2018 College Prospect Thread

[jolly red giant]

4 hours ago, FireVanceJoseph said:

Elway and Kubiak still think Rosen is the best QB in the draft. They aren't looking to trade up for Baker so don't even start to get your hopes up. The QB of the Broncos next season will either be Cousins or Rosen.

We can only speculate - we have no idea what they are thinking. Hell - VJ's comments about adapting the offence to suit a college QBs skill-set could mean that they are high on Lamar Jackson.

[thebestever6]

3 hours ago, jolly red giant said:

Here is the situation - and Broncosfan has alluded to it -

We have two choices -

1. Sign Cousins and draft to fill the roster

2. Draft a rookie QB and use FA to fill the roster

My preference is option 1 - and I think that is Elway's preference as well.

Here is why - you know what you get with Cousins - you know he will improve this team. You don't know what you get with a rookie - there are issues with all of them and they are well documented. If you miss on the rookie then you set the franchise back significantly - and - you waste another year of the defence. Second problem - this years FA players are not that good. After Cousins there is a major drop off in talent at QB - and the same applies at every position - indeed some positions have very poor talent available. There are an awful lot of very mediocre (and even poor) players who are going to be paid a lot of money for the talent that have - case in point - Keenum is being figured at $16-$17million a year. I think it would be significantly better to pay Cousins $30million than pay Keenum half of that. The draft is deep where we have holes - specifically the OL and RB - sign Cousins, trade down and take talent that have a far higher prospect of success. Hell - Elway could even panic the Jets in swapping places, get one of their second rounders and draft someone like Nelson - or - (this would be the best scenario) swap with the Jets and then trade down again if there was still a QB available with someone like the Bills and end up with 1.20, 1.21, 2.40, 2.49, 3.71, 3.96 and 3.99 - imagine the potential improvement you could make to the roster with 7 picks in the top 100.

Now - all of this comes to nothing if Elway cannot get Cousins - then he has to draft a rookie at 1.5 - or even worse - he has to trade up to get his QB. I am a little bit more optimistic this year because if we are drafting a QB then before because I think Kubiak will have a major say in who it is. Now here is the problem (worst case scenario) - if Elway does trade up then we could end up by taking a QB and then not having another pick until the third round. Now you have to - go to plan B - you have to surround the rookie with the best talent you can get and you will need continuity. You probably resign CJ (although I would expect Elway to say you got paid $9million for the last two years because I tried to low-ball you - but here is $2million for next year) - you probably resign Talib to a reduced contract (maybe $6million) if you can get away with that. Then you have to go out into FA and find a veteran back-up QB and at the very least find an OT, an OG, another WR, maybe a TE, coupled with some help on defence. Can you list players in FA that they Broncos would have to sign and then the cost (and the cost would be big). If you could get Nate Soldier (as AAA mocked) that would cost you maybe $13-£15million, If we lose out on Soldier and don't overpay for Robinson or Ijalana (if they actually hit FA) then we could be looking at the likes of - wait for it - Chris Clark or Donald Stephenson.  Same with the OG - there are a lot of run-of-the-mill OGs who are going to get paid - and the Broncos will have to pay them because we may not be able to draft one. Same problem with WRs - most FA WRs are average at best and will get overpaid. Now Elway is noted for getting vaule in FA - but that is when he is not desperate to fill gaping holes.

Then you come to next season - have Cousins at QB - have major upgrades from the draft - and you have the Broncos competitive in a weak AFC. Have a rookie at QB (and most rookie QBs struggle even when they don't have question marks) assuming that the rookie doesn't bust which could happen - have overpaid mediocre players on the OL and at other positions - and we could be back at 1.5 again next season - have the defence going past its sell-by date - and be facing a major rebuild with a new coaching staff (that Elway could mess up again) and we would begin to look like the Browns of the last decade.

Do you see where I am going with this - and I don't think its far-fetched. Getting Cousins is not only the key - it really is the only option that gives the Broncos a realistic chance of being competitive for the next five years. It is possible a rookie QB could become a blue-chip player - it is possible that Elway can get the right pieces in FA and draft a couple of studs - it is possible the defence is kept playing at a high standard.

I like Plan A - I think Plan B contains far too many variables and is way too risky. We may have no choice - but I expect Elway to do what ever is humanly possible to implement Plan A. 

Mine is option 2. Listen as long as you protect the rookie qb and get a rb. He will be fine going  through growing pains.  Elway is still at his best bargain binning in free agency and late rounds  of the draft. Also if we wait this thing out we could be a preferred  destination for udfa. 

I think this thing,could possibly be fixed in a year most likely 2. But with Cousins I'm not sure we ever get there giving him who knows how much guaranteed money.

 

I like the eagles way of building a team get the trenches and qb righr. Than year two get great free agents to come once they see how awesome our rookie qb is. They got alshon for 13 mill a year not too shabby.

[Broncofan]

We won’t likely get a chance to draft either but DT Vita Vea and D’Ron Payne are absolute freaks.  

40 yard numbers are less important than the 10 yard split but both put up insane #’s for their size in the 40 / 10.  

