The NFL has an Offensive Line Problem

[BleedTheClock]

Part of it is also because play action is dead. If teams could effectively play action and consistently kept themselves out of bad 3rd and long situations, it'd make the jobs of NFL OL a lot easier. DE's are just teeing off on teams that can't run the ball and it's impossible to stop. I also hate how teams throw 90% of the time on 3rd and 4 and 95% of the time on 3rd and 5. Those should be running downs. Want to keep your QB upright? Run the rock more.

[Iamcanadian]

On 9/17/2017 at 11:03 AM, warfelg said:

This is what I came in here to say.  They were going on about it in depth on NFLRadio the other day about how these guys coming in now are just athletes with very little technique or skills that are asked to change over.  They talked about how many college linemen are also in the 290-310 range to keep up and the NFL still wants these guys at the 310-330 range to hold up against the run.

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Most linemen add weight when they come into the pros, it is not unusual for those 290lbs. college OLmen to suddenly gain 20 to 30lbs. in their rookie year. As for not knowing a lot of technique, that has a lot more to do with most NFL players entering the draft as juniors, robbing them of an extra year of training which was not the case in previous eras and when you add in that the new CBA limits the training and practice time, a team is allowed to do, this again, makes it all that more difficult to teach any positions the technique needed to play in the NFL. So, it is a double whammy, 1)enter the league a year earlier, so you are a rawer prospect to begin with and 2) find yourself in a league which severely limits today's players from training and practicing too much.

 

 

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Teams are going to start going for smaller school systems that still run the pro-set offenses at a regular tempo to field them.

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NO, teams will continue to draft top athletes and then train them as much as possible in pro techniques.

Let's also not forget that this is a chicken and egg argument.  Because at the start of spreads, there were still good quality OL play out there, but of course DL was still big lugs too.  Then colleges started taking good sizable athletes, and playing them at DE and DT.  So now to keep up the offenses needed better athletes at the OT and OG positions.

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Your forgetting that each college has only so many top athletes, they do not grow on trees. Interior OLmen really have not changed all that much since the pre 300lbs. eras

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College spread offenses have forced the same changes you are seeing in the NFL, smaller, quicker and if possible, faster defensive players who can defend the pass far better, but give up a lot in run defense. To cope with these smaller, quicker and faster defensive players, the OL has been forced to also adjust to this type of athlete by following a similar trend.

Torry Holt had the best story too: He was at a college spring practice (didn't say which one) and they had a freshman who was a good athlete, good hands, good size that was slated to play OT.  Upon noticing his athleticism, the DL coach pulled him aside and was doing some DE drills with him.  Holt said he went back to the school in August, and low and behold, that kid was now a full time DE.  So he talked at length about the guys with potential to be decent OT's are being poached by defensive coaches and turned into ok DE's/DT's because they have this size and length to play against the run and pass.  Really sounded like Holt was placing some of the blame on college programs and how the coach looking good means more than teaching players the right thing.

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This is really not a strong point to this argument. Since the beginning of college football, HC's, every spring, have had to make choices as to where they place their better athletes, i.e. RB or DB, OL or DL, TE or LB, WR or again DB, QB or also DB, etc. etc. etc. Pro scouts and GM's for pro teams, keep extensive notes on HC's tendencies as to where they place their better athletes and draft accordingly. That is why some colleges are known as LB u., or WR u., or DB u. etc. etc. If Holt was a serious draftnik, he would know this and should not have been surprised by the switch.

One thing is for sure, college HC's only care about one of their players getting drafted high, because they use it as a recruiting tool. They actually have little interest in teaching pro technique, their priority is winning and if it works in college, they are not going to change a thing. Ask any pro HC, assistant coaches, scouts or GM's and they would all tell you that they wish players came into the league even sooner, because they have to spend a lot of time breaking rookies of bad technique learned in college, at every position.

[Supersuavesky]

This is because all the talent goes to the defensive side of the ball. When a player has even the slightest bit of an athletic advantage they're made D-lineman. 

 

 

[titans0021]

It has taken less than a half of watching Greg Robinson "play" left tackle for me to agree with this.

[Jakuvious]

7 hours ago, AkronsWitness said:

No idea. I remember when we played the Cheifs sometime in 2015 or 2016 the announcers were pointing out him getting ran over a bunch of times and saying how he was having struggles to the point where a position change was needed. Dont know how that ended up.

Fisher has been quality for the past year or two. He was abysmal in 2013 and 2014. Solid in 2015 and 2016, and continuing as such now. He's not great, but he's good. Average to maybe a little above. I'm not familiar enough with the LTs around the league to say definitively. He did struggle immensely against James Harrison last year, so it's possible that would be what you're thinking of. Otherwise there hasn't been any talk or criticism that severe in a few years.

