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Ravens Forum Draft Grade

Overall Ravens Draft Grade?  

17 members have voted

  1. 1. Overall Ravens Draft Grade?

    • A+
      2
    • A
      2
    • A-
      4
    • B+
      9
    • B
      0
    • B-
      0
    • C+
      0
    • C
      0
    • C-
      0
    • D+
      0
    • D or worse
      0


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Posted (edited)

Making a thread for us to post our draft grades and discuss how we think the team did overall. Intentionally didn't go too far into detail for each pick, as we have individual prospect pages for that (linked those pages for each prospect below), but included individual pick grades and a bit of commentary to help show how I arrived at my overall position.

Overall (B+)

Very solid draft top-to-bottom. One of my favorite things about this class is that despite having gone 14-2 last season with minimal departures AND winding up with 10 picks, I easily see a route to all of these guys making the roster. That's not something that's easy to say typically. First three guys could have all been first round (or at least fringe first round) picks if you asked me before the draft and I can definitely envision them all being second contract guys. 

1-28 Patrick Queen, LB, LSU (B)

Like the player for the position, don't particularly like the position at the pick. Feel like this is a large investment of draft capital into a position where we've shown an ability in our scheme to platoon to get the most out of limited resource allocation. Hopefully Clark keeps green dot for 2020 and we play Queen in a way that maximizes his strengths and puts our D in a favorable matchup every down (i.e., not forcing him to play 100% of snaps just because he's a first round LB). That said, I am much happier with Queen at this pick than I would be with Murray and I honestly thought he would have been gone well before our pick. As someone said before, this pick makes our roster look a lot better on Madden. 


2-55 J.K. Dobbins, RB, Ohio State (B+)

"This seems like an even worse allocation of draft capital relative to our team needs," you say, "why do you have it higher graded than the Queen pick?" While you would be correct that RB was the least of our needs (other than QB and kicker), this truly seems like a BPA pick. Dobbins could easily be the best RB from this draft and gives us a special guy at the position, moreso than we had in our RB room prior to the draft. While the marginal gain for 2020 wasn't as high as it may have been at another position, this is a legit first round type of talent who improves the overall talent level of the team now and for the next several years.


3-71 Justin Madubuike, DL, Texas A&M (A+)

Probably my favorite pick of our draft. Super athletic DL who has the talent to develop into a game wrecker. I think there's a good shot he gives us 2018 Michael Pierce play and may even exceed it at some point during his rookie deal.


3-92 Devin Duvernay, WR, Texas (B+)

Wasn't super high on him before the draft, but the more I learn about the guy and watch him play, the more I like the pick for the Ravens. He's an absolute rocket out of the slot with very reliable hands. Has a RB build and can contribute as a blocker in the run game. Overall seems like a guy who will complement a Lamar-led offense well. Not the top end option some of us were hoping for, but a guy who helps keep the talent pipeline at the position stocked and hopefully stave off us needing to constantly sign a bunch of retread FAs to fill out the depth chart.


3-98 Malik Harrison, LB, Ohio State (B+)

I know a lot of folks on here were big fans of the pick. Really good value in the late 3rd and a guy who seems like he'll be able to work as both a thumper and give some rush ability from the inside.


3-106 Tyre Phillips, G, Mississippi State (A-)

Strikes me as a less athletic, but possibly more mauling KO (as a prospect, not necessarily what he turned into in the NFL). Incredible wingspan with 35"+ arms. Absolutely demolishes down blocks. Will probably play OG for us, but I think he credibly backs-up the RT position in our scheme as well.


4-143 Ben Bredeson, G, Michigan (B)

Would have really like Biadasz at this position, but I can't complain about the pick too much. Versatile interior guy who is intelligent (both in the traditional sense as well as football sense). Doubt he starts in 2020 (or even 2021), but seems like good depth to be