How would you feel if Haskins isn’t the starter?

[RSkinGM]

I predict Dak dun messed up ! He gets hurt or plays poorly, the RedRifle comes in and wins , wins, wins, -The Cowboys then let Dak walk to some idiot team and they draft their future Q B next year- with a trade up !

[Skins212689]

15 minutes ago, PARROTHEAD said:

Dak played 5 games against teams picking top 4 in the draft. He was SHUTOUT by Indy. Dak had 2 wins over teams with winning records and 1 the defense won because he couldnt score 20. And with the easiest schedule, he took the best surrounding team a qb could ask for and won 8 games.

Case Keenum was in the exact same position with the Vikings. Played a MUCH TOUGHER schedule and won 13 games... Where was his contract? And where were you in his defense?

Best supporting cast in the world and only won 8 games against weak competition. Dak, Cousins and Goff. Neither one are worth it. Id dump either and grab Jamis or Foles on friendlier deals and still win 8-10 games while making the playoffs in the weak NFCE. Would allow me to continue to spend elsewhere to find wins. Instead of being locked down because a mediocre qb is hogging the cap space.

How many winning teams did Cousins beat before his big deal? Did that affect him getting his 84 million? Last I recall it didn't. So don't try to pull that with Dak. Prescott Cowboys beat Wilson's Seahawks in the Playoff and your telling me he should just accept any type of deal. 

Cousins has earned 150 million guaranteed, why shouldn't Prescott get between 215-250 in guaranteed money from the Cowboys? 

[PARROTHEAD]

6 minutes ago, Skins212689 said:

How many winning teams did Cousins beat before his big deal? Did that affect him getting his 84 million? Last I recall it didn't. So don't try to pull that with Dak. Prescott Cowboys beat Wilson's Seahawks in the Playoff and your telling me he should just accept any type of deal. 

Cousins has earned 150 million guaranteed, why shouldn't Prescott get between 215-250 in guaranteed money from the Cowboys? 

Ive told you repeatedly why he shouldnt. I told you in what you just quoted why he shouldnt.

The Vikings had just gone 13-3. They didnt think Case could take them to the next step. So they spent massively and desperately on Cousins thinking he was the missing piece. Because he was the best to be had on the market at that time. Its not that Cousins earned or deserved it. Its that the Vikings were in a window of having a dominate franchise and splurged everything they had thinking it could make a title run.

In this situation. Dak IS Case Keenum. Why the Cowboys didnt go after Brady or Cam to make a run with elite surrounding talent is beyond me. Or even go after Bridgewater, Foles or Jamis with knowing what Dak is like.

But since Cousins could draw 150 guaranteed. I guess someone at the talent level of Presscott should too if thats what you want to hear. Being as Cousins went 10-6, won a playoff game and Beat The Cowboys. While Dak went 8-8, won a playoff game.

[PARROTHEAD]

33 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

 

I would also say that while Dak isn't elite, his production the last two seasons has put him around the top 10, if not in the top 10. Biases for or against him would put him either in the top 10 or out of it.

 

Look at his surrounding cast Turtle. Its one of the best in the game. Dak was 5-1 in the NFCE. He was 2-3 against the rest of the NFC and 1-3 against the AFC.

If Dallas was in the NFCW or North theyd have won 5-6 games all year and Dak would be exposed for what he really is. The NFCE being so weak gave him his wins and put him in position to demand money though he only won 8 games. Not his total on field play. Cause that surrounding cast is talented.

[turtle28]

1 minute ago, PARROTHEAD said:

Ive told you repeatedly why he shouldnt. I told you in what you just quoted why he shouldnt.

The Vikings had just gone 13-3. They didnt think Case could take them to the next step. So they spent massively and desperately on Cousins thinking he was the missing piece. Because he was the best to be had on the market at that time. Its not that Cousins earned or deserved it. Its that the Vikings were in a window of having a dominate franchise and splurged everything they had thinking it could make a title run.

In this situation. Dak IS Case Keenum. Why the Cowboys didnt go after Brady or Cam to make a run with elite surrounding talent is beyond me. Or even go after Bridgewater, Foles or Jamis with knowing what Dak is like.

But since Cousins could draw 150 guaranteed. I guess someone at the talent level of Presscott should too if thats what you want to hear. Being as Cousins went 10-6, won a playoff game and Beat The Cowboys. While Dak went 8-8, won a playoff game.

Eh, I think Dak is better than Case Keenum, especially when you throw in Dak’s mobility beyond his passing ability - both which are better than Keenum’s and most QB's.

Keenum had one good year as a starter in a decade, that's it and it was with arguably the best WR tandem in the NFL at the time. The reason the Vikings won was bc they were one of the most complete teams in the league that year. I've said it before but they had an elite defense that actually won them some games that year and a good running game too. It wasn't Keenum winging it around and throwing 2 or 3 TDs every game and near or over 300 yards every game. He didn't carry the team, he threw for 237 yards a game and 1.5 TDs a game, that's average. So, his best year in the NFL was just average. 

Holding him up as a barometer or a comparison to Dak or Kirk really isn't an equal comparison to Dak or Kirk IMO who have both proven to be better QBs over the last 5 years than Keenum.

I mean last year was the perfect example. If Case was as good as Kirk he would have thrown for near or over 4,000 yards for the Redskins last year and 25 or more TDs but he was only average as out starter and in some games he was downright awful.

Of course him missing Jordan Reed & Vernon Davis probably had a lot to do with that. If he had one or both of them then, he probably would have been better.

[turtle28]

16 minutes ago, PARROTHEAD said:

Look at his surrounding cast Turtle. Its one of the best in the game. Dak was 5-1 in the NFCE. He was 2-3 against the rest of the NFC and 1-3 against the AFC.

If Dallas was in the NFCW or North theyd have won 5-6 games all year and Dak would be exposed for what he really is. The NFCE being so weak gave him his wins and put him in position to demand money though he only won 8 games. Not his total on field play. Cause that surrounding cast is talented.

Yes his supporting cast is great but let's not forget that Dak was doing well before he even had this entire supporting cast. He certainly beat the Redskins in 2016 before he had the WR corps he has now.

Also, he’s apart of that offense. If Dak isn't on his game, it doesn't matter who his supporting cast is bc the WRs won't get the ball on time and in the right spots. 

I certainly wouldn't put Dak in the top 5 of the league but I think he and Kirk are rated about the same and in the top 10 of QBs in the league.

Edited July 30, 2020 by turtle28

[turtle28]

52 minutes ago, RSkinGM said:

I predict Dak dun messed up ! He gets hurt or plays poorly, the RedRifle comes in and wins , wins, wins, -The Cowboys then let Dak walk to some idiot team and they draft their future Q B next year- with a trade up !

I think Dak should have signed the contract the Cowboys offered, at the same time I think he’ll get paid and will be making on avg $30 plus million a year ok a new contract next offseason or the one after by the Cowboys or someone else. Dak is in a Kirk Cousins situation right now with Dallas, but that doesn't mean that he isn't eventually going to get a huge contract extension from either the Cowboys or someone else - and as much as I don't like him bc he plays for the Cowboys - he's earned that huge contract extension.

 

[Skins212689]

55 minutes ago, PARROTHEAD said:

Ive told you repeatedly why he shouldnt. I told you in what you just quoted why he shouldnt.

The Vikings had just gone 13-3. They didnt think Case could take them to the next step. So they spent massively and desperately on Cousins thinking he was the missing piece. Because he was the best to be had on the market at that time. Its not that Cousins earned or deserved it. Its that the Vikings were in a window of having a dominate franchise and splurged everything they had thinking it could make a title run.

In this situation. Dak IS Case Keenum. Why the Cowboys didnt go after Brady or Cam to make a run with elite surrounding talent is beyond me. Or even go after Bridgewater, Foles or Jamis with knowing what Dak is like.

But since Cousins could draw 150 guaranteed. I guess someone at the talent level of Presscott should too if thats what you want to hear. Being as Cousins went 10-6, won a playoff game and Beat The Cowboys. While Dak went 8-8, won a playoff game.

Dak is no DAMN KEENUM! DAK is better than Kirk Cousins and Case Keenum. If I'm his agent I know he will be the Best Available QB on the market so Jerry play if you want to. Dak will be signed by another team. I gave you a team in the Colts who has the money and track record of making things happen so they can compete. 

Dak hits Free Agency next year he will be a Colt. They are currently paying Rivers 25 million for 1 year. 10-15 million more for Dak is nothing to them. Unless color is a problem because it damn sure wouldn't be because of Prescotts resume. 

He will be the Best Available QB on the Market just like the Non winning Playoff and non beating teams above .500 Kirk Cousins was when he got 84 million Guaranteed. The League messed up by doing that, not Prescott! 

Edited July 30, 2020 by Skins212689

[Skins212689]

1 hour ago, PARROTHEAD said:

Look at his surrounding cast Turtle. Its one of the best in the game. Dak was 5-1 in the NFCE. He was 2-3 against the rest of the NFC and 1-3 against the AFC.

If Dallas was in the NFCW or North theyd have won 5-6 games all year and Dak would be exposed for what he really is. The NFCE being so weak gave him his wins and put him in position to demand money though he only won 8 games. Not his total on field play. Cause that surrounding cast is talented.

A number of weapons on offense is what you want for your QB. Facts Prescott was 5-1 is his division. Surrounded by talent Dak is 40-25, why shouldn't he get paid that way? 

Kirk Cousins was paid 84 million with a record of 26-23-1. People can have the opinion I'm Kirk Cousins hater. I'm not. His deal just opened my eyes and I know it opened the eyes of the players as well. The market value for the QB has sprung up. That's just what it is.

Why wouldn't a team needing a Franchise QB pay market value (35 million) for a QB available with the record of 40-25?

Yet you Enhanced it when the Best Available QB record was 26-23-1. These are #Facts 

 

[PARROTHEAD]

7 minutes ago, Skins212689 said:

Dak is no DAMN KEENUM! DAK is better than Kirk Cousins and Case Keenum. If I'm his agent I know he will be the Best Available QB on the market so Jerry play if you want to. Dak will be signed by another team. I gave you a team in the Colts who has the money and track record of making things happen so they can compete. 

