Bitty 2.0 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 20 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said: Meh we lost a lot of close games especially down the stretch. We were literally a couple more first downs away from wins in some games. But he also could have thrown picks that would’ve given the game away so I guess there’s that. Still lost tho. I’d rather go down swinging then just trying to dodge punches until the bell rings What I saw was WRs who We're running routes too shallow and couldn't get separation. Good percentage of 3rd down passes were a contested catch and short. I know Carr could of did something different but that's not the system. This system depends precision and run after the catch. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 14 hours ago, drfrey13 said: My issue has nothing to do with being conservative because that implies you have different paths to still accomplish your objective. My problem was when the only option to give you a chance was not taken in favor of something that had no chance. When it is do or die time you take the hit and give your guys a chance. In those situations you do not look at your teammates and decide they are not good enough. You give them the chance to prove themselves. How can you call a player a scrub when there is no opportunity because your QB would rather make a completion on 4th down that has no chance at a first over throwing a 50 yard int that at least changes field position. Put the ball were only your guy has a shot or he has an advantage. Carr cares to much about his stats. I would say he believes that reducing turnovers wins games but he refuses to take chances when it is needed to win games. That shows me it is about the stats. He took shots in 2016 but not anymore. I hope he changes but the past 3 years leads me to think otherwise. Agree. We’ve had numerous post games posts showing guys that were open but got ignored cause carr got scared and checked down or threw it in the dirt. You can’t really be successful if you don’t take chances. When you don’t take chances it’s like you’re settling for mediocrity. Carr is not that established imo that he can say “I don’t trust this wr enough to give him a chance so to be safe I’ll throw it away”. Someone said with our wrs carr throwing it deep would be career suicide. I think it has potential to be a great learning opportunity And chance for carr (semi headcase) and wr to develop confidence in each other. It’s hard to play on a team with a guy who doesn’t have confidence in you. Hard to respect a teammate who doesn’t have confidence in you. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 6 hours ago, Darbsk said: I dont think many here would argue that on occasion Carr definitely should at least give his receivers a chance. Take the 4th down throw, he did well to extend the play and keep the play alive but should IMO at the end have thrown it at the TE in the right hand side of the end zone, even if it was at knee height or something to prevent the DB from making a play on it. He should have given his guy a chance, and you're right he should give his guys a chance on occasion especially in single coverage but its not quite so black and white all the time. Sometimes just throwing it up into double coverage isn't the same as punting 50 yards, sometimes its a pick 6. There is definitely a time and place to be more aggressive and give guys a chance though no argument there. Ultimately though, Carr gives us the best chance of winning at this moment in time. Mariota is not a better QB but hopefully he can put a little pressure on Carr and get the best out of both of them by elevating their games. I would like to see Carr being more proactive on 3rd down in trying to throw at the sticks or past them. I'd like to see him use his great arm a little more too. That is a weapon opposing DCs should fear but they don't. I agree with what your saying and I said before the season ended we will/should finally spend on a backup QB to push Carr. I was not happy it was Mariota but Gruden thinks he can do something with him so hopefully he can if needed. My point about Carr was also when there is 6 minutes left and we are down a couple scores or when the game is starting to get away from us. His situational awareness is crap but in 2016 it was great. Seems like he has become to risk adverse to the point it hurts the team. Physically I have always said Carr is an amazing QB but between the ears he does not have it. He will always look great at the park during passing drills just like his brother looks better than Dak throwing at targets. When the pressure and threat of physical injury increases he shrinks. He is the Reggie McKenzie of QBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 7 hours ago, Bitty 2.0 said: What I saw was WRs who We're running routes too shallow and couldn't get separation. Good percentage of 3rd down passes were a contested catch and short. I know Carr could of did something different but that's not the system. This system depends precision and run after the catch. After the games we saw dissected clips after clips showing carr ignoring anything 5yard Or deeper with wrs open pass 10 yards 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raidr4life Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 2 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said: After the games we saw dissected clips after clips showing carr ignoring anything 5yard Or deeper with wrs open pass 10 yards People always forget. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 8 minutes ago, raidr4life said: People always forget. And it has been happening for 3 years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raidr4life Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 28 minutes ago, drfrey13 said: And it has been happening for 3 years. All they have to do is go to any game day thread and read how down they were on Carr for 3 qtrs then he completes one good pass and all is forgiven. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 1 hour ago, raidr4life said: All they have to do is go to any game day thread and read how down they were on Carr for 3 qtrs then he completes one good pass and all is forgiven. I still remember when he hit that rico wr dude with a bomb I think vs tenn and the whole thread acted like they didn’t believe their eyes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 I don't really understand the point here. We were running a dink dunk offense based on our lack of personnel. We got the most of our tight end group, but fielded a generously ranked bottom 5 WR group (especially based on who we put on the field and taking injuries into account). It's not like we were running tons of vertical pass plays from shotgun and Carr was just checking down to the back. We actually ran more of a vertical offense vs Detroit and it worked marvelously. No idea why we didn't do it more, though the Lions defense was also pretty suspect ngl. Some of ya'll are acting like we had Kenny Golladay or something running open on deep posts/ins all day and Carr was just choosing to ignore them. In reality, in rewatching a lot of all 22, there were tons of route combinations that were shallow and other teams were sitting on them. It's why the coaching staff felt so compelled to draft Ruggs over Jeudy or Lamb. He gives us a vertical/horizontal threat that the other guys can't provide. We already have a good possession guy in Tyrell Williams (when healthy) and an excellent slot in Renfrow, if he can keep up his 2nd half form. Honestly, even Waller, Williams and Renfrow all healthy would have been good. But Renfrow only really came on in the 2nd half of the season and by that point, Williams foot was shot, meaning Waller got bracketed often. I'm just keeping it real. We didn't score 20 points in the 3rd quarter by accident. I'm sure I'll get the excuses moniker. But we drafted 3 "WR" and signed Agholor. If that isn't an indictment on skill position players, I don't know what is. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaidersAreOne Posted June 11, 2020 Author Share Posted June 11, 2020 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said: I don't really understand the point here. We were running a dink dunk offense based on our lack of personnel. We got the most of our tight end group, but fielded a generously ranked bottom 5 WR group (especially based on who we put on the field and taking injuries into account). It's not like we were running tons of vertical pass plays from shotgun and Carr was just checking down to the back. We actually ran more of a vertical offense vs Detroit and it worked marvelously. No idea why we didn't do it more, though the Lions defense was also pretty suspect ngl. Some of ya'll are acting like we had Kenny Golladay or something running open on deep posts/ins all day and Carr was just choosing to ignore them. In reality, in rewatching a lot of all 22, there were tons of route combinations that were shallow and other teams were sitting on them. It's why the coaching staff felt so compelled to draft Ruggs over Jeudy or Lamb. He gives us a vertical/horizontal threat that the other guys can't provide. We already have a good possession guy in Tyrell Williams (when healthy) and an excellent slot in Renfrow, if he can keep up his 2nd half form. Honestly, even Waller, Williams and Renfrow all healthy would have been good. But Renfrow only really came on in the 2nd half of the season and by that point, Williams foot was shot, meaning Waller got bracketed often. I'm just keeping it real. We didn't score 20 points in the 3rd quarter by accident. I'm sure I'll get the excuses moniker. But we drafted 3 "WR" and signed Agholor. If that isn't an indictment on skill position players, I don't know what is. I get what you are saying and I have also said that knowledge of Xs and Os is limited so I did not know if the issue was Carr or play calling but there have been plenty of times were anything underneath or throwing it away was giving up. I think those are some of the times that Gruden would get angry with Carr. When you need something down the field or time is running out he would still choose the underneath stuff. Maybe you throw a pick but punting would allow the other team to get the ball back needed a 1st down or 2 then run out the clock. Those are the situations I am talking about. He reminds me of Maverick after Goose dies and Amari Cooper is Sundown. Edited June 11, 2020 by drfrey13 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 I get what you're saying. But I think the aggression will come with having more options deep and Gruden "opening up" the playbook. Plus being able to take big shots off of play action, which we weren't able to do very much last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 2 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said: I get what you're saying. But I think the aggression will come with having more options deep and Gruden "opening up" the playbook. Plus being able to take big shots off of play action, which we weren't able to do very much last year. I hope so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitty 2.0 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 (edited) 16 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said: After the games we saw dissected clips after clips showing carr ignoring anything 5yard Or deeper with wrs open pass 10 yards The numbers don't match with what you're saying. 127 Rating https://www.footballdb.com/players/derek-carr-carrde03/situational-stats or https://www.silverandblackpride.com/2019/12/27/21039751/oakland-raiders-derek-carr-excelling-on-third-down-in-2019-why-does-he-seem-to-play-so-much-better Edited June 11, 2020 by Bitty 2.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbsk Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 17 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said: After the games we saw dissected clips after clips showing carr ignoring anything 5yard Or deeper with wrs open pass 10 yards I dont doubt that Carr missed several open targets every game,..........the thing is all QBs do. I think (just my opinion) that because he's seen as a conservative QB by a very animated fan base and has taken a lot of flack it gets highlighted a lot more than other QBs. I watched games this year where Russell Wilson missed throws that I honestly could have made (and i think Wilson is the current best QB in the league), also watched Mahones throw short of the sticks to Hill for small gains whilst Kelce was wide open deep. Now these guys do get benefit of the doubt as they do pull out exceptional plays but the facts remain that every QB misses throws and receivers in every game. There is not a QB you can't rewatch a game of and pick holes if you're so inclined. Carr misses throws true, he checks down a little too often true and at times he seems to ignore WRs deep in favour of shorter routes true. I am inclined to give him a little benefit of the doubt as when surrounded by decent weapons he's played well IMHO. This season will be really interesting to watch if there is a slight change in nature. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts