The QB Thread: Everything Carr, Stidham and beyond...

[NCOUGHMAN]

People were very quiet about carr vs the bengals imo a very winnable game while I see the chargers handle business so far.
 

That’s my thing about carr I don’t think it matters where he plays until he can prove he can get it done in nov and dec. of course it’s not all on carr but he needs to perform. Averaging 1 td a game isn’t performing and is a carr thing not a team thing imo. Mm came off the bench and got a rz td with ease. Getting a million passing yards is cool but having your kicker out score your qb isn’t gonna equal wins on a consistent basis. 

[ronjon1990]

10 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

People were very quiet about carr vs the bengals imo a very winnable game while I see the chargers handle business so far.
 

That’s my thing about carr I don’t think it matters where he plays until he can prove he can get it done in nov and dec. of course it’s not all on carr but he needs to perform. Averaging 1 td a game isn’t performing and is a carr thing not a team thing imo. Mm came off the bench and got a rz td with ease. Getting a million passing yards is cool but having your kicker out score your qb isn’t gonna equal wins on a consistent basis. 

It absolutely matters where he plays though. We have not once fielded a good team in terms of offense, defense, and coaching. 

Show me a QB who overcomes bad blocking, bad weapons, bad defense, and bad coaching. Any 1 QB will do. Just 1. That has been highly successful, at any point, much less late in the year, with those issues year in, year out. 

 

Now, the RZ, that's an issue, but also goes well beyond Carr. We have no run game and our pass catchers are mostly underwhelming. That doesn't help any QB. It's absolutely a team thing. Our offense literally cannot operate without a deep threat, which, guess what, you don't have in the RZ unless you take back to back 15 yard sacks or Alex Pleatherwhiff has his way.

Edited December 5, 2021 by ronjon1990
Also...are you watching the Bengals game? Yeah, Chargers taking care of business alright lol

[Darbsk]

Is there any other team so reliant on their QB? If Carr plays well, we have a great chance to win but if he's average or poor then we basically have no chance to win. That's an awful lot of pressure and focus.

[drfrey13]

2 hours ago, Darbsk said:

I do agree to some degree but it is also clear that Carr has definitely been handicapped by this franchise. With regards the very best players only Russell Wilson I think has really excelled in very difficult circumstances. He's had a very poor OL, Carson is a very good RB though he's now out and he's had pretty good receivers but I think he's made more with less than the other top guys which is why I think he's clearly better than the likes of Mahomes. Still it's clear this year with no running game and poor line play he's struggling. I think Carr isn't the great entertainer type QB that plays off the cuff but in the right system, with good weapons he could be really, really good. The guys who can really excel with poor casts I think are only a handful, Rodgers, Brady, Wilson, Watson (though I hope he never plays again), then Allen and Ryan maybe and we're yet to see how Kermit and Murray do without an all star cast. 

I am not saying he should or that he sucks.  I am just stating that he has some missing pieces and as long as those are not changed we will struggle or we need everything to go right for him to succeed but in the NFL stuff breakdown over the course of a season.  I am not saying what direction we should go in but rather clarifying what I believe our expectations should be if we keep Carr.

[drfrey13]

1 hour ago, ronjon1990 said:

I've also watched Russell Wilson's hero ball fail spectacularly in terms of unnecessary sacks and lost yardage, so it's not as if all he does is touched with gold. Dude had one of the best defenses in the league for much of his career and could afford to play his style of hero ball. 

Carr has had one of the worst defenses in the history of the NFL at times and has had to be sure to take care of the ball lest a 7 deficit becomes a 14 point one in a flash. 

Why is it so difficult to realize that good teams allow players to look good and play hero ball and get the ESPN highlights and bad teams do not afford that chance? Russ throws a pick for 90% of his career, Seattle either stops the opponent or already had a lead and it just goes down as a "wishes he could have that one back for the stat book" things. Carr throws a pick, it's almost assuredly leading us into a deeper hole and is listed as why we lost. It's really not rocket science.

Nobody said Russell was perfect or that Carr should have the same style.  What I am saying is that Russell has elevated the players around him and I would say Carr has had better weapons around him on offense.  

[ronjon1990]

4 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

Nobody said Russell was perfect or that Carr should have the same style.  What I am saying is that Russell has elevated the players around him and I would say Carr has had better weapons around him on offense.  

You can't be serious? 

Golden Tate, Doug Baldwin, DK Metcalf, prime time Marshawn Lynch, healthy Chris Carson, healthy Thomas Rawls, Tyler Lockett, Will Dissly, Jimmy Graham...

Yeah, Carr has definitely had better weapons with our practice squad roster and busts...

[NCOUGHMAN]

5 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

It absolutely matters where he plays though. We have not once fielded a good team in terms of offense, defense, and coaching. 

Show me a QB who overcomes bad blocking, bad weapons, bad defense, and bad coaching. Any 1 QB will do. Just 1. That has been highly successful, at any point, much less late in the year, with those issues year in, year out. 

