Sooo when’s he gone ?

[Kiwibrown]

4 minutes ago, sdrawkcab321 said:

God damn how long is that going to hang over him? The man was like 30 years old and it was like 8 years ago. He’s run a completely different offense since then. Just don’t give him complete control. 

Totally. 

He cam run an offense that attacks weaknesses. See cards vs browns.

[sdrawkcab321]

1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Roman 

Just worries me that he’ll be another good OC turned bad HC because he can’t handle the job. We’ve seen it so many times. I just want a proven guy. 

[buno67]

14 minutes ago, sdrawkcab321 said:

2 hours ago, mtmmike said:

Your right let’s hire McDaniel let him work his magic like he did in Denver

amongt his genius moves trade Tebow for cutler

God damn how long is that going to hang over him? The man was like 30 years old and it was like 8 years ago. He’s run a completely different offense since then. Just don’t give him complete control. 

Also the dude won a freaking playoff game with Tebow. That’s great coaching there!!

[DawgX]

17 minutes ago, sdrawkcab321 said:

God damn how long is that going to hang over him? The man was like 30 years old and it was like 8 years ago. He’s run a completely different offense since then. Just don’t give him complete control. 

He definitely wouldn't be my top choice but I wouldn't hate it.

I'm surprised that you're interested in him though since he's many years away from being over 60.

[BrownLeader]

21 hours ago, Rod Johnson said:

And it's not even close really.

I'm surprised there wasn't as much skepticism about that trade when it happened.  I think a lot of people muted theirs because national perception was so overwhelmingly favorable.

WRs don't win football games really.  They only have so many opportunities to impact the game moreso than a JAG who runs good routes and can catch.  Scheme gets these guys open a lot of the time, and good QBs make accurate throws that gets catches and opportunities for YAC.  I think it should be a basic principle of team building like "don't take RBs in the 1st round" which isn't brought up as often.

Yeah. But the team desperately needed a #1 WR and basically had all the other pieces in place. Had their QB, RB, stud DE, CB and was just a little light at OT. And OBJ was considered an all pro gamechanger before this season.

21 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I think having a number one who can get open and make plays and draw coverage is important.

I’m not sure having two guys who want/need the ball constantly is a great thing for an offense though.  It’s especially frustrating when it seems as though either the QB, play caller or both are pressing to get those guys the ball instead of just running an offense and letting the touched come organically.

All season Baker has seemed to try to keep OBJ happy and has forced a number of throws his way and has been rewarded a handful of times at most.

Actually I don't think he's forced the ball enough to OBJ. He needed to figure out how to get him the ball...that's only going to happen by trying to get him the ball. And i don't think Kitchens is pressing to get particular guys the ball at all really. How many times have we seen Baker throw a crucial pass to a 3rd string TE or a call up WR.

Kitchens deserves criticism for not incorporating more checkdowns before Hunt came in. But Baker's ability to read coverage and find the 2nd 3rd options has been awful. The pressing is coming from Baker who's pre determining everything instead of letting the defense tell him where to go.

[Rod Johnson]

1 hour ago, BrownLeader said:

Yeah. But the team desperately needed a #1 WR and basically had all the other pieces in place. Had their QB, RB, stud DE, CB and was just a little light at OT. And OBJ was considered an all pro gamechanger before this season.

Actually I don't think he's forced the ball enough to OBJ. He needed to figure out how to get him the ball...that's only going to happen by trying to get him the ball. And i don't think Kitchens is pressing to get particular guys the ball at all really. How many times have we seen Baker throw a crucial pass to a 3rd string TE or a call up WR.

Kitchens deserves criticism for not incorporating more checkdowns before Hunt came in. But Baker's ability to read coverage and find the 2nd 3rd options has been awful. The pressing is coming from Baker who's pre determining everything instead of letting the defense tell him where to go.

I just flat out disagree and I don't expect to sway you, but I'll lay out some more points.

I think that a great team isn't comprised of a handful of great players at a handful of key positions.  You need like 30 guys who can at least perform well enough in the confines of the system you're running.  Who is starting at safety matters a lot.  Who is starting on the offensive line matters a lot.  Your backup dlinemen matter a lot.  Your backup corners matter a lot.  WR3 and WR4 matter a lot.  It's not a basketball team where you need to get a few guys who can create their own offense and some solid role players to do the grunt work.  It's football where 11 guys have to do their job for a play to succeed and you're going to lose 10 of them to injury at some point.

If you look across the league you'll see many great #1 WRs that aren't on the best teams, and you see many great teams that don't have great #1 WRs.  You could argue 8/12 current playoff teams don't have a game changing #1 WR.  A lot of them have fringe #1s that do certain things very well, but aren't elite in the scope of the NFL.  Jarvis can be your best WR, and you can still have a great team and an effective offense.

I think that having OBJ and Jarvis has caused Baker to predetermine where he wants to go.  This wasn't a problem when he knew he could ignore Perriman all game unless a safety bites on PA and he gets to take a corner deep.  Or if he didn't have to consider Callaway an option until he's speeding through the middle of the field on a slant.  If your gameplan is to get the ball to OBJ and Jarvis, then you've simplified their defensive gameplan a whole lot.

I agree this is on Kitchens and the coaches, but it doesn't help when you put the monkey that is the media on your back who think that any offensive stagnation could be solved by simply giving the ball to your playmakers.  I think his decision to withhold guys like Higgins and Njoku in favor of guys you aren't ever going to look at in Hodges and most of our TEs is mind boggling.

[Rod Johnson]

And I think the fact you need to make 30 guys at least competent at their jobs is why coaches are arguably the most important positions on a football team.  Good teams can win games with scrubs filling in during the season because they are coached well enough to succeed.