Dak hits Free Agency next year he will be a Colt. They are currently paying Rivers 25 million for 1 year. 10-15 million more for Dak is nothing to them. Unless color is a problem because it damn sure wouldn't be because of Prescotts resume. 

He will be the Best Available QB on the Market just like the Non winning Playoff and non beating teams above .500 Kirk Cousins was when he got 84 million Guaranteed. The League messed up by doing that, not Prescott! 

 All that matters to you is Cousins color. All you want to talk about is Cousins because of his color. No other qb, not what anyone does or how good/bad they play.

And your hate against Cousins is sickening. Hes done nothing wrong, is a good man, a good father and got lucky he became a FA at the right moment while the Vikings were in desperate need. And instead of being happy for him, you wish for someone else to have it even better out of race alone.  Im done here.

[MikeT14]

9 minutes ago, PARROTHEAD said:

 All that matters to you is Cousins color. All you want to talk about is Cousins because of his color. No other qb, not what anyone does or how good/bad they play.

 

 

1 hour ago, Skins212689 said:

Unless color is a problem because it damn sure wouldn't be because of Prescotts resume. 

 

Both of you, end this part now. Don't even touch it. 

[Skins212689]

Just now, PARROTHEAD said:

 All that matters to you is Cousins color. All you want to talk about is Cousins because of his color. No other qb, not what anyone does or how good/bad they play.

And your hate against Cousins is sickening. Hes done nothing wrong, is a good man, a good father and got lucky he became a FA at the right moment while the Vikings were in desperate need. And instead of being happy for him, you wish for someone else to have it even better out of race alone.  Im done here.

Look at Cam Newton deals, with his resume why is he getting paid less than Chase Daniels? Why is Cam Newton getting paid less than every BACKUP on the League?

Why did the league try to import rules where Teams would get extra picks for hiring Minorities? Sir these are Facts about how Color plays part in the league. 

Kirk Cousins was the QB of the Team I Love and his deal opened my eyes to a point I stand by, PLAYERS GET YOUR GUARANTEED MONEY. Now it's Prescott turn. 

 

[MikeT14]

2 minutes ago, Skins212689 said:

Look at Cam Newton deals, with his resume why is he getting paid less than Chase Daniels? Why is Cam Newton getting paid less than every BACKUP on the League?

Why did the league try to import rules where Teams would get extra picks for hiring Minorities? Sir these are Facts about how Color plays part in the league. 

Kirk Cousins was the QB of the Team I Love and his deal opened my eyes to a point I stand by, PLAYERS GET YOUR GUARANTEED MONEY. Now it's Prescott turn. 

 

DROP IT NOW. LAST CHANCE. 

[offbyone]

I don't even know why we are still debating the Cousins thing.  To me the debate about cousins was if he was just a starting qb or a great qb.  I think the only reason we all got so worked up about it was his giant contract and what that implied about him. 

However, that debate is null and void as far as I am concerned.  Cousins giant market changing contract looks like nothing these days.  Any starting qb in the nfl signing a contract in his prime would get a contract as good or better than cousins and it isn't like it has been 10 years since he signed, it was just a few years ago.  We still have yet to see another qb in the situation he was (franchised in their youth into full borne free agency).  It is likely that another qb would have gotten more in the same situation anyways. 

All the while, Cousins is still playing as he always has, pretty darn good, great at times and also totally flopping at times.  There aren't many qbs that can put a team on their backs regularly and he is not one of them.  But he is a decent starting qb and with the a consistently good team around him he could probably win it all.  

 

Now, back to haskins.  Similar to many of our past qbs (Cousins included), the debate is often whether these young qbs are put in the proper situation to succeed.  This seems critical for most young qbs. 

Like haskins or not, this guy is being put in an incredibly tough situation and one which will make it hard for him to succeed.  Last year with the HC being fired mid season, and all the drama.  Now, he doesn't even get a proper training camp with the new staff and offense.  I am optimistic about him, but really I have no idea if he is the guy or not.  But I would like to see him get every chance to be the guy because if we could find a real qb it would change our fortunes.

Personally, I don't give a flying crap about alex smith.  He played half a season for us and did so poorly despite the record.  We can blame it on the offense or whatever, but he was nothing special here.  Even his last year in kansas city, when he finally had his "break through" year there, the fans were calling for him to be benched after half the season.  He is just a distraction at this point as far as I am concerned and I strongly hope that he doesn't take a single snap away from Haskins.  If he wants to coach and help haskins that way, then he should retire.  Otherwise I would prefer if he stays on IR or is traded.

[naptownskinsfan]

I’m going to go ahead and lock this for a couple hours so everyone can cool down and we can get back to the topic at hand, which is Dwayne Haskins.

if we want to continue the Cousins/Dakota talk, I suggest we take it to the NFL Comparisons forum because this isn’t the forum to go that in depth on this discussion.

Also, we will not bring race into future discussions. Consider that an unofficial warning for everyone. Read the forum rules for a refresher.