Nads786 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 2 hours ago, WindyCity said: Watson holds the ball longer than any QB in the league. In addition to trading for Tunsil they spent 1st and 2nd round picks this season on the line. I think everyone would agree Watson does not have elite pass protection but it's way better than last year and they have a legit running game. They are 7th in rushing in the NFL currently. We are 29th? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nads786 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 37 minutes ago, RunningVaccs said: Lost in a 12-4 season in 2018 was the fact that our OL was not very effective in the run game. I didn't notice it until rewatching many games to assess Trubisky, but it seems like more run plays than not had someone walking right by Leno or pushing the guards and center backwards. The big difference is this year they extended that level of performance to the pass game. The OL play is just a piece of the puzzle that forms the tapestry of "meh" that is the Bears in 2019. What's truly bizarre about this team is how difficult they are to evaluate, at least beyond their record. For much of the season the narrative is that Trubisky is baffled by zone coverage, and then right before the Packers game someone put out stats that he's had far far better results against zone than man. I'm listening to podcasts to start the week, and in one they're talking about how much time Trubisky had to throw-almsot 3 seconds-and in another they're talking about he looked pressured all day. When a group is difficult to evaluate, but generally agreed to be not very good, I think the conclusion has to be that all of it is mediocre. The WORST thing about this season is that evaluations of Trubisky-which is critical for determining how to improve the team for contention-can best be called "inconclusive" as he's played OK-to-very-good recently, but also absolutely terrible at other times. I think we're pretty much guaranteed to keep trying with 10 next season, and while I think we'll bring on a veteran and maybe draft a guy, and I think that's just going to make us an ALMOST good enough team for the next couple years. Maybe the Bears will fix the TE and OL groups this offseason, but realistically I think you're looking at a top 10-15 offensive unit at best again. The Bears really bet the farm on the team being good enough to contend this year and next, and they're probably not going to do it, as their biggest investments needed to produce game changing players and they've got an average QB that hints at more maybe, and a top tier pass rusher that isn't changing games regularly. We're not going to be bad enough in 2020 to be able to have our pick of QB, so who knows when this team will get it all together. I ended up watching the game on delay, and also ended up mixing red wine and bourbon over the course of the night, and I am still hungover. Our Oline has been a poor unit for far too long. The last two years we were unable to run the ball consistently and I think we need a change of coaching and fresh talent. Nagy said it himself, he wants to improve the running game in 2020 and it's probably the biggest weakness on this team right now. We have to sacrifice the defense and whatever else it takes to get a really strong OL and run game going next year or we'll be in the same spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBHalas Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 I think it's time we start asking about if the problems in the run game might be the run game itself. Nagy comes from the Reid tree which isn't known for running the ball much if at all. If you guys remember one of the biggest complaint about Reid in Philadelphia was that he wasn't running the ball enough. Another guy from the Reid tree, Defillipo was fired last year for not running enough in Minnesota. Maybe it's the concept of this offense that needs to be looked at, and the stresses it puts on the quarterback, and offensive line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 Some teams employ a run game coordinator, who often handles the O line as well. Adding a specialized run coach and getting a new OL coach would go a ways toward indicating the team is serious about improving on their biggest weakness. I was excited when Nagy came on, to see a more pass heavy attach, but he doesn't have the personnel to use the pass to setup the run like I think he wants to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted December 17, 2019 Author Share Posted December 17, 2019 1 hour ago, RunningVaccs said: Some teams employ a run game coordinator, who often handles the O line as well. Adding a specialized run coach and getting a new OL coach would go a ways toward indicating the team is serious about improving on their biggest weakness. I was excited when Nagy came on, to see a more pass heavy attach, but he doesn't have the personnel to use the pass to setup the run like I think he wants to. This is a personnel issue LT: average LG: average C: Slightly above RG: below RT: average Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nads786 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 4 hours ago, GBHalas said: I think it's time we start asking about if the problems in the run game might be the run game itself. Nagy comes from the Reid tree which isn't known for running the ball much if at all. If you guys remember one of the biggest complaint about Reid in Philadelphia was that he wasn't running the ball enough. Another guy from the Reid tree, Defillipo was fired last year for not running enough in Minnesota. Maybe it's the concept of this offense that needs to be looked at, and the stresses it puts on the quarterback, and offensive line. This is a great point, but Doug Pederson has been running it pretty well over in Philadelphia. I think Nagy is capable of adapting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 