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Who are our core players/building blocks? Whats our depth?

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5 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

I created a thread like this a while ago and it went over like a fart in church.

Oh well. 

I think we have real pieces in Lock, Risner, Sutton, Fant, Wolfe, Harris, Chubb, Von, Johnson, CHJ, Simmons, Jackson and McManus. 

Lindsay is a nice complimentary piece who gets overrated by the Denver media because he went to South and CU. I hope Matt “pour me another drink” Russell doesn’t talk Elway into over-paying for him. Freeman is also a nice complimentary player but to be honest I’d be fine spending a 3rd/4th on another RB. 

I hope they pay CHJ the contract they offered and he leaked the details of which to Nikki. That’s A LOT of money tied up in the secondary but with a QB on a rookie deal and our highest paid player leaving before said QB’s rookie deal expires, we can afford to allocate that money to one position group for now. 

I think, if only for his contract, James will be kept and penciled is a day one starter at RT, even though it sickens me. We need a new RG as Leary a) sucks, b) is old, c) is always injured and d) is way too expensive in light of a, b and c. Maybe a new C too as McGovern was marginal but a weak link; perhaps is best used as the backup interior OL. 

As regards the meathead Bolles, who as I said yesterday it physically talented but a total head case, if you have an option for a real replacement at LT, do it. If not, I don’t know? He’s not a cornerstone but he’s also not as bad as the drive by media would have you believe. 

This is the AAA I appreciate 

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30 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

I created a thread like this a while ago and it went over like a fart in church.

Oh well. 

I think we have real pieces in Lock, Risner, Sutton, Fant, Wolfe, Harris, Chubb, Von, Johnson, CHJ, Simmons, Jackson and McManus. 

Lindsay is a nice complimentary piece who gets overrated by the Denver media because he went to South and CU. I hope Matt “pour me another drink” Russell doesn’t talk Elway into over-paying for him. Freeman is also a nice complimentary player but to be honest I’d be fine spending a 3rd/4th on another RB. 

I hope they pay CHJ the contract they offered and he leaked the details of which to Nikki. That’s A LOT of money tied up in the secondary but with a QB on a rookie deal and our highest paid player leaving before said QB’s rookie deal expires, we can afford to allocate that money to one position group for now. 

I think, if only for his contract, James will be kept and penciled is a day one starter at RT, even though it sickens me. We need a new RG as Leary a) sucks, b) is old, c) is always injured and d) is way too expensive in light of a, b and c. Maybe a new C too as McGovern was marginal but a weak link; perhaps is best used as the backup interior OL. 

As regards the meathead Bolles, who as I said yesterday it physically talented but a total head case, if you have an option for a real replacement at LT, do it. If not, I don’t know? He’s not a cornerstone but he’s also not as bad as the drive by media would have you believe. 

I like your list. I'd take it further, probably adding quite a few more role players.

As far as Bolles, the media and fans may hate him, Lock and the Bronco's do not. Here's a clip from the DP:

"Offensive line (2): Jake Rodgers played right tackle for Ja’Wuan James/Elijah Wilkinson and Austin Schlottmann again filled in for right guard Ron Leary. Center Connor McGovern and left tackle Garett Bolles played every snap this year. The line was booked for only 2 1/2 of the 10 “bad” run plays. The Raiders’ only sack was split between Rodgers and Schlottmann (2.76 seconds). Knockdowns were booked to Rodgers and McGovern/Schlottmann. Rodgers had two penalties (one declined) and Bolles’ post-play personal foul for a minor shove pushed Brandon McManus’ field goal attempt back to 57 yards (he missed)."

 

You notice the sacks and hits weren't put on Bolles or Risner. Those kids are playing real well together.

 

Also; Take 10 minutes and watch this. Focus on #72 from the time the balls snapped on every single play.  Close to flawless / violent LT play. We could do much much worse.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbteGVnLUGo

 

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I'd love to throw some of our cap space at a guy like Brandon Scherff. Loved him coming out of College. Combine him with James possibly being able to play 8 games next year and we could field a good right side for half a season. 

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Regardless how well or how bad we do in the draft and FA, I feel we're two years from competing We have a real nice core, some yet unidentified players who may not be considered core yet will fill depth on this team. Have to think we can aspire to compete for the wild card next year, to overspend on Free Agents in hopes of challenging the Chiefs seems a bit foolish, they showed how much better they are this year, we need to address that competition level over the next two years.

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1 hour ago, Cutler06 said:

Regardless how well or how bad we do in the draft and FA, I feel we're two years from competing We have a real nice core, some yet unidentified players who may not be considered core yet will fill depth on this team. Have to think we can aspire to compete for the wild card next year, to overspend on Free Agents in hopes of challenging the Chiefs seems a bit foolish, they showed how much better they are this year, we need to address that competition level over the next two years.