 

Now, the RZ, that's an issue, but also goes well beyond Carr. We have no run game and our pass catchers are mostly underwhelming. That doesn't help any QB. It's absolutely a team thing. Our offense literally cannot operate without a deep threat, which, guess what, you don't have in the RZ unless you take back to back 15 yard sacks or Alex Pleatherwhiff has his way.

Del rio owned carr

djax and zay was open first 3 qtrs carr is just in love with rbs 

[dante9876]

No more excuses. Time to move on. 

[Frankie2Gunz]

4 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

You can't be serious? 

Golden Tate, Doug Baldwin, DK Metcalf, prime time Marshawn Lynch, healthy Chris Carson, healthy Thomas Rawls, Tyler Lockett, Will Dissly, Jimmy Graham...

Yeah, Carr has definitely had better weapons with our practice squad roster and busts...

Hahaha some people are so clueless.  He must mean better weapons like AARP member Jordy Nelson, Marcel Ateman, JJ Nelson, Dwane Harris, Seth Roberts, Keelan Doss.  I love how fools on here were calling for Carr's head because he wasn't "going deep" enough to that cast of absolute trash.  I remember many posts debating how it's not possible to "go deep" with WR's like those bums but average fans could not grasp that concept.

Now let's look at our fantastic crew of RB's.  A fat, old and washed up Lynch, a fat and old washed up worthless Doug Martin.  Jacobs is uninspiring, lacks explosiveness and is a 1st round bust of a RB.  

I can't believe some people on here can think those cast of bums are in the same universe as the weapons that Russ has had but nothing ever surprises me with some of the nonsense I see on here.  

No run game, absolute garbage at WR and a historically bad D YOY and it's Carr's fault LOL Our front office should be ashamed of themselves and every one of those clowns should be fired after this year.  

Edited December 6, 2021 by Frankie2Gunz

[drfrey13]

7 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

You can't be serious? 

Golden Tate, Doug Baldwin, DK Metcalf, prime time Marshawn Lynch, healthy Chris Carson, healthy Thomas Rawls, Tyler Lockett, Will Dissly, Jimmy Graham...

Yeah, Carr has definitely had better weapons with our practice squad roster and busts...

RBs Seattle Lynch is better than everyone else and I would give the edge to Seattle but not by much.  Oakland Lynch was better than Rawls and Jacobs and Murray are right there with Carson.  Also Wilson only had 5 of 10 years with years with 1,000 RB play and Carr has had 3 of 7 (Carr might get 4 of 8 if Jacobs can stay healthy and get a couple big games).  Wilson was also his teams leading rusher one year.  Just like Lamar Jackson Russel's running helps the Seattle RBs and Russell has averaged over 30 yards a game.  Carr has averaged 5.9 a game.  So Wilson has helped improve the RB play in Seattle.

TEs is easily the Raiders.  I will take Waller, Cook, and Moreau any day.  Cook and Moreau are capatable to Graham and Dissly. So I will leave Waller to the WRs and call the TEs a push.

WRs  Waller and Metcalf you can call a push.  Tate, Baldwin, and Lockett vs Renfrow, Cooper, and Crabtree.  Renfrow's prodution is better than Tate's when he was in Seattle.  Baldwin, Lockett, Crabtree, and Cooper all had two good years with Wilson and Carr but Wilson had Lockett and Baldwin much longer so I will give that to Seattle.  It is not that big of a win because none of the four where ever dominant #1 WRs.  All four played like #2s.

Oline You would have to laugh at this comparison so I do not think I need to go to in depth with it.  Raiders lately have been trying to make this a closer race however.

I am not going to count team success because Wilson easily has had the better defense but I do not subscribe to the better defense allows you to take more chances.  In fact I think if your offence is suppose to be that much better than your defense then your defense needs to take more chances.  Otherwise it is death by a 1,000 cuts.

Looking at just the offense the production in Seattle blows us away and if you remove the QBs we have had more talent in my opinion.

[ronjon1990]

4 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

RBs Seattle Lynch is better than everyone else and I would give the edge to Seattle but not by much.  Oakland Lynch was better than Rawls and Jacobs and Murray are right there with Carson.  Also Wilson only had 5 of 10 years with years with 1,000 RB play and Carr has had 3 of 7 (Carr might get 4 of 8 if Jacobs can stay healthy and get a couple big games).  Wilson was also his teams leading rusher one year.  Just like Lamar Jackson Russel's running helps the Seattle RBs and Russell has averaged over 30 yards a game.  Carr has averaged 5.9 a game.  So Wilson has helped improve the RB play in Seattle.

TEs is easily the Raiders.  I will take Waller, Cook, and Moreau any day.  Cook and Moreau are capatable to Graham and Dissly. So I will leave Waller to the WRs and call the TEs a push.

WRs  Waller and Metcalf you can call a push.  Tate, Baldwin, and Lockett vs Renfrow, Cooper, and Crabtree.  Renfrow's prodution is better than Tate's when he was in Seattle.  Baldwin, Lockett, Crabtree, and Cooper all had two good years with Wilson and Carr but Wilson had Lockett and Baldwin much longer so I will give that to Seattle.  It is not that big of a win because none of the four where ever dominant #1 WRs.  All four played like #2s.

