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The QB Thread: Everything Carr, Stidham and beyond...

RaidersAreOne

By RaidersAreOne
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BackinBlack

BackinBlack

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Does anything about this team make sense?

Lol fair enough 🤣🤣🤣

would love to finally get Josh into the endzone a couple times against Den. He’s been playing great. Really going to hurt seeing him play at all pro / pro bowl level for Kc next year

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NCOUGHMAN

NCOUGHMAN

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Posted
6 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

Lol fair enough 🤣🤣🤣

would love to finally get Josh into the endzone a couple times against Den. He’s been playing great. Really going to hurt seeing him play at all pro / pro bowl level for Kc next year

Jacobs doesn’t have a td yet dam I didn’t even trip off that. Lol yea nothing makes sense bro

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BayRaider

BayRaider

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Posted

If we go 4-13 and get the #1 pick and get CJ Stroud, the McDaniels will be the best hire Mark Davis has ever made (unintentionally). 

Stroud is probably the #2 QB prospect behind Trevor Lawrence in the past 5 years or so. If he pans out (which he almost certainly will), we will be a playoff contender every year automatically. And a Super Contender with a good roster. 

Then you can finally see real QB play and how QB is supposed to be played in this era. The Carr Backers will quickly forget about him and become obsessed with our new Franchise QB. 

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big_palooka

big_palooka

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5 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

If we go 4-13 and get the #1 pick and get CJ Stroud, the McDaniels will be the best hire Mark Davis has ever made (unintentionally). 

Stroud is probably the #2 QB prospect behind Trevor Lawrence in the past 5 years or so. If he pans out (which he almost certainly will), we will be a playoff contender every year automatically. And a Super Contender with a good roster. 

Then you can finally see real QB play and how QB is supposed to be played in this era. The Carr Backers will quickly forget about him and become obsessed with our new Franchise QB. 

I'm a Stroud fan but my lord.... crowning his *** like this just to make push the anti-Carr narrative is a bit hard to swallow.

This team is too talented to only win 4 games. If that happened, McDaniels surely would not be back. 

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BayRaider

BayRaider

Posted
Posted
Just now, big_palooka said:

I'm a Stroud fan but my lord.... crowning his *** like this just to make push the anti-Carr narrative is a bit hard to swallow.

This team is too talented to only win 4 games. If that happened, McDaniels surely would not be back. 

I’m not crowning anything. If he keeps up his level of play, he’s easily the #1 pick, and best prospect outside of Lawrence in the past 5 years and around the Burrow prospect caliber range. Definitely a better prospect than Zach Wilson, Justin Fields, Kyler Murray, Baker Mayfield, Josh Allen, etc. Talking prospect wise, not how they actually turned out. 

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bucksavage1

bucksavage1

Posted
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, BayRaider said:

If we go 4-13 and get the #1 pick and get CJ Stroud, the McDaniels will be the best hire Mark Davis has ever made (unintentionally). 

Stroud is probably the #2 QB prospect behind Trevor Lawrence in the past 5 years or so. If he pans out (which he almost certainly will), we will be a playoff contender every year automatically. And a Super Contender with a good roster. 

Then you can finally see real QB play and how QB is supposed to be played in this era. The Carr Backers will quickly forget about him and become obsessed with our new Franchise QB. 

Dolphins and Eagles last 3-0 teams. Both paying a rookie salary QB. They used the savings to bolster the team while getting great production for the QB position . Unless you got an MVP candidate at QB, rookie salary is the way to go 

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ronjon1990

ronjon1990

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Posted
9 hours ago, BayRaider said:

I’m not crowning anything. If he keeps up his level of play, he’s easily the #1 pick, and best prospect outside of Lawrence in the past 5 years and around the Burrow prospect caliber range. Definitely a better prospect than Zach Wilson, Justin Fields, Kyler Murray, Baker Mayfield, Josh Allen, etc. Talking prospect wise, not how they actually turned out. 

Still don't get the hype there. 

As far as prospects go, I understand the other guys- elite tools but awful programs like Allen at Wyoming (sidenote: major programs are likely still kicking themselves for missing that boat), the rest had seasons, some multiple seasons, at major schools in top level conferences and put up excellent numbers. The check boxes of what makes a prospect, if you will. 

Zach Wilson....his first year starting was bad and his second year they played a glorified Sunbelt schedule and he looked painfully underwhelming against the only real competition they faced in the regular season....which came in the form of the mighty mullets of Coastal Carolina. BYU was and is a solid program in it's own right, so it's not like Wilson has the Allen excuse of playing with a bunch probably best suited for D-2. 

Everything about him screamed one year wonder benefitting from a talent disparity thanks to playing a creampuff schedule. 

I don't mind taking a shot at small school QB by any means, but I want to see more than 1 year of real production if you're playing a weak schedule, especially if I'm using a top ,10 pick on you. 

Not a perfect science, of course, because you still have your Paxton Lynch's that had great multi-year production and played well on some relatively high profile games for Memphis. But I'd personally feel more comfortable with someone with plenty of good tape to dig through than with someone with Wilson's profile. 

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Steins Gate

Steins Gate

Posted
Posted
21 hours ago, BayRaider said:

I’m not crowning anything. If he keeps up his level of play, he’s easily the #1 pick, and best prospect outside of Lawrence in the past 5 years and around the Burrow prospect caliber range. Definitely a better prospect than Zach Wilson, Justin Fields, Kyler Murray, Baker Mayfield, Josh Allen, etc. Talking prospect wise, not how they actually turned out. 