And for that reason, heads need to roll this off-season in that department.  We have done a terrible job at that.

[Bonanza23]

1 hour ago, BrownLeader said:

Yeah. But the team desperately needed a #1 WR and basically had all the other pieces in place. Had their QB, RB, stud DE, CB and was just a little light at OT. And OBJ was considered an all pro gamechanger before this season.

Actually I don't think he's forced the ball enough to OBJ. He needed to figure out how to get him the ball...that's only going to happen by trying to get him the ball. And i don't think Kitchens is pressing to get particular guys the ball at all really. How many times have we seen Baker throw a crucial pass to a 3rd string TE or a call up WR.

Kitchens deserves criticism for not incorporating more checkdowns before Hunt came in. But Baker's ability to read coverage and find the 2nd 3rd options has been awful. The pressing is coming from Baker who's pre determining everything instead of letting the defense tell him where to go.

I bet you’re a ball of joy at parties. 

[MistaBohmbastic]

Freddie doesn't deserve all of the blame for the dysfunction on offense. That being said, he is tasked with correcting the issues that have been so painfully recurrent, and he hasn't. Obviously I'm simplifying, but barring a game against BAL in which he appears to get this offense's ish together and moves the ball downfield smoothly, rhythmically, better than their last matchup, he needs to go. He just can't handle it.

As some may recall, I didn't like this hire initially...but he did eventually win me over because he said all the right things. I do believe he had the best intentions, but that talk never translated to walk. The results are nowhere to be found. It's time to admit fault, swallow pride, and find a better solution.

[ditchdigger]

11 hours ago, DaWg_LB. said:

Chet Lemon. Classic. I actually have this baseball card.

[NateDawg]

Ryan Lindley needs fired yesterday. You are judged by the way your position plays right? Why 14 games in are we still seeing Baker Mayfield with the same tendencies, discomfort within the pocket, etc. as week one? If we decide to roll the same group out there including quarterback coach next season I will be beyond amazed and appalled.

[Kiwibrown]

One guy i wouldnt be against being considered for hc is preifer, his units have been aces all year. 

Things would at least be disciplined.

Edited December 17, 2019 by Kiwibrown

[hornbybrown]

45 minutes ago, Kiwibrown said:

One guy i wouldnt be against beimg considered fpe hc is preifer, bis inota have been aces all year. 

Things wpuld at least be disciplined.

Seriously proof read your posts

[Kiwibrown]

52 minutes ago, hornbybrown said:

Seriously proof read your posts

Calm down

[BrownLeader]

3 hours ago, Rod Johnson said:

I just flat out disagree and I don't expect to sway you, but I'll lay out some more points.

I think that a great team isn't comprised of a handful of great players at a handful of key positions.  You need like 30 guys who can at least perform well enough in the confines of the system you're running.  Who is starting at safety matters a lot.  Who is starting on the offensive line matters a lot.  Your backup dlinemen matter a lot.  Your backup corners matter a lot.  WR3 and WR4 matter a lot.  It's not a basketball team where you need to get a few guys who can create their own offense and some solid role players to do the grunt work.  It's football where 11 guys have to do their job for a play to succeed and you're going to lose 10 of them to injury at some point.

If you look across the league you'll see many great #1 WRs that aren't on the best teams, and you see many great teams that don't have great #1 WRs.  You could argue 8/12 current playoff teams don't have a game changing #1 WR.  A lot of them have fringe #1s that do certain things very well, but aren't elite in the scope of the NFL.  Jarvis can be your best WR, and you can still have a great team and an effective offense.

I think that having OBJ and Jarvis has caused Baker to predetermine where he wants to go.  This wasn't a problem when he knew he could ignore Perriman all game unless a safety bites on PA and he gets to take a corner deep.  Or if he didn't have to consider Callaway an option until he's speeding through the middle of the field on a slant.  If your gameplan is to get the ball to OBJ and Jarvis, then you've simplified their defensive gameplan a whole lot.

I agree this is on Kitchens and the coaches, but it doesn't help when you put the monkey that is the media on your back who think that any offensive stagnation could be solved by simply giving the ball to your playmakers.  I think his decision to withhold guys like Higgins and Njoku in favor of guys you aren't ever going to look at in Hodges and most of our TEs is mind boggling.

Far and away a great QB is the most important piece in building a great team. 11 of the 12 probable playoff teams this year have a guy playing like a franchise QB.

After that I can go along with your 30 or 29 guys take but a good team can still be built in a lot of different ways. I get you that its not basketball but often great players can mask other defeciences. A great QB minimizes a poor OL. A great RB makes an OL look better. A dominant rusher, a shut down CB, game changing LB, elite safety...these guys directly affect the outcome of games.

Dorsey, and all of us, thought he nailed down that franchise QB and he recognized he needed a legit receiving threat for him to throw to. Opportunity arose and he took it. Would Zeitler and Peppers have made Baker play like a franchise QB? ... 

Definitely dispute your 8/12 playoff teams don't have #1 type guys. I'd argue 7/12 certainly do. Cooper/Thielan/Lockett/Thomas/Adams/Hill/Hopkins are #1 guys. Whether a guy is truly elite or not is a different conversation.

Landry is considerably better this year than last year ..most likely due to health and that he's the #2 guy.

The notion that having 2 good WRs, as opposed to a bunch of averages last year, has made the QB worse is....a thing. ..he's also got the #1 RB this year. Isn't it much more likely that DC's have deep dived into what Baker was doing well last season and game planned better for him?

Edited December 17, 2019 by BrownLeader