2 hours ago, WindyCity said: This is a personnel issue LT: average LG: average C: Slightly above RG: below RT: average There is a case to be made that it's both personnel (which I advocate making a priority to upgrade in the offseason) and coaching. We've seen many in this unit play better, plus they made a switch to put players (both talented) at their natural positions and it totally flopped. Hiestand can with serious credibility but the OL has been just OK during his tenure. I love the idea of spending our next pick on an OL, either OG to replace Coward or OT to replace whichever OT sucks hardest in the offseason. But I think it's worth bringing in coaching help for the run game as it does not seem to come naturally to Nagy, and there are too many times linemen seem confused as to who they're supposed to block or how. Also taking a hard look at whether the OL coach is getting the most out of the players. Use the other 2nd pick on either a great player that's fallen, or at TE you feel can start, a QB who fits or even gosh who knows trade for Josh Rosen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 6 hours ago, GBHalas said: I think it's time we start asking about if the problems in the run game might be the run game itself. Nagy comes from the Reid tree which isn't known for running the ball much if at all. If you guys remember one of the biggest complaint about Reid in Philadelphia was that he wasn't running the ball enough. Another guy from the Reid tree, Defillipo was fired last year for not running enough in Minnesota. Maybe it's the concept of this offense that needs to be looked at, and the stresses it puts on the quarterback, and offensive line. DeFilippo wasn't a Reid guy, he's never coached under Reid at all. MIN's run game was horrible because of all the OL and RB injuries. Their OL was as bad as ours for the bulk of the year. Cook being down hurt but the OL not getting healthy until late was the biggest reason they couldn't run the ball and why he came on strong late. The systems both do put a ton of stress on the QB though. Without a good run game it's brutal on them. Mahomes can handle it obviously but you often see Wentz struggling now, Tru is, Minshrew and Foles are having a hard time, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topwop1 Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 The only two guys that should be surefire starters for Bears O line next season are Whitehair and Daniels. The other 3 guys should be put on notice and have legit competition. Will be pricey but after thinking about it wouldn't mind seeing Scherff added to take over for Coward and then them draft OTs early and often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G08 Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 4 hours ago, Sugashane said: DeFilippo wasn't a Reid guy, he's never coached under Reid at all. MIN's run game was horrible because of all the OL and RB injuries. Their OL was as bad as ours for the bulk of the year. Cook being down hurt but the OL not getting healthy until late was the biggest reason they couldn't run the ball and why he came on strong late. The systems both do put a ton of stress on the QB though. Without a good run game it's brutal on them. Mahomes can handle it obviously but you often see Wentz struggling now, Tru is, Minshrew and Foles are having a hard time, etc. Minnesota trotted out the same line this year with new coaches (Kubiak/Dennison) leading the charge. I'm praying we get back to a zone-based attack but I don't see it happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted December 18, 2019 Author Share Posted December 18, 2019 9 hours ago, G08 said: Minnesota trotted out the same line this year with new coaches (Kubiak/Dennison) leading the charge. I'm praying we get back to a zone-based attack but I don't see it happening. They added Zach Kline on a 7/season deal to play RG They drafted Garrett Bradbury at 18 to play C. And 2nd round pick from 18 Brian O'Niel developed into a stud. Coaching matters, but they spent big and upgraded 2/5 spots on their line with premium players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 1 minute ago, WindyCity said: They added Zach Kline on a 7/season deal to play RG They drafted Garrett Bradbury at 18 to play C. And 2nd round pick from 18 Brian O'Niel developed into a stud. Coaching matters, but they spent big and upgraded 2/5 spots on their line with premium players. Josh Kline, I think you mean, was given a 3 year deal at just over $5M a year. That isn't exactly a huge investment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nads786 Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 11 hours ago, topwop1 said: The only two guys that should be surefire starters for Bears O line next season are Whitehair and Daniels. The other 3 guys should be put on notice and have legit competition. Will be pricey but after thinking about it wouldn't mind seeing Scherff added to take over for Coward and then them draft OTs early and often. Anyone feel like Daniels is a bust? He doesn't do anything well and I keep seeing him get owned by players like Kenny Clark the last game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 8 minutes ago, Nads786 said: Anyone feel like Daniels is a bust? He doesn't do anything well and I keep seeing him get owned by players like Kenny Clark the last game. If he's still playing this way week 8 of next year, yes absolutely. Unfortunately you're right: he isn't trending in the right direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted December 18, 2019 Author Share Posted December 18, 2019 1 hour ago, beardown3231 said: Josh Kline, I think you mean, was given a 3 year deal at just over $5M a year. That isn't exactly a huge investment. That is a professional starting NFL OG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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