Vea (347) - 5.11 / 1.77

Payne (315) - 4.91 / 1.67

The only 2 guys that can match Payne are 25 and 40 lbs. lighter.   Along with Payne and those 2 are 3 other guys at the 1.76 split that can beat Vea - and they are all 30+ lbs lighter than Vea (and at or lighter than Payne).   

They aren’t just workout warriors either their tape is elite.   

Why do I mention this?  Well because I see the Chargers D as near-elite.  A run stuffing DT who can push inside in pass downs is one of their few needs that’s hard to find.   I personally think the recent QB Rd1 talk is smokescreen to force teams to move up for the 4th/5th QB ahead of them - so they can get a Vea/Payne like talent.  Only my hunch but they are only 2-3 guys away from being complete (DT, better 4-3 OLB, T upgrade, Lamp will upgrade their 2nd G tremendously).   Just calling my hunch for the record.  

[jolly red giant]

48 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

I like the eagles way of building a team get the trenches and qb righr. Than year two get great free agents to come once they see how awesome our rookie qb is. They got alshon for 13 mill a year not too shabby.

What happens if your rookie QB turns out to be sh*te?

[Broncofan]

2 minutes ago, jolly red giant said:

What happens if your rookie QB turns out to be sh*te?

You mean what are the odds Elway picks the wrong guy?  Come on that’s crazy talk. It’s not like he’s unable to pick QB talent in the draft.

/end sarcasm mode

(On a serious note though we may never get a better shot to get a young elite ceiling QB than what’s happening now.  And I still think MIN gets Cousins.  It’s just that the rookie route still has plenty of risk - just in different ways)

[jolly red giant]

12 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

(On a serious note though we may never get a better shot to get a young elite ceiling QB than what’s happening now.  And I still think MIN gets Cousins.  It’s just that the rookie route still has plenty of risk - just in different ways)

Now that is true - there are 4 QBs that are potentially elite and we are unlikely to see that opportunity again (here's hoping)

However, it is also likely that at least one or two of them will turn out to be busts. 

But there is a bright side - apart from a small number of complete donkeys - QBs that go in the first couple of picks tend to become starters in the NFL.

(and my bit of sarcasm - hopefully it will be Kubiak instead of Elway making the decision).

[Broncofan]

Bradley Chubb just put up an insane 40/10 - 4.65 with a 1.63 split.  Von put up 4.53 - but 25 lbs heavier.   Chubb basically matched Khalil Mack but 18 lbs heavier at 269 lbs.  Basically Clowney/Garrett levels of athleticism hinted at. 

His tape didn’t show the same level of power or burst partly because he’s so smooth and glides.  But if Chubb shows that level of elite athleticism then it has a potential MASSIVE cascade effect - because that type of player is what IND is looking for but didn’t think was there.  If IND sees Chubb as v2 Clowney / Garrett then they are more likely to stay at 1.3 and not sell their pick to a team behind us - or if they move down won’t want to fall further than 1.5 to get Chubb.  

Cant wait to see the rest of Chubb’s drills. 

[PFM18]

23 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Bradley Chubb just put up an insane 40/10 - 4.65 with a 1.63 split.  Von put up 4.53 - but 25 lbs heavier.   Chubb basically matched Khalil Mack but 18 lbs heavier at 269 lbs.  Basically Clowney/Garrett levels of athleticism hinted at. 

His tape didn’t show the same level of power or burst partly because he’s so smooth and glides.  But if Chubb shows that level of elite athleticism then it has a potential MASSIVE cascade effect - because that type of player is what IND is looking for but didn’t think was there.  If IND sees Chubb as v2 Clowney / Garrett then they are more likely to stay at 1.3 and not sell their pick to a team behind us - or if they move down won’t want to fall further than 1.5 to get Chubb.  

Cant wait to see the rest of Chubb’s drills. 

Very interested in what Chubb can do from an Indy perspective. Most have us picking him at 3.

Personally I'd want Barkley at 3 but of course Cleveland and the G-Men can spoil that one. That being said if Chubb has an awesome combine and pro day I'll be happier if we do end up selecting him.

[germ-x]

22 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Bradley Chubb just put up an insane 40/10 - 4.65 with a 1.63 split.  Von put up 4.53 - but 25 lbs heavier.   Chubb basically matched Khalil Mack but 18 lbs heavier at 269 lbs.  Basically Clowney/Garrett levels of athleticism hinted at. 

His tape didn’t show the same level of power or burst partly because he’s so smooth and glides.  But if Chubb shows that level of elite athleticism then it has a potential MASSIVE cascade effect - because that type of player is what IND is looking for but didn’t think was there.  If IND sees Chubb as v2 Clowney / Garrett then they are more likely to stay at 1.3 and not sell their pick to a team behind us - or if they move down won’t want to fall further than 1.5 to get Chubb.  

Cant wait to see the rest of Chubb’s drills. 