Plus, if we want contention to be sustained - find cheap, young talent (draft, and midlevel 2nd contract guys).   Do NOT go for expensive vets.   It seldom pays off, and just delays our return to sustained contention.  When we are a WC hopeful who needs 1-2 guys to push us over the top - then go 2014 FA mode.  But you don't do that this offseason.   Stay the course, continue the growth.  Our 2021-2024 future will be brighter for it.

Edited by Broncofan

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After what Bolles did at the end of the Raiders game I don't want to see him in a Broncos uniform again - if it was a one off then I could live with it (and I have been excusing him for 3 years now) - but Bolles is likely to do something like that in every game and he will probably do it in a post-season game over the next few years and cost the Broncos the season. AAA used to p*ss me off with his anti-Bolles rants - now I am annoyed that he seems to be softening his view.

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Can someone with more knowledge of the salary cap give me a realistic estimate at what Denver’s FA dollars will look like?

I’ve read as low as $57M and potentially as high as $80M.....obviously $23M is a huge difference.

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, germ-x said:

Can someone with more knowledge of the salary cap give me a realistic estimate at what Denver’s FA dollars will look like?

I’ve read as low as $57M and potentially as high as $80M.....obviously $23M is a huge difference.

Broncos currently have just over $65million in cap space - (and under $0.5million in dead money)

We expect Flacco to be cut - if he is cut now there is a saving of $10million ($13million dead money) - if he is cut after 1 June then the cap saving goes up to $20million but accelerates the other $10million into dead money for 2021

I expect Ron Leary to be cut - a saving of $8.5million ($875K dead money)

Definitely gone should be Wadman - saving $660K (and several other back-ups could be cut with similar savings

The only other big cut that might be on the cards is Todd Davis - $4million in savings ($1million dead money)

So Flacco and Leary being cut brings the cap space up to about $84million

 

Then you have to factor in Free-agents

Jake Rodgers ERFA tender

Diontae Spencer ERFA tender

Trey Marshall ERFA tender

Davontae Harris ERFA tender 

Tim Patrick ERFA tender

 

After that we have unrestricted  free agents - and I am only listing the ones I think will be considered

Justin Simmons (Elway has spoken about the Franchise Tag - $13million)

Chris Harris Jr (although it looks like he is gone) ($12million)

Derek Wolfe (he was on $8million)

Shelby Harris (probably looking for about $6million)

Jeremiah Attaochu ($2million) 

DeVante Bausby (if he is healthy)

Conor McGovern (probably $4-5million)

Mike Purcell ($1.5million)

Joseph Jones ($1million)

Will Parks ($4-5million)

Dymonte Thomas ($1million)

Brandon Allen ($2million)

 

I expect Booker, Wilkinson, Riddick, Nelson, Cyrus Jones, to be gone

So by the time you signed the FAs you want - the cap space is likely to be back around $50m+

 

Edited by jolly red giant

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, jolly red giant said:

Broncos currently have just over $65million in cap space - (and under $0.5million in dead money)

We expect Flacco to be cut - if he is cut now there is a saving of $10million ($13million dead money) - if he is cut after 1 June then the cap saving goes up to $20million but accelerates the other $10million into dead money for 2021

I expect Ron Leary to be cut - a saving of $8.5million ($875K dead money)

Definitely gone should be Wadman - saving $660K (and several other back-ups could be cut with similar savings

The only other big cut that might be on the cards is Todd Davis - $4million in savings ($1million dead money)

So Flacco and Leary being cut brings the cap space up to about $84million

 

Then you have to factor in Free-agents

Jake Rodgers ERFA tender

Diontae Spencer ERFA tender

Trey Marshall ERFA tender

Davontae Harris ERFA tender 

Tim Patrick ERFA tender

 

After that we have unrestricted  free agents - and I am only listing the ones I think will be considered

Justin Simmons (Elway has spoken about the Franchise Tag - $13million)

Chris Harris Jr (although it looks like he is gone) ($12million)

Derek Wolfe (he was on $8million)

Shelby Harris (probably looking for about $6million)

Jeremiah Attaochu ($2million) 

DeVante Bausby (if he is healthy)

Conor McGovern (probably $4-5million)

Mike Purcell ($1.5million)

Joseph Jones ($1million)

Will Parks ($4-5million)

Dymonte Thomas ($1million)

Brandon Allen ($2million)

 

I expect Booker, Wilkinson, Riddick, Nelson, Cyrus Jones, to be gone

So by the time you signed the FAs you want - the cap space is likely to be back around $50m+

 

Shelby Harris will get a much bigger deal than 6M.  I don’t see him staying as a result.  
 

Harris Jr’ camp flatly rejected a 3/36 deal at the deadline.   He’s gone.  
 