I agree with the bolded. But we grade QBs differently.

When it comes to QBs I grade their mental aspects higher than the physical tools (though I love tools). What makes a generational prospect is unusually high marks in something. Elway's physical tools were unusual. Manning and Luck had unusually high football IQ. Burrow had usually high mental processing speed.

Lawrence is way overrated as a prospect. In his own draft class, he wasn't the best in any particular category. If I remember correctly, Mack Jones had the highest football IQ and mental processing. Fields was the most athletic. Trey Lance had the strongest arm. Lawrence had the best overall skill set, but not the best in any category.

Lawrence looked bad last year in a typical NFL offense. He looks decent now due to playing in an offense ran by an Andy Reid disciple (Nick Foles only looked good in an Andy Reid system).

I have CJ Stroud as a slightly higher prospect than Lawrence only because I believe he is the better pure passer. But we don't know what his intangibles are like. For QBs, it takes a good combination of physical talent, brains, and intangibles to succeed. That's why picking QBs are a crap shoot.

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true2form

true2form

Posted
Posted
22 hours ago, BayRaider said:

If we go 4-13 and get the #1 pick and get CJ Stroud, the McDaniels will be the best hire Mark Davis has ever made (unintentionally). 

Stroud is probably the #2 QB prospect behind Trevor Lawrence in the past 5 years or so. If he pans out (which he almost certainly will), we will be a playoff contender every year automatically. And a Super Contender with a good roster. 

Then you can finally see real QB play and how QB is supposed to be played in this era. The Carr Backers will quickly forget about him and become obsessed with our new Franchise QB. 

Yeah, I don't think you've watched enough of CJ play.  He's not the QB you typically want because he runs about as much as Carr. Maybe less than.

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Nightmare

Nightmare

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Posted
22 hours ago, big_palooka said:

I'm a Stroud fan but my lord.... crowning his *** like this just to make push the anti-Carr narrative is a bit hard to swallow.

This team is too talented to only win 4 games. If that happened, McDaniels surely would not be back. 

Key point in bold. The only way we're anywhere close to a top pick in this draft is if we lose Carr to a serious injury and have to play Stidham for the rest of the season.

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Steins Gate

Steins Gate

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Posted

First of all, let me say that I am far from a QB expert. And I will go as far as to say that drafting wise, I would have been pretty bad at choosing them. This is how I would have ranked each top QB since the 2017 draft.

---------

2017: Watson (1st round), Mahomes (2nd round), Trubisky (2nd round)

2018: Darnold (1st round), Baker Mayfield (1st round), Josh Rosen (2nd round), Josh Allen (3rd or 4th round round), Lamar Jackson (5th round to undrafted)

2019: Daniel Jones (late 1st round), Dwayne Haskins (late 1st round), Kyler Murray (2nd round)

2020: Joe Burrow (1st overall), Tua (1st round), Jordan love (2nd round), Justin Herbert (3rd or 4th round, I went back and forth with this), Jalen Hurts (5th round to Undrafted)

2021: Trevor Lawrence (1st overall), Justin Fields (1st round), Zach Wilson (1st round), Trey Lance (late 1st round), Mack Jones (2nd round)

---------

Obviously, the jury is still out on the 2021 class. My method of evaluation is a combination of two things. 1) How each prospect would fit into the NFL mold. And 2) What I think their ceiling would be based on known information.

Considering where they were actually drafted, I would've passed on Mahomes, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, Justin Herbert, and Jalen Hurts.

Mahomes had the basic foundation to be a good NFL QB coming out. But since he played in a gimmicky offense, I figured he would take longer to learn the position at the NFL level.

Josh Allen was horribly inaccurate coming out. I honestly didn't think he would make it. But I would've taken a chance on him by the 4th round due to his tools.

Lamar Jackson was inaccurate too and ran a little too much for my liking. Didn't think he would make it either. Worth a late round flier.

Justin Herbert had the basic foundation like Mahomes, but there were reports of him lacking intangibles and being an introvert. That dropped him big time in my view.

Jalen Hurts needed serious work on his passing skills. His accuracy was only serviceable though. Ran a little too much for my liking. What I liked about him was his reported leadership and intangibles. Was worth a late round flier.

Mahomes and Herbert are toolsy guys with good foundations.

The common threads with Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, and Jalen Hurts is the desire to silence their doubters through hard work. Also, they were drafted to organizations that were willing to be patient with their development.

In the future, I am going to have to adjust my method of evaluations. As a Raider fan though, if we ever draft a QB to replace Carr, I hope it is with a toolsy guy with a good foundation. Because historically, the Raiders don't develop QBs very well.

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NCOUGHMAN

NCOUGHMAN

Posted
Posted
22 hours ago, BackinBlack said:

This just in, and some people arent going to be happy.
Points scored, Raiders are in top 10 LOL.
Above the God like Chargers, Rams, TB, GB.

Top 10, and we all agree they are playing like crap. I think that is a positive. 

Apparently our defense is #8 in points given up and #3 in yards /game

0-3 with a overall top 10 ranked team how tf does that happen 

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BackinBlack

BackinBlack

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Apparently our defense is #8 in points given up and #3 in yards /game

0-3 with a overall top 10 ranked team how tf does that happen 

Our O and D are similar. 
no big plays given up, or made. So you end up with long drives. 
terrivle in Redzone. 
 

our D is not to blame this year, but have been far from perfect. 

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