The QB Thread: Everything Carr, Stidham and beyond...

[Bitty 2.0]

According to NFL.com, Carr was the third best quarterback under pressure in 2019. Not too bad. The two quarterbacks who were better were Ryan Tannehill and Drew Brees. Carr’s 103.7 passer rating under pressure sits one spot ahead of MVP Lamar Jackson, who had a 93.1

https://www.silverandblackpride.com/2020/6/8/21283543/las-vegas-raider-derek-carr-nfl-news-rumors

[true2form]

https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/marcus-mariota-derek-carr-las-vegas-raiders-starting-qb

Good read, breaks it down very realistically without a bias.

[Darbsk]

1 hour ago, true2form said:

https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/marcus-mariota-derek-carr-las-vegas-raiders-starting-qb

Good read, breaks it down very realistically without a bias.

I quite like Solak, he's pretty fair but the thing that sticks with me is that he's kind of using the stats in isolation, without putting them in context. Carr does check down and throw short, quick throws a lot no doubt at all but any decent or good QB for us would have done the same last year. The deep threats simply weren't there.....a hobbled Williams, Ateman, Gaffird and Doss? Throwing deep repeatedly to that would have been career suicide. 

[NCOUGHMAN]

3 hours ago, Darbsk said:

I quite like Solak, he's pretty fair but the thing that sticks with me is that he's kind of using the stats in isolation, without putting them in context. Carr does check down and throw short, quick throws a lot no doubt at all but any decent or good QB for us would have done the same last year. The deep threats simply weren't there.....a hobbled Williams, Ateman, Gaffird and Doss? Throwing deep repeatedly to that would have been career suicide. 

Meh you never know until you try. whose to say one of those guys don’t emerge into a solid player given opportunity...

[raidr4life]

12 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Meh you never know until you try. whose to say one of those guys don’t emerge into a solid player given opportunity...

Yup totally bogus to say deep shot weren't there. There is plenty of film showing guys open on deeper routes, and Gruden was caught on camera at least twice ripping Carr for missing the deep route. You just have to attempt it sometimes.

[Darbsk]

9 hours ago, raidr4life said:

Yup totally bogus to say deep shot weren't there. There is plenty of film showing guys open on deeper routes, and Gruden was caught on camera at least twice ripping Carr for missing the deep route. You just have to attempt it sometimes.

Oh, I dont disagree that you have to take shots on occasion. But they should be calculated and given our weapons the sensible thing to do was work the seams to the TEs and short routes to the backs and Renfrow which is what the percentages show. Absolutely you have to give guys the chance on occasion but a couple deep shots to Jones, Ateman and Doss aren't really going to move the needle much and make us an offense DCs fear so if you want to increase the proportion of deeper routes and effective throws downfield significantly you would need to be adding better deep threat players IMO. Hopefully we've done just that with Edwards, a healthy Williams and Ruggs (though I do think most of his work will be short slants, crosses and screens to start).

[NCOUGHMAN]

6 hours ago, Darbsk said:

Oh, I dont disagree that you have to take shots on occasion. But they should be calculated and given our weapons the sensible thing to do was work the seams to the TEs and short routes to the backs and Renfrow which is what the percentages show. Absolutely you have to give guys the chance on occasion but a couple deep shots to Jones, Ateman and Doss aren't really going to move the needle much and make us an offense DCs fear so if you want to increase the proportion of deeper routes and effective throws downfield significantly you would need to be adding better deep threat players IMO. Hopefully we've done just that with Edwards, a healthy Williams and Ruggs (though I do think most of his work will be short slants, crosses and screens to start).

Meh we lost a lot of close games especially down the stretch. We were literally a couple more first downs away from wins in some games. But he also could have thrown picks that would’ve given the game away so I guess there’s that. Still lost tho. I’d rather go down swinging then just trying to dodge punches until the bell rings

[Darbsk]

18 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Meh we lost a lot of close games especially down the stretch. We were literally a couple more first downs away from wins in some games. But he also could have thrown picks that would’ve given the game away so I guess there’s that. Still lost tho. I’d rather go down swinging then just trying to dodge punches until the bell rings

I can understand that sentiment for sure but usually when you have a lack of talent taking more risks leads to many more turnovers. We may have changed the course in one or two games and sneaked one or two but we also could have lost a couple that we won by turning the ball over which is more likely IMO. Trying to be objective, I just dont see us adding more wins by being more aggressive given the roster we had and the injuries last season.

