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WizeGuy

WizeGuy

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29 minutes ago, BobbyPhil1781 said:

Read this as well which is good. Also read that if it hadn't, they said they could've developed a new vaccine that would be effective against it and that would only take 6 hours. I'm sure the normal testing would have to be done though. Still, pretty amazing what science has been able to accomplish with this. 

Interesting question. The flu vaccine is altered every year, but I assume it does not have to go through the same rigorous safety trials that the COVID vaccine went through. I wonder if the same would be true if they were to alter the COVID vaccine.  

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WizeGuy

WizeGuy

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This is a very interesting article about the sever allergic reactions to the Pfizer vaccine. Is this an ingredient that can be altered while still keeping that 95% effectiveness?

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/12/suspicions-grow-nanoparticles-pfizer-s-covid-19-vaccine-trigger-rare-allergic-reactions

"Severe allergy-like reactions in at least eight people who received the COVID-19 vaccine produced by Pfizer and BioNTech over the past 2 weeks may be due to a compound in the packaging of the messenger RNA (mRNA) that forms the vaccine’s main ingredient, scientists say. A similar mRNA vaccine developed by Moderna, which was authorized for emergency use in the United States on Friday, also contains the compound, polyethylene glycol (PEG)."

"Anaphylactic reactions can occur with any vaccine, but are usually extremely rare—about one per 1 million doses. As of 19 December, the United States had seen six cases of anaphylaxis among 272,001 people who received the COVID-19 vaccine"

The good news is- there are other vaccines on the way that likely don't contain this ingredient. Also, as more data comes in- we'll have a better idea of what the culprit is and can make adjustments accordingly The bad news is- since these severe reactions are occurring at such a high rate it may force the CDC to recommend a larger fraction of population avoid these vaccines. Is this an accurate statement? @ramssuperbowl99 @Deadpulse @Shanedorf

Edited by WizeGuy
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BobbyPhil1781

BobbyPhil1781

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6 minutes ago, WizeGuy said:

Interesting question. The flu vaccine is altered every year, but I assume it does not have to go through the same rigorous safety trials that the COVID vaccine went through. I wonder if the same would be true if they were to alter the COVID vaccine.  

A very valid point! Didn't consider this. 

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ramssuperbowl99

ramssuperbowl99

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, WizeGuy said:

This is a very interesting article about the sever allergic reactions to the Pfizer vaccine. Is this an ingredient that can be altered while still keeping that 95% effectiveness?

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/12/suspicions-grow-nanoparticles-pfizer-s-covid-19-vaccine-trigger-rare-allergic-reactions

"Severe allergy-like reactions in at least eight people who received the COVID-19 vaccine produced by Pfizer and BioNTech over the past 2 weeks may be due to a compound in the packaging of the messenger RNA (mRNA) that forms the vaccine’s main ingredient, scientists say. A similar mRNA vaccine developed by Moderna, which was authorized for emergency use in the United States on Friday, also contains the compound, polyethylene glycol (PEG)."

"Anaphylactic reactions can occur with any vaccine, but are usually extremely rare—about one per 1 million doses. As of 19 December, the United States had seen six cases of anaphylaxis among 272,001 people who received the COVID-19 vaccine"

The good news is- there are other vaccines on the way that likely don't contain this ingredient. Also, as more data comes in- we'll have a better idea of what the culprit is and can make adjustments accordingly The bad news is- since these severe reactions are occurring at such a high rate it may force the CDC to recommend a larger fraction of population avoid these vaccines. Is this an accurate statement? @ramssuperbowl99 @Deadpulse @Shanedorf

You're going to need PEG for the stability and solubility. It's a pain in the butt to deal with for allergies, and in high dose levels it can be toxic, but it's not needed in those types of concentrations here and you do need it to keep the vaccine stable and the strands from being decomposed so quickly in the blood.

I hate PEG though. Never PEGylate your drugs unless you have no other choice. It sucks for precisely stuff like this.

 

EDIT: Conceptually, you can think of PEG as a "super soap" for the body, in that it lets us dose very water-friendly, or fat-friendly stuff and still get it across cell membranes (which are fatty) and distribute in your body water (which is...water). Because mRNA is very very water soluble, if we didn't have PEG the drug wouldn't get out of it's initial injection area. 

