NYRaider Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 5 hours ago, true2form said: I think we can still see a better version of Carr inside of Gruden's offense. Better talent around him should obviously help. If you're hoping for a gunslinger return, I just don't see that happening in this offense. I was looking at Gruden's record today and honestly outside of his first stint here none of his teams have been that good offensively, lol. Especially for being touted as a QB guru. Tampa Bay 2002: 24th in yards (15th passing offense), 18th in scoring 2003: 10th in yards (6th passing offense), 18th in scoring 2004: 22nd in yards (14th passing offense), 23rd in scoring 2005: 23rd in yards (25th passing offense), 20th in scoring 2006: 29th in yards (26th passing offense), 31st in scoring 2007: 18th in yards (16th passing offense), 18th in scoring 2008: 14th in yards (11th passing offense), 19th in scoring 2018: 23rd in yards (18th passing offense), 28th in scoring 2019: 11th in yards (9th passing offense), 24th in scoring After his first stint in Oakland none of his teams have even ranked in the top half of scoring offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raidr4life Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 6 minutes ago, NYRaider said: I was looking at Gruden's record today and honestly outside of his first stint here none of his teams have been that good offensively, lol. Especially for being touted as a QB guru. Tampa Bay 2002: 24th in yards (15th passing offense), 18th in scoring 2003: 10th in yards (6th passing offense), 18th in scoring 2004: 22nd in yards (14th passing offense), 23rd in scoring 2005: 23rd in yards (25th passing offense), 20th in scoring 2006: 29th in yards (26th passing offense), 31st in scoring 2007: 18th in yards (16th passing offense), 18th in scoring 2008: 14th in yards (11th passing offense), 19th in scoring 2018: 23rd in yards (18th passing offense), 28th in scoring 2019: 11th in yards (9th passing offense), 24th in scoring After his first stint in Oakland none of his teams have even ranked in the top half of scoring offense. TB was so devoid of offensive talent he gave them just enough to go along with their defense to win a SB, then he lost Caddilac to a knee injury, but he was horrible at drafting, glad we got Mayock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 56 minutes ago, raidr4life said: Don't need to, because I know those aren't air yards, but those nobody WR's that he had like Waller, Renfrow, Williams was turning dump offs into big gains. into long gains. I posted this before....See below. https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/list/pass/team/season/week/derek-carr/CAR358797/2019/5/pass I like this one better it shows game by game looks like a peewee football season https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/derek-carr/CAR358797 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 40 minutes ago, NYRaider said: I was looking at Gruden's record today and honestly outside of his first stint here none of his teams have been that good offensively, lol. Especially for being touted as a QB guru. Tampa Bay 2002: 24th in yards (15th passing offense), 18th in scoring 2003: 10th in yards (6th passing offense), 18th in scoring 2004: 22nd in yards (14th passing offense), 23rd in scoring 2005: 23rd in yards (25th passing offense), 20th in scoring 2006: 29th in yards (26th passing offense), 31st in scoring 2007: 18th in yards (16th passing offense), 18th in scoring 2008: 14th in yards (11th passing offense), 19th in scoring 2018: 23rd in yards (18th passing offense), 28th in scoring 2019: 11th in yards (9th passing offense), 24th in scoring After his first stint in Oakland none of his teams have even ranked in the top half of scoring offense. Crazy almost a new qb every year but still managed to have a 1000 yard wr tho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raidr4life Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 8 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said: I like this one better it shows game by game looks like a peewee football season https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/derek-carr/CAR358797 Either way it's very easy to see he had only like nine 20 yard completions in those 12 weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 5 minutes ago, raidr4life said: Either way it's very easy to see he had only like nine 20 yard completions in those 12 weeks. And some wonder why we don’t score more points. That’s lightweight pathetic 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich7sena Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, raidr4life said: Don't need to, because I know those aren't air yards, but those nobody WR's that he had like Waller, Renfrow, Williams was turning dump offs into big gains. into long gains. I posted this before....See below. https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/list/pass/team/season/week/derek-carr/CAR358797/2019/5/pass What does below show? Carr's stats in a single win from 2019? Would you prefer more 20+ completions in a loss? Edited May 20, 2020 by Rich7sena Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raidr4life Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 