Honestly, I haven’t bought into the Colts trading down at any point this offseason.  It’d be an incredibly stupid move to be honest.  Chubb is probably the 2nd best player in this draft.  One of the most complete DEs in years, which is Indy’s biggest need (aside from Luck being healthy) and the Colts are all but assured of getting him at #3.  Trading back and acquiring more picks always sounds great, but often times doesn’t always work out as planned.

The only way I could see any of the top 3 picks being moved is if the Browns decide to take Barkley 1.1.  I’m not sold on the Giants being in the market for a QB and with Barkley off the board I could see NYG trading back to 4, 5, 6.

If everything goes as expected, though, I think it’s Cleveland going QB at 1 (don’t know which one), the Giants going Barkley at 2, the Colts with Chubb at 3.  And then at 4 we could see some trade action.

[Broncofan]

1 minute ago, germ-x said:

Honestly, I haven’t bought into the Colts trading down at any point this offseason.  It’d be an incredibly stupid move to be honest.  Chubb is probably the 2nd best player in this draft.  One of the most complete DEs in years, which is Indy’s biggest need (aside from Luck being healthy) and the Colts are all but assured of getting him at #3.  Trading back and acquiring more picks always sounds great, but often times doesn’t always work out as planned.

The only way I could see any of the top 3 picks being moved is if the Browns decide to take Barkley 1.1.  I’m not sold on the Giants being in the market for a QB and with Barkley off the board I could see NYG trading back to 4, 5, 6.

If everything goes as expected, though, I think it’s Cleveland going QB at 1 (don’t know which one), the Giants going Barkley at 2, the Colts with Chubb at 3.  And then at 4 we could see some trade action.

The knock against Chubb was he wasn’t at Garrett/Clowney/Mack/Von levels of athleticism just the best of a weaker class.    The thought was IND could trade back to 5-6 and still get Chubb.  He’s dispelling that notion in a big way though.  

[PFM18]

7 minutes ago, germ-x said:

Honestly, I haven’t bought into the Colts trading down at any point this offseason.  It’d be an incredibly stupid move to be honest.  Chubb is probably the 2nd best player in this draft.  One of the most complete DEs in years, which is Indy’s biggest need (aside from Luck being healthy) and the Colts are all but assured of getting him at #3.  Trading back and acquiring more picks always sounds great, but often times doesn’t always work out as planned.

The only way I could see any of the top 3 picks being moved is if the Browns decide to take Barkley 1.1.  I’m not sold on the Giants being in the market for a QB and with Barkley off the board I could see NYG trading back to 4, 5, 6.

If everything goes as expected, though, I think it’s Cleveland going QB at 1 (don’t know which one), the Giants going Barkley at 2, the Colts with Chubb at 3.  And then at 4 we could see some trade action.

I dunno. How often are the Giants going to be in a position to draft their QB of the future? Don't think they'll be planning to be in this position again soon.

At some point you have to get Eli's successor. I don't see many better opportunities for them to do it. 

[germ-x]

12 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

The knock against Chubb was he wasn’t at Garrett/Clowney/Mack/Von levels of athleticism just the best of a weaker class.    The thought was IND could trade back to 5-6 and still get Chubb.  He’s dispelling that notion in a big way though.  

I always saw him as more Joey Bosa (Chubb’s a better run defender) than Garrett/Clowney/Mack/Miller.  Chubb and Bosa are more technical in their pass rushing than explosive/winning with athleticism.

 

[germ-x]

9 minutes ago, PFM18 said:

I dunno. How often are the Giants going to be in a position to draft their QB of the future? Don't think they'll be planning to be in this position again soon.

At some point you have to get Eli's successor. I don't see many better opportunities for them to do it. 

True.  But there’s been a heck of a lot coming out of New York that Eli is their guy and they feel he has at least 3 years left.  They also have a talented young QB on the roster behind him in Davis Webb.  

If it’s true that they think Eli has 3+ years I don’t see them going QB and instead I see them taking the best player in the draft, which is Barkley.

[Broncofan]

4 minutes ago, germ-x said:

True.  But there’s been a heck of a lot coming out of New York that Eli is their guy and they feel he has at least 3 years left.  They also have a talented young QB on the roster behind him in Davis Webb.  

If it’s true that they think Eli has 3+ years I don’t see them going QB and instead I see them taking the best player in the draft, which is Barkley.

I don’t know what tape the Gmen are watching but Eli looks like 1 more year would be a stretch.   When he sees pressure he bails so quickly now it’s painful.  Years of meh OL plat have caught up IMO.   He could play another 3 years but playing well?   I don’t see it his decline phase is well underway IMO.  

[PFM18]

3 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

I don’t know what tape the Gmen are watching but Eli looks like 1 more year would be a stretch.   When he sees pressure he bails so quickly now it’s painful.  Years of meh OL plat have caught up IMO.   He could play another 3 years but playing well?   I don’t see it his decline phase is well underway IMO.  

It could be out of their hands anyway. I can see Cleveland taking Barkley at 1. 

Cleveland also has the 4th pick anyway, and if they feel their QB will still be there at 4 then they could certainly pick Barkley and wait until 4 to get their QB.

One thing's for sure. This draft ain't easily predictable.