Oline You would have to laugh at this comparison so I do not think I need to go to in depth with it.  Raiders lately have been trying to make this a closer race however.

I am not going to count team success because Wilson easily has had the better defense but I do not subscribe to the better defense allows you to take more chances.  In fact I think if your offence is suppose to be that much better than your defense then your defense needs to take more chances.  Otherwise it is death by a 1,000 cuts.

Looking at just the offense the production in Seattle blows us away and if you remove the QBs we have had more talent in my opinion.

1. LOL. No. Not even close. Lynch came out of retirement woefully unprepared to carry a load and Rawls, pre injury, was one of the best young backs in the league. 

2. LOL. No. Not even close. Murray was always a backup thrust into a starting role. Jacobs is a backup masquerading as a starter. Chris Carson, pre injury, was one of the brightest young backs in the league. 

3. The Raiders have had better RBs if we project higher than proven output from Jacobs between now and the end of the year and keep pretending he's a feature back on most other teams in the league? Got it. 

4. We had Cook for a cup of coffee. 

5. Wilson had Baldwin for 7 seasons, has had Lockett for 7 seasons, Jermaine Kearse for 4. Several of those years overlapped (3). And then Metcalf came along to team up with Lockett in 2019, so the last 3 seasons. 

Carr only had Crabtree and Cooper together for 3 total seasons and both were gone before Renfrow's rookie campaign ended. 

Wilson had better or equal WRs, had them for longer, and in some cases all at once. Carr has 3 total years of the same WR1/WR2 in his entire career. It's a huge tip in Seattle's favor in terms of production and consistency. 

6. O-lines....yeah. Lol.

7. But we haven't. Our RBs have never been markedly better. We never have the same WRs. The only edge we have is Waller in the TE grouping. That's it. We might have had a superior player here or there, but unlike Seattle, we have no timeframe where our list of "better" players were even on the roster at the same time. We've been a revolving door that has never actually fielded anything close to the same offense one year from the next. Any team can bring in mercenaries that are individually good or even great. That rarely, if ever, works out. Ask Cleveland. 

[NYRaider]

12 hours ago, Darbsk said:

Is there any other team so reliant on their QB? If Carr plays well, we have a great chance to win but if he's average or poor then we basically have no chance to win. That's an awful lot of pressure and focus.

The defense balled out against the Bears, Giants, and today. The offense was stagnant again and we lost. 

[NYRaider]

11 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

You can't be serious? 

Golden Tate, Doug Baldwin, DK Metcalf, prime time Marshawn Lynch, healthy Chris Carson, healthy Thomas Rawls, Tyler Lockett, Will Dissly, Jimmy Graham...

Yeah, Carr has definitely had better weapons with our practice squad roster and busts...

Amari Cooper,  Michael Crabtree...

[Jerry]

2 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

1. LOL. No. Not even close. Lynch came out of retirement woefully unprepared to carry a load and Rawls, pre injury, was one of the best young backs in the league. 

2. LOL. No. Not even close. Murray was always a backup thrust into a starting role. Jacobs is a backup masquerading as a starter. Chris Carson, pre injury, was one of the brightest young backs in the league. 

3. The Raiders have had better RBs if we project higher than proven output from Jacobs between now and the end of the year and keep pretending he's a feature back on most other teams in the league? Got it. 

4. We had Cook for a cup of coffee. 

5. Wilson had Baldwin for 7 seasons, has had Lockett for 7 seasons, Jermaine Kearse for 4. Several of those years overlapped (3). And then Metcalf came along to team up with Lockett in 2019, so the last 3 seasons. 

Carr only had Crabtree and Cooper together for 3 total seasons and both were gone before Renfrow's rookie campaign ended. 

Wilson had better or equal WRs, had them for longer, and in some cases all at once. Carr has 3 total years of the same WR1/WR2 in his entire career. It's a huge tip in Seattle's favor in terms of production and consistency. 

6. O-lines....yeah. Lol.

7. But we haven't. Our RBs have never been markedly better. We never have the same WRs. The only edge we have is Waller in the TE grouping. That's it. We might have had a superior player here or there, but unlike Seattle, we have no timeframe where our list of "better" players were even on the roster at the same time. We've been a revolving door that has never actually fielded anything close to the same offense one year from the next. Any team can bring in mercenaries that are individually good or even great. That rarely, if ever, works out. Ask Cleveland. 

Crazy thing is Seattle was winning games and going to the playoffs every year back when they had the Legion of Boom.  Never had anything close to a defense like that with DC under center.

[NYRaider]

Just now, Jerry said:

Crazy thing is Seattle was winning games and going to the playoffs every year back when they had the Legion of Boom.  Never had anything close to a defense like that with DC under center.

I'd say most average to above average QB's would be successful with an elite defense and good weapons.