Crowell is grumpy.

[Rod Johnson]

It's what we already said in the game recap thread.  It seems like most of our running plays are shotgun handoffs and Crow isn't a patient runner that can make the right decision in that set.  He's good at getting the ball with a couple steps of steam and hitting the seam fast.  We can't run the ball under center because Kizer probably isn't comfortable passing when taking the snap like that.  Our backfield is disjointed and it's killing the run game.

[mistakey]

3 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

http://www.whio.com/news/local/payday-browns-crowell-wants-ball-more-contract-extension/WSF45foYfdsdrOQev0PUVK/

Highlights: He's questioning the play calling and can't stop thinking about his extension.

This is no bueno IMO.

1st round running back here we COME

[candyman93]

Don't care how he feels. He's gonna be let go in the offseason.

[matt27j]

3 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Our team got younger from last year to this year.  We're starting a 21 yo qb. 

We aren't losing because of coaching.

We lost Tramon, Haden, Greco/Cam/Austin P., Barnidge, Demario Davis, Mccown/RG3 and replaced them with more talented players in Kizer, Pep, Zeit/Tret, Njoku. 

I don't expect perfection from the coaches, but want to see them learn from mistakes just as expected of players. Two seasons now the offensive line motions do more harm than good, two games now peppers missing tackles because he has to break down like he's a punt return gunner. Two games of giving a rookie QB the ball in RZ situations. 

No other teams do these things, and for good reason. The rewards don't outweigh the costs. It's double edged as well. Give the rookie QB the ball in RZ where things are more congested and more likely to turn it over. Take your safety out of position to create turnovers. So we both put ourselves in position to give the ball away and less of a chance to take the ball away when turnovers are probably the most important stat in determining W/L. 

It's all about putting your players in the best positions to succeed and win together. It's why players are speaking out. It's why the media asks them about it and they just spurt out the same answers everyone else does. You can tell they are asking themselves the same questions and on the field they appear disinterested. If the coaches ignore the obvious and say well it's because your not buying in or getting the results I want then things are only going to degrade.

For example, Hue calls out Britt and then tries to get him involved on a BS wr screen with linemen flexed out. Obviously it's a wr screen you can't do anything else without someone protecting the QB. That's why that stuff is so stupid. That's not putting Britt or anyone else in position to make a good impression. They're just out their doing weird stuff that makes no sense, makes the OL run, and wastes play clock. 

Next time Pep misses a tackle sprinting from deep I hope he yells at Greg to put him in better position than to take all the blame as usual. 

Sucks for me to complain but I just want to see players be put in the right situation whether it be position, game plan, whatever. People blaming players when it's not their fault irks me considering how I follow them from college to the pros. This Peppers thing is going to drive me nuts considering the plays he could be making instead of mistakes that would've been avoided had he been in normal position.

 

[DizzyDean]

1 hour ago, matt27j said:

We lost Tramon, Haden, Greco/Cam/Austin P., Barnidge, Demario Davis, Mccown/RG3 and replaced them with more talented players in Kizer, Pep, Zeit/Tret, Njoku. 

I don't expect perfection from the coaches, but want to see them learn from mistakes just as expected of players. Two seasons now the offensive line motions do more harm than good, two games now peppers missing tackles because he has to break down like he's a punt return gunner. Two games of giving a rookie QB the ball in RZ situations. 

No other teams do these things, and for good reason. The rewards don't outweigh the costs. It's double edged as well. Give the rookie QB the ball in RZ where things are more congested and more likely to turn it over. Take your safety out of position to create turnovers. So we both put ourselves in position to give the ball away and less of a chance to take the ball away when turnovers are probably the most important stat in determining W/L. 

It's all about putting your players in the best positions to succeed and win together. It's why players are speaking out. It's why the media asks them about it and they just spurt out the same answers everyone else does. You can tell they are asking themselves the same questions and on the field they appear disinterested. If the coaches ignore the obvious and say well it's because your not buying in or getting the results I want then things are only going to degrade.