Edited by ramssuperbowl99
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WizeGuy

WizeGuy

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5 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

You're going to need PEG for the stability and solubility. It's a pain in the butt to deal with for allergies, and in high dose levels it can be toxic, but it's not needed in those types of concentrations here and you do need it to keep the vaccine stable and the strands from being decomposed so quickly in the blood.

I hate PEG though. Never PEGylate your drugs unless you have no other choice. It sucks for precisely stuff like this.

 

EDIT: Conceptually, you can think of PEG as a "super soap" for the body, in that it lets us dose very water-friendly, or fat-friendly stuff and still get it across cell membranes (which are fatty) and distribute in your body water (which is...water). Because mRNA is very very water soluble, if we didn't have PEG the drug wouldn't get out of it's initial injection area. 

Interesting. I wonder how the will influence the CDC's recommendation on who should receive the vaccine? Also, I wonder what affect this will have on the use of mRNA vaccines in the future? Obviously, during a pandemic- this is a much easier pill to swallow, but for less pressing issues perhaps mRNA vaccines aren't the way to go? 

(This is all very new to me, obviously, so I apologize if my question are mundane!)

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ramssuperbowl99

ramssuperbowl99

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1 minute ago, WizeGuy said:

Interesting. I wonder how the will influence the CDC's recommendation on who should receive the vaccine? Also, I wonder what affect this will have on the use of mRNA vaccines in the future? Obviously, during a pandemic- this is a much easier pill to swallow, but for less pressing issues perhaps mRNA vaccines aren't the way to go? 

(This is all very new to me, obviously, so I apologize if my question are mundane!)

The problem with PEG is that you end up with these big polymers that don't really do anything in the liver if you keep dosing or if the size of the PEG polymers that you made is a little larger than you'd expect. But in this case, it's a single dose or 2 dose vaccine, so the accumulation after multiple doses obviously wouldn't really apply.

It's a negative for mRNA vaccines in general that they are so unstable. If it seems really easy to make an mRNA vaccine (the oversimplified version is that you just read off the viral gene sequence and go from there), it's because most of the IP in this area is related to other coatings and whatnot that are there to try and make the mRNA last a little longer before the body breaks it down.

PEG is the best general way we have to add stability, and it sucks, but it's worth it in this case. But yeah, if you have a medication for ED that's a once daily pill and you PEGylate it, you're wasting everyone's time and your own money.

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BobbyPhil1781

BobbyPhil1781

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32 minutes ago, mission27 said:

How much of the 80% is explained by vitamin D deficiency being prevalent in otherwise at risk groups (like old people and fat people)?

Obesity is absolutely a problem as well. Not just for covid but everyone in general lol. I read Africa hasn't been hit very hard by this. Not an obese nation that gets a lot of sunlight. Data regarding this virus seems to vary depending on the source and I didn't read multiple so this could be incorrect

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squire12

squire12

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5 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Very different virus and fallout, but the correlation between Vitamin D deficiency in Covid and the Spanish flu is remarkably similar. 

Vitamin D deficiency is pretty high across the general population.  And really high in some subsets.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21310306/

"The overall prevalence rate of vitamin D deficiency was 41.6%, with the highest rate seen in blacks (82.1%), followed by Hispanics (69.2%). Vitamin D deficiency was significantly more common among those who had no college education, were obese, with a poor health status, hypertension, low high-density lipoprotein cholesterol level, or not consuming milk daily (all P < .001). Multivariate analyses showed that being from a non-white race, not college educated, obese, having low high-density lipoprotein cholesterol, poor health, and no daily milk consumption were all significantly, independently associated with vitamin D deficiency (all P < .05)."

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MWil23

MWil23

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4 minutes ago, squire12 said:

Vitamin D deficiency is pretty high across the general population.  And really high in some subsets.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21310306/

"The overall prevalence rate of vitamin D deficiency was 41.6%, with the highest rate seen in blacks (82.1%), followed by Hispanics (69.2%). Vitamin D deficiency was significantly more common among those who had no college education, were obese, with a poor health status, hypertension, low high-density lipoprotein cholesterol level, or not consuming milk daily (all P < .001). Multivariate analyses showed that being from a non-white race, not college educated, obese, having low high-density lipoprotein cholesterol, poor health, and no daily milk consumption were all significantly, independently associated with vitamin D deficiency (all P < .05)."

Ignorant question on my part, but:

Aside from spending time outside, what dietary factors help with Vitamin D?

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