Bausby is an ERFA.  He’s just a matter of whether or not he can continue his career.

Purcell is a RFA.  He likely gets an original round tender to stick.   I doubt anyone blows the bank to sign a run stuffing NT but there is some risk.   I doubt we put a 2nd round tender to lock him up.  
 

Simmons either gets tagged or he signs an extension.   
 

 

Edited by Broncofan

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1 hour ago, Broncofan said:

Harris Jr’ camp flatly rejected a 3/36 deal at the deadline.   He’s gone.  

I really think Chris just wants to test the market. He’s never been a FA before in his career and I think it’s just something he wants to go through.

I think Elway’s ceiling is the $12m/per, and another team could offer more, but I really think he just wants to test the waters and see.

I’m not counting on him coming back but I’m also not writing it off as a 100% certainty he’s gone either. P

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1 hour ago, Broncofan said:

Shelby Harris will get a much bigger deal than 6M.  I don’t see him staying as a result.  
 

Harris Jr’ camp flatly rejected a 3/36 deal at the deadline.   He’s gone.  
 

Bausby is an ERFA.  He’s just a matter of whether or not he can continue his career.

Purcell is a RFA.  He likely gets an original round tender to stick.   I doubt anyone blows the bank to sign a run stuffing NT but there is some risk.   I doubt we put a 2nd round tender to lock him up.  
 

Simmons either gets tagged or he signs an extension.   
 

 

why would we let Shelby walk if we have so much money? age? position? 

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, champ11 said:

why would we let Shelby walk if we have so much money? age? position? 

Positional devaluation - and remember, Elway rarely goes over whatever his "number" is.    At age 29 next year, Harris should be trying to get top dollar.    Elway's history supports a likely parting of ways as well.    Keep in mind that Purcell was the revelation as a scheme fit - and with Dremont Jones flashing, I suspect we'll see Elway stick to whatever he sees Harris as appropriate value-wise.   When you add in the necessity for Harris to get top-dollar on what is likely his only big payday he can count on, the tea leaves really strongly indicate Harris is going elsewhere as Elway won't simply match the market value.

Honestly, while I get the sentiment to keep Harris, re-upping the vets on their 3rd deal is a bad prop.   Sentimentality aside, for every hit, there are literally 8-9 misses.    As of now, the only aging 3rd contract hit were Manny Sanders pre-injury & Kareem Jackson - literally every other deal, it's been one that we've regretted.  And I'd say Jackson's special traits and fact neither plays a meat grinder position, make those signings more palatable.    For a position like Harris, it's not a deal-breaker, and probably for the best TBH.

Edited by Broncofan

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25 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Positional devaluation - and remember, Elway rarely goes over whatever his "number" is.    At age 29 next year, Harris should be trying to get top dollar.    Elway's history supports a likely parting of ways as well.    Keep in mind that Purcell was the revelation as a scheme fit - and with Dremont Jones flashing, I suspect we'll see Elway stick to whatever he sees Harris as appropriate value-wise.   When you add in the necessity for Harris to get top-dollar on what is likely his only big payday he can count on, the tea leaves really strongly indicate Harris is going elsewhere as Elway won't simply match the market value.

Honestly, while I get the sentiment to keep Harris, re-upping the vets on their 3rd deal is a bad prop.   Sentimentality aside, for every hit, there are literally 8-9 misses.    As of now, the only aging 3rd contract hit were Manny Sanders pre-injury & Kareem Jackson - literally every other deal, it's been one that we've regretted.  And I'd say Jackson's special traits and fact neither plays a meat grinder position, make those signings more palatable.    For a position like Harris, it's not a deal-breaker, and probably for the best TBH.

well said - I agree. I just hadn't thought about it much and it's kinda easy to forget that Harris is that old. although, his mileage has to be a bit lower than typical guys getting paid at that age

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I think Shelby is going to be a case of "good player paid to be great" and will be cut from whatever team he signs with in 2022. I like him but in no way do I think he's irreplaceable. And several media guys have been pretty direct in saying he doesn't want to come back. 

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On 12/28/2019 at 10:25 PM, BroncoBruin said:

I would add AJ Johnson to the "core" list. Should probably be looking to replace Davis with a better athlete next to him though. 

If Bryce Callahan can come back healthy, he's a very good #2 corner. 

Brandon McManus is probably an average NFL kicker with a big leg. That's a lot better than playing roulette with street FAs who will screw you at the worst time.

 

I know I keep suggesting Browns players but I would love love love for the Broncos to sign Joe Schobert in the offseason. The word is the Browns wont be bringing him back because they are morons but he would be the perfect run/cover LB the Broncos could use next to AJ. He might also solve the constant TE cover problem the Broncos have had since 2005.

Im fully off the Todd Davis bandwagon and view him as extremely average. 

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