For example, Hue calls out Britt and then tries to get him involved on a BS wr screen with linemen flexed out. Obviously it's a wr screen you can't do anything else without someone protecting the QB. That's why that stuff is so stupid. That's not putting Britt or anyone else in position to make a good impression. They're just out their doing weird stuff that makes no sense, makes the OL run, and wastes play clock. 

Next time Pep misses a tackle sprinting from deep I hope he yells at Greg to put him in better position than to take all the blame as usual. 

Sucks for me to complain but I just want to see players be put in the right situation whether it be position, game plan, whatever. People blaming players when it's not their fault irks me considering how I follow them from college to the pros. This Peppers thing is going to drive me nuts considering the plays he could be making instead of mistakes that would've been avoided had he been in normal position.

 

ok voice of reason time.  We replaced them with players that we HOPE are better.  With the exception of Zeitler and Tretter, all of the guys you mentioned are rookies, I am fairly certain that Peppers will be a fine player for a long long while.  The other 2 I am very hopeful for, but far from convinced.

[buno67]

4 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

We aren't losing because of coaching.

does ST coaching count? #fireTabor!

[Thomas5737]

4 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Name a coach who does win with this roster.

Perhaps it might take more than 18 games for a complete rebuild to bear fruit? Maybe?

I'm in no way saying he's been perfect, but to even entertain the idea of this team needing a new coach is full retard at this point IMO.

Too soon to take any action, not too soon to have a discussion. A coach can certainly be evaluated after 18 games with whatever roster, it won't be perfect but it can be entertained and discussed by me, you or Robert Downey Jr.

[Powertower]

I read the posts but I don't know if anyone mentioned it but we did go up against two tough defenses.  I'm not defending anyone cause we need to make the plays when they are available.  Crow needs to hit the ground running not running out of the shotgun but the staff needs to adjust too.  I think the next three games will dictate the rest of crows season. 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

8 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

Too soon to take any action, not too soon to have a discussion. A coach can certainly be evaluated after 18 games with whatever roster, it won't be perfect but it can be entertained and discussed by me, you or Robert Downey Jr.

You can evaluate him at any time, it doesn't mean it will be accurate or reasonable.

In the 18 games he's coached he's had 6 guys play qb due to injury. Those QB's were to lead an offense that, especially last year, was one of the least talented in the league.

If anyone doesn't feel Hue has met their expectations, I question their expectations.

As @mistakey pointed out already, Hue has shown multiple times the ability to develop a qb and run a quality offense. The shifts, motions, formations, etc., that seem to have everyone's panties in a wad here are the same things he was doing when he emerged as a top coaching candidate.

[bosko1616]

Maybe I'm one of the few but Dayes has impressed me on almost every one of his outings. I'd really like too see what he can do with the first team o. I've really soured on crow and would love to trade him for WR if at all possible. We have a stud OL and they've given him plenty of opportunities to break some long ones. He's just can't find the hole. There was four to five plays vs the Ravens where he ran directly into the guards back. Honestly I'd love to see what we can get for him and move on. 

[Thomas5737]

1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

You can evaluate him at any time, it doesn't mean it will be accurate or reasonable.

In the 18 games he's coached he's had 6 guys play qb due to injury. Those QB's were to lead an offense that, especially last year, was one of the least talented in the league.

If anyone doesn't feel Hue has met their expectations, I question their expectations.

As @mistakey pointed out already, Hue has shown multiple times the ability to develop a qb and run a quality offense. The shifts, motions, formations, etc., that seem to have everyone's panties in a wad here are the same things he was doing when he emerged as a top coaching candidate.