[43M]

I dont think its any worse than previous years.     There are usually 10 teams with really bad OLines.....15 or so with average/mediocre OLines and 5-7 with good-great OLines.      Its been that way for as long as I remember and it still seems to be the case now.

Im just happy the Steelers are finally one of the better ones....even if its been a bit disappointing the first 2 weeks of 2017.   

[Dr LBC]

On 9/17/2017 at 7:28 AM, johndeere1707 said:

I also feel like there hasn't been many quality lineman coming out in recent years. 

There have been, but they're not getting the hype because (and I do think some of the media has rubbed off on FO's around the league, but also just the "copycat" nature of the league in general) there are fewer and fewer elite OL prospects and the ones that draw the elite monikers tend to be more because they're coming out of elite programs or were 4- & 5-star recruits, and thus are getting forgiven for technical deficiencies (specifically lacking hand and/or footwork) because of program name-value and "tools."

We've also seen an increased prevalence (in the past decade) of "gimmick" offenses (spread, option, etc.) which tend to result in lesser fundamentals and technical development in the players coming out of those systems because the system just doesn't ask it of them, so it's easier for them to look good on physical gifts alone with the system covering up for their deficiencies before they have a chance to rear themselves.

I think OL is one of those spots where, assuming a certain threshold is met in terms of size, strength, and lateral agility, the "strength of competition" gets way to oversold.  Guys with solid technique are still going to be able to use that technique to help them at the next level regardless of whether they're coming out of a Power 5 conference or a D2 school.

[Hunter2_1]

9 hours ago, Uncle Buck said:

One contributing factor to the degradation in offensive line play could be the reduction in contact drills allowed in practices these days.  It has to be pretty hard for an O-lineman to develop his craft when more often than not, all he has to do is stand up and hold his hands up as the offense practices each play.  It used to be that every practice included a lot of contact drills.  This allowed the O-line to develop their skills against actual defensive players trying to get by them.  Nowadays, the linemen aren't allowed to do what they need to do to get better.  Does anyone else think this could be a significant part of the problem? 

Yes, I do.

Lack of adequate practice has come up a lot now. 

Presumably, they practice against the DL....so how does this lack of practice not hit the DL as hard? I guess it's easier to destroy something than it is to create/protect something.

[Hunter2_1]

7 hours ago, titans0021 said:

It has taken less than a half of watching Greg Robinson "play" left tackle for me to agree with this.

He's brutal so far. Even in the Texans game, most of the line were stonewalling HOU, but Robinson was left on his face often. 

[TitanLegend]

1 minute ago, Hunter2_1 said:

He's brutal so far. Even in the Texans game, most of the line were stonewalling HOU, but Robinson was left on his face often. 

Wrong Robinson. You're thinking of Cam Robinson.

Cam is really a guard and I'm not entirely sure why the Jags are playing him at LT(or why any team would play him at tackle after what he showed in college), but I guess he's the best they've got for LT right now.

And let me clear this up: I don't think Cam has been horrible at LT, just isn't good. Kick step is damn near nonexistent, shown off perfectly numerous times in college, and Brian Orakpo showed it again on Sunday on his strip sack of Bortles. Dude has insane power though and could dominate on the interior where in pass pro he doesn't have to worry nearly as much about guys getting around him with speed.

[Hunter2_1]

1 hour ago, TitanLegend said:

Wrong Robinson. You're thinking of Cam Robinson.

Cam is really a guard and I'm not entirely sure why the Jags are playing him at LT(or why any team would play him at tackle after what he showed in college), but I guess he's the best they've got for LT right now.

And let me clear this up: I don't think Cam has been horrible at LT, just isn't good. Kick step is damn near nonexistent, shown off perfectly numerous times in college, and Brian Orakpo showed it again on Sunday on his strip sack of Bortles. Dude has insane power though and could dominate on the interior where in pass pro he doesn't have to worry nearly as much about guys getting around him with speed.

Ah yes, Greg. Doh.

[Shady Slim]

i think we still have some very quality o-lines like PIT, DAL, OAK

 

but for me the problem is the bad o-lines like HOU and NYG are properly very very bad, and there's a huge inequality between the top and bottom with a thinner middle

[Hunter2_1]

4 players so far this year are getting pressured on more than 40% of their drop backs. Managing an offense with that pressure is impossible. Cannot sustain any good play whilst being under that much pressure for that amount of time. 

 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

<watches one drive of Seattle Seahawks football>

Yes I agree.

[MWil23]

It's the perfect storm of all of the following:

*College linemen who aren't ready/don't have the proper technique or training coming from their offensive systems

*The lack of an emphasis on consistently running the football in today's NFL

*Less time in practice with pads on means more sloppiness on footwork and hand engagement techniques. These guys especially need the padded time for these reasons, along with drive blocking.

*Free agency means guys leaving teams and getting paid big checks elsewhere makes for revolving doors when most know that offensive lines need time to gel as a unit.