42 minutes ago, Rich7sena said: What does below show? Carr's stats in a single win from 2019? Would you prefer more 20+ completions in a loss? Quote Either way it's very easy to see he had only like nine 20 yard completions in those 12 weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackinBlack Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 (edited) 16 hours ago, raidr4life said: Either way it's very easy to see he had only like nine 20 yard completions in those 12 weeks. if it is "very easy to see" how come you are giving an estimate of 9? lol good to see the old Derek Carr debate is still going strong also ps just playing - i think we all agree, Carr needs to take more shots. open the field up more Edited May 21, 2020 by BackinBlack 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich7sena Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 11 hours ago, raidr4life said: Is your argument Carr didn't have enough attempts to meet the criteria of the Sportsinfo Solutions Blog? Hand counting from weeks 1-17 from the Next Gen Stats link provided suggests Carr had at least 38 attempts over 20 yards. It's more likely that QB Data Mine and the the Blog have different criteria of what a deep pass is. They may also differ as to what an accurate pass is. From my point of view, Carr was an accurate passer when he targeted receivers on go routes and routes deeper down the field. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raidr4life Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Rich7sena said: Is your argument Carr didn't have enough attempts to meet the criteria of the Sportsinfo Solutions Blog? Hand counting from weeks 1-17 from the Next Gen Stats link provided suggests Carr had at least 38 attempts over 20 yards. It's more likely that QB Data Mine and the the Blog have different criteria of what a deep pass is. They may also differ as to what an accurate pass is. From my point of view, Carr was an accurate passer when he targeted receivers on go routes and routes deeper down the field. Never mind I don't even think my argument was with you i was a little drunk last night, or maybe I mixed up arguments. To be clear someone said Carr had 54 pass plays of +20 yards, my rebuttal was not air yards, that the 20 yard plays were because Renfrow, Waller, Williams YAC. So I posted Carr's passing chart of actual 20 yard passes which in the 12 games shown he only had 9 completions over 20 yards. Then the stat where Carr had 55% deep ball accuracy 2nd in the league, I was being a little sarcastic, but I was saying that's not hard if you only throw like 2 deep balls all year and complete one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raidr4life Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 On 5/19/2020 at 5:14 PM, Rich7sena said: I think the biggest culprit is lack of downfield opportunities. Carr thrived in a vertical offense with two talented receivers in 2016. Gruden's offense is horizontal, instead relying on route combinations to create separation. The problem is that Gruden isn't Kyle Shanahan, and the Raiders offense lacks overall receiving talent. Apparently, the dearth of talent at receiver stunted what Gruden wanted to do on offense, but we will see. And Frankie liking this is laughable after calling Crabs old trash and Cooper soft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turnobili Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 Gruden had to drag Jeff Garcia out of retirement just so he could get a solid QB that could grasp his system. Tampa's QB situation was abysmal. Brad Johnson, Brian Griese, Chris Simms, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 3 hours ago, raidr4life said: Never mind I don't even think my argument was with you i was a little drunk last night, or maybe I mixed up arguments. To be clear someone said Carr had 54 pass plays of +20 yards, my rebuttal was not air yards, that the 20 yard plays were because Renfrow, Waller, Williams YAC. So I posted Carr's passing chart of actual 20 yard passes which in the 12 games shown he only had 9 completions over 20 yards. Then the stat where Carr had 55% deep ball accuracy 2nd in the league, I was being a little sarcastic, but I was saying that's not hard if you only throw like 2 deep balls all year and complete one. That’s was me and I think the stat was 54 (nfl.com)pass attempts of 20+ yards or more not completions 54/16 games= about 3 deep shots per game seems believable but the fact he didn’t register on the Best deep pass qbs link I posted made me question that “qb mine”stats. but qb mine counts any pass 10+ yards as a deep pass vs other sources who think 20+ yards is more accurately equivalent to a deep pass. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 3 hours ago, Turnobili said: Gruden had to drag Jeff Garcia out of retirement just so he could get a solid QB that could grasp his system. Tampa's QB situation was abysmal. Brad Johnson, Brian Griese, Chris Simms, etc. Multiple qbs multiple wrs But grud offense still managed to produce a 1k yard wr every year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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