I'm completely neutral on Hue, I don't feel I blame him for anything that he isn't responsible for nor do I give excuses for him. I think he has screwed up, like in the 2nd Ravens game last year when he pulled Kessler in a one score game to go on to lose by 3 scores. A good excuse for that move was the offense needed a spark but if it backfires I don't think he that made the decision is without blame. I also didn't like that he criticized his QB at halftime with a lead. McCown's production dropped last year when he played, RGIII had his worst season (both in limited action) so while it's great that he has had success in the past with quarterbacks I need to see it here to give him credit for being a positive in that regard with the Browns. What he was able to get out of Kessler was impressive with Kessler's weak arm being that the team got competitive and took care of the football but he did pull him in favor of RGIII and he was inactive last week while our rookie from this year has already doubled Kessler's interception total in significantly fewer snaps. Not saying that I disagree with who he has starting but if Kizer doesn't improve he has to take the heat for that, I don't.

I think we win this week or win at least 2 of the next 4 and the negative talk (there isn't all that much) of the coaching staff goes away. We aren't filet mignon but neither is any of our next 4 opponents and we are favored this week on the road so at least a good effort to win the game should be there this week.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

23 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

I'm completely neutral on Hue, I don't feel I blame him for anything that he isn't responsible for nor do I give excuses for him. I think he has screwed up, like in the 2nd Ravens game last year when he pulled Kessler in a one score game to go on to lose by 3 scores. A good excuse for that move was the offense needed a spark but if it backfires I don't think he that made the decision is without blame. I also didn't like that he criticized his QB at halftime with a lead. McCown's production dropped last year when he played, RGIII had his worst season (both in limited action) so while it's great that he has had success in the past with quarterbacks I need to see it here to give him credit for being a positive in that regard with the Browns. What he was able to get out of Kessler was impressive with Kessler's weak arm being that the team got competitive and took care of the football but he did pull him in favor of RGIII and he was inactive last week while our rookie from this year has already doubled Kessler's interception total in significantly fewer snaps. Not saying that I disagree with who he has starting but if Kizer doesn't improve he has to take the heat for that, I don't.

I think we win this week or win at least 2 of the next 4 and the negative talk (there isn't all that much) of the coaching staff goes away. We aren't filet mignon but neither is any of our next 4 opponents and we are favored this week on the road so at least a good effort to win the game should be there this week.

I'm in no way saying he's been without errors, I disagreed with the Kessler benching last year too, but when a team hasn't managed to win a game I can see how a coach could look for ANYTHING to spark his team.

As far as Kizer improving, is that supposed to happen in a week? Month?  What's a reasonable time frame? I can all but guarantee that he's gonna have another game like Sunday this year, that just comes with being a 21 yo rookie. Is that Hue's fault? 

I just don't know what play or coaching technique covers up for subpar talent and inexperience? Things take time and Cleveland fans can be the most absurdly impatient group ever IMO.

As far as Kessler vs Kizer, that's a non issue to me.  Not one media member who watched most of the practices thought Kessler should be playing.  Neither do many fans. Neither does Hue.  The kid's a fine backup, but he isn't the answer IMO. Kizer MAY be.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

10 hours ago, Powertower said:

I read the posts but I don't know if anyone mentioned it but we did go up against two tough defenses.  I'm not defending anyone cause we need to make the plays when they are available.  Crow needs to hit the ground running not running out of the shotgun but the staff needs to adjust too.  I think the next three games will dictate the rest of crows season. 

I do think maybe Dayes and Duke get a few more touches and see what happens.

Can't be much worse than Crow right now.

[Reginaldm9]

To be fair, this is his livelihood. I would be upset too. He'll make some cash elsewhere to be a part of a committee. 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

5 minutes ago, Reginaldm9 said:

To be fair, this is his livelihood. I would be upset too. He'll make some cash elsewhere to be a part of a committee. 

Do you tell your boss you're thinking about your next annual review and the raise you should be getting all the time, even while working?

All he has to do is play well and he'll get paid. Until then hopefully he scrape together enough to get by on 2.5 million this year.