were never going to become an effective NFL QB. I hope it does, but time does not always equate to success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 10 minutes ago, topwop1 said: This is also what I think they should do. Drafting another rookie QB with limited resources seems like a bit of a step back at this point for a team with SB aspirations in the short term. Does anyone really expect a 2nd round+ rookie to come in, win the starting job and be good enough to lead this team? I don't see it man. I think they'd be better off rolling with Mitch and a veteran next year like A. Smith, Foles, Mariota, Teddy, , etc. and then if things don't work out with either option then you cut bait and start all over again in 2021 before Mitch's 5th year option would kick in. My ideal scenario -Sign Mariota -Coward/Bars plays well enough to be the RG. -2nd: OT to replace Leno and TE Then you have the 2 biggest weaknesses on offense addressed and a legit QB comp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 Sorry, my ideal scenario is that Trubisky becomes awesome and we build around him on offense. The scenario above is my realistic scenario. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 Could Rosen be a good backup going forward and possible competition? What would you be willing to give up if so? If it's a pair of 6th rd picks it makes sense to me. He has talent and flaws, but who knows what oculd happen and he's got more upside than Daniel(s) and Mariotas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abstract_thought Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 57 minutes ago, WindyCity said: This assumes that time will = success. In terms of NFL QBs we have seen hundreds of guys, some drafted just as high with a ton of talent, that no matter how much time and snaps you give them were never going to become an effective NFL QB. I hope it does, but time does not always equate to success. Mariota is a great example of a guy who looked best early and got steadily worse over time. Some QBs can't adjust to the speed and pressure of the NFL game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 1 hour ago, topwop1 said: Does anyone really expect a 2nd round+ rookie to come in, win the starting job and be good enough to lead this team? I don't see it man. Expect? Don't know about that, but we've been over this issue--it's entirely possible. There's a decent chance a franchise guy falls to late first, early second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G08 Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 6 hours ago, WindyCity said: This assumes that time will = success. In terms of NFL QBs we have seen hundreds of guys, some drafted just as high with a ton of talent, that no matter how much time and snaps you give them were never going to become an effective NFL QB. I hope it does, but time does not always equate to success. That's fair, but early success does not always guarantee future success either. Look no further than Jared Goff... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G08 Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 6 hours ago, WindyCity said: Sorry, my ideal scenario is that Trubisky becomes awesome and we build around him on offense. The scenario above is my realistic scenario. If Mariota doesn't get starter's money elsewhere in the league, I'd absolutely bring him in here to be the backup. Hell, let him breathe down Trubisky's neck a little bit too... nothing wrong with a little healthy competition. Still, I'm in the minority here, but the kid is 14-5 as a starter in this offense, ~ 2:1 TD to INT ratio and throwing for around 7 yards per attempt. I can live with that as a QB who is still not fully comfortable in this offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 20 hours ago, topwop1 said: Good point. I'm on the fence with Mariota. I understand the possible reasons behind why he has not lived up to his full potential in TEN including the constant change in OC's, offensive schemes, etc. and I also understand the connection with Helfrich and the RPO system but I am also skeptical that he will just suddenly turn his career around elsewhere. Honestly speaking though he cannot be any worse than Chase Daniel as a backup/fill-in starter can he? At least Mariota can run when he needs to and see over his offensive line. Oh yeah. Mariota is better than Daniel for certain. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topwop1 Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 11 hours ago, G08 said: That's fair, but early success does not always guarantee future success either. Look no further than Jared Goff... True. Also look at your boy Derek Carr who is another prime example of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topwop1 Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 16 hours ago, Heinz D. said: Expect? Don't know about that, but we've been over this issue--it's entirely possible. There's a decent chance a franchise guy falls to late first, early second. Anything is possible but the chances of that actually happening are very slim IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topwop1 Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 18 hours ago, RunningVaccs said: Could Rosen be a good backup going forward and possible competition? What would you be willing to give up if so? If it's a pair of 6th rd picks it makes sense to me. He has talent and flaws, but who knows what oculd happen and he's got more upside than Daniel(s) and Mariotas I would not give up anything more than a 7th round pick for him at this point, if even that. He could be a decent fill in starter here and there but you will always be looking for more with him. Rosen hasn't exactly been put in great situations during his first 2 seasons in the NFL, but I haven't seen anything from him so far that leads me to believe he has "it". Not even a glimmer whereas I've seen that with Mitch. Aside from that I have heard multiple times that Rosen is one of those typical trust fund babies that exudes a certain arrogance and is not exactly the most well liked guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 18 hours ago, WindyCity said: My ideal scenario -Sign Mariota -Coward/Bars plays well enough to be the RG. -2nd: OT to replace Leno and TE Then you have the 2 biggest weaknesses on offense addressed and a legit QB comp. Not sure what cost difference would be, but assuming its on par would you rather have Mariota or Foles? Foles is nearing end of the line, but he seems to thrive in this system. I think you train Bars to be an OT until he proves he can't hack it then move him to guard. OTs are way more difficult to find than guards in this league. Let Coward play OG. He is probably most physically strong OL we have and while he looked decent at OT last year, he looked miserable there this year. Not sure if he is/was hurt or out of shape, or last year was an aberration. I suspect by looking at him in camp he came in out of shape. His gut was pretty big compared to last year. I think we also have to keep in mind that Bars is coming off knee surgery. Theoretically he should be better next year off that alone. He could possibly supplant Massie or Leno next year if Bears would actually have legit competitions for positions on OL and not gift them like they did for Long this year. If not they have a good reserve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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