Free Agency Discussion

[BleedTheClock]

18 hours ago, mtmmike said:

Due you guys think that we can trade Hubbard and Vernon as part of packages to move up 

No

[buno67]

1 hour ago, mtmmike said:

How many de averaging 5.5 sacks per year and only playing a average of 10.5

Games per year got 15,000,000 per year.

5.5? He is avg 6.8 sacks a season. Also avg 7.2 sacks as a starter. Also he avg 14 games a year. Over his career. 
 

also last year he was one of the most productive pass rushers. He wasn’t getting the sacks out he was applying plenty of pressure on opposing QBs

[mtmmike]

Your right I am sure he would get 20,000,000 a year if you were the owner

[BleedTheClock]

2 hours ago, buno67 said:

5.5? He is avg 6.8 sacks a season. Also avg 7.2 sacks as a starter. Also he avg 14 games a year. Over his career. 
 

also last year he was one of the most productive pass rushers. He wasn’t getting the sacks out he was applying plenty of pressure on opposing QB

Yeah Clowney is a beast. Is he a top 5 DE? No. But you don’t need to be to vastly improve our pass rushing potential. He would be facing single blocks routinely. Our interiors would never get doubled. Plus he is a beast against the run. And we are atrocious at stopping off tackle runs. 
 

I’d definitely be in the Clowney market. You’re going to pay more than he’s worth. That’s free agency. But we are so damn close that I wouldn’t mind going all-in. 

[DawgX]

Why do you guys even bother?

[Thomas5737]

To be fair Vernon averages more sacks and QB hits per start than Clowney in their careers.

We put a lot of resources into the D-:ine last year and got no real return. Maybe it was coaching but if it was maybe coaching can help the guys we have or much cheaper acquisitions than Clowney.

We still have a lot of positions that need addressed before a DE.

[Kiwibrown]

9 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

To be fair Vernon averages more sacks and QB hits per start than Clowney in their careers.

We put a lot of resources into the D-:ine last year and got no real return. Maybe it was coaching but if it was maybe coaching can help the guys we have or much cheaper acquisitions than Clowney.

We still have a lot of positions that need addressed before a DE.

I am in the reluctantly keep vernon camp. One option id consider is griffen, two years 16 million total. Total cost of Vernon over two years, more mental health issues, less physical healh ones, better pass rusher worse against the run. Could afford both this year.

[DawgX]

Yeah I don't get why people want to cut Vernon. If he were to be cut, I wouldn't be too mad about it but it just doesn't make sense.

His play was disappointing last year, but it's not like he was a bum. He's certainly overpaid, but this is his last year and it's not like we're in dire need for immediate cap space, nor do we have a definite better option than him currently. Let him play out his final year and maybe he'll bounce back where he'll get a nice contract on a new team and thus give us a potential comp pick. Worse case scenario, he doesn't have a good year and he just walks next year.

[buno67]

30 minutes ago, Kiwibrown said:

I am in the reluctantly keep vernon camp. One option id consider is griffen, two years 16 million total. Total cost of Vernon over two years, more mental health issues, less physical healh ones, better pass rusher worse against the run. Could afford both this year.

better pass rusher? Vernon was more productive last year when it came to pressuring QBs. Pass-rush productivity (percentage of snaps, 200 or more, with pressure generated, Vernon was 13.2% Griffen was 12.1%. Vernon graded better against the run than any Browns defensive lineman, other than Sheldon Richardson, last season.

[NudeTayne]

52 minutes ago, DawgX said:

Yeah I don't get why people want to cut Vernon. If he were to be cut, I wouldn't be too mad about it but it just doesn't make sense.

His play was disappointing last year, but it's not like he was a bum. He's certainly overpaid, but this is his last year and it's not like we're in dire need for immediate cap space, nor do we have a definite better option than him currently. Let him play out his final year and maybe he'll bounce back where he'll get a nice contract on a new team and thus give us a potential comp pick. Worse case scenario, he doesn't have a good year and he just walks next year.

Your right I am sure he would get 20,000,000 a year if you were the owner

[Kiwibrown]

10 minutes ago, buno67 said:

better pass rusher? Vernon was more productive last year when it came to pressuring QBs. Pass-rush productivity (percentage of snaps, 200 or more, with pressure generated, Vernon was 13.2% Griffen was 12.1%. Vernon graded better against the run than any Browns defensive lineman, other than Sheldon Richardson, last season.

Griffen had 8 sacks and 24 qb hits in 15 games to vernons 3.5 and less, from a gross perspective griffen is better 

[DizzyDean]

On another topic.  I know this will not happen, but I would love to see us sign Winston.

His market is ice cold.  He will have to take a backup role somewhere.

Everyone knows that I love baker.  I also love Keenum as a system guy backup/teacher.

But I would love to have Winston as a reclamation product to be coached up, sit and learn for a couple of years behind Baker.

if Baker does not take the step forward that I believe he will to become elite, then if Winston seems to be progressing, and Baker is slightly above average, trade Baker.  
 

Also, injuries happen.  Baker could be setting the league on fire and go down.  Winston coukd then come in and not miss a beat after sitting and learning.

The next off season we keep whichever we choose and sell the other for a King’s ransom in trade.

[buno67]

1 hour ago, Kiwibrown said:

Griffen had 8 sacks and 24 qb hits in 15 games to vernons 3.5 and less, from a gross perspective griffen is better 

but yet Vernon created more pressures on passes than Griffen. 13.2% to 12.1%

So you are box score scouting, while a stat that accounted every snap by each player, states Vernon created more QB pressures compared to Griffen.

How many sacks did we see the Browns DL miss out on because of the secondary couldn't cover. Hell minny had the 7th best secondary and 3rd most INTs in the league cause they had a back 7 that forced QBs to hold onto the ball

[buno67]

1 hour ago, DizzyDean said:

On another topic.  I know this will not happen, but I would love to see us sign Winston.

His market is ice cold.  He will have to take a backup role somewhere.

Everyone knows that I love baker.  I also love Keenum as a system guy backup/teacher.

But I would love to have Winston as a reclamation product to be coached up, sit and learn for a couple of years behind Baker.

if Baker does not take the step forward that I believe he will to become elite, then if Winston seems to be progressing, and Baker is slightly above average, trade Baker.  
 

Also, injuries happen.  Baker could be setting the league on fire and go down.  Winston coukd then come in and not miss a beat after sitting and learning.

The next off season we keep whichever we choose and sell the other for a King’s ransom in trade.

Hell no to Winston. Dude is a turnover machine. He was in college and has been so far in his NFL career. He isnt going to suddenly learn how to not throw into coverages. That has been his MO. We think Baker is a knuckle head, Winston is worst. Prolly would become worst as he is not a starter. 

[DizzyDean]

26 minutes ago, buno67 said:

Hell no to Winston. Dude is a turnover machine. He was in college and has been so far in his NFL career. He isnt going to suddenly learn how to not throw into coverages. That has been his MO. We think Baker is a knuckle head, Winston is worst. Prolly would become worst as he is not a starter. 

Ever heard of a guy named Steve Young?