Now, this year I definitely feel we should use the threat of the deep ball to spread the defence and I'll be calling for changes if we aren't more aggressive. I fully expect us to be more aggressive and I expect Carr to take more chances though he is ultimately a conservative QB. Balance I feel is what we need and he seemed to get that right in '15 and '16 with the help of Musgrave of course.

[NCOUGHMAN]

1 hour ago, Darbsk said:

I can understand that sentiment for sure but usually when you have a lack of talent taking more risks leads to many more turnovers. We may have changed the course in one or two games and sneaked one or two but we also could have lost a couple that we won by turning the ball over which is more likely IMO. Trying to be objective, I just dont see us adding more wins by being more aggressive given the roster we had and the injuries last season.

Now, this year I definitely feel we should use the threat of the deep ball to spread the defence and I'll be calling for changes if we aren't more aggressive. I fully expect us to be more aggressive and I expect Carr to take more chances though he is ultimately a conservative QB. Balance I feel is what we need and he seemed to get that right in '15 and '16 with the help of Musgrave of course.

I hear you always 2 sides to a coin. This year will speak volumes esp a legit 4.3 wr 

[Geezy]

4 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

I hear you always 2 sides to a coin. This year will speak volumes esp a legit 4.3 wr 

No excuses for DC to not take shots this year

[MrOaktown_56]

Taking a few more shots wouldn’t have really moved the needle. The team was very flawed last year in all aspects except RB, TE, and OL.

Depth was terrible across the roster and we definitely faltered at times. Those 3rd quarters were unacceptable.

This year the team is much improved at WR and on defense and I think everyone will play better as a result. 

I think, as others do that Carr will have a career year this year. If he doesn’t, we have mariota and can always draft someone.

[drfrey13]

My issue has nothing to do with being conservative because that implies you have different paths to still accomplish your objective.  My problem was when the only option to give you a chance was not taken in favor of something that had no chance.  When it is do or die time you take the hit and give your guys a chance.  In those situations you do not look at your teammates and decide they are not good enough.  You give them the chance to prove themselves.  How can you call a player a scrub when there is no opportunity because your QB would rather make a completion on 4th down that has no chance at a first over throwing a 50 yard int that at least changes field position.  Put the ball were only your guy has a shot or he has an advantage.  Carr cares to much about his stats.  I would say he believes that reducing turnovers wins games but he refuses to take chances when it is needed to win games.  That shows me it is about the stats.  He took shots in 2016 but not anymore.  I hope he changes but the past 3 years leads me to think otherwise.

[agarcia34]

 

[drfrey13]

His brother is pretty good too when there is no d-line.

 

37 minutes ago, agarcia34 said:

 

 

Edited June 10, 2020 by drfrey13

[Darbsk]

8 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

My issue has nothing to do with being conservative because that implies you have different paths to still accomplish your objective.  My problem was when the only option to give you a chance was not taken in favor of something that had no chance.  When it is do or die time you take the hit and give your guys a chance.  In those situations you do not look at your teammates and decide they are not good enough.  You give them the chance to prove themselves.  How can you call a player a scrub when there is no opportunity because your QB would rather make a completion on 4th down that has no chance at a first over throwing a 50 yard int that at least changes field position.  Put the ball were only your guy has a shot or he has an advantage.  Carr cares to much about his stats.  I would say he believes that reducing turnovers wins games but he refuses to take chances when it is needed to win games.  That shows me it is about the stats.  He took shots in 2016 but not anymore.  I hope he changes but the past 3 years leads me to think otherwise.

I dont think many here would argue that on occasion Carr definitely should at least give his receivers a chance. Take the 4th down throw, he did well to extend the play and keep the play alive but should IMO at the end have thrown it at the TE in the right hand side of the end zone, even if it was at knee height or something to prevent the DB from making a play on it. He should have given his guy a chance, and you're right he should give his guys a chance on occasion especially in single coverage but its not quite so black and white all the time. Sometimes just throwing it up into double coverage isn't the same as punting 50 yards, sometimes its a pick 6. There is definitely a time and place to be more aggressive and give guys a chance though no argument there.

Ultimately though, Carr gives us the best chance of winning at this moment in time. Mariota is not a better QB but hopefully he can put a little pressure on Carr and get the best out of both of them by elevating their games. I would like to see Carr being more proactive on 3rd down in trying to throw at the sticks or past them. I'd like to see him use his great arm a little more too. That is a weapon opposing DCs should fear but they don't.

Edited June 10, 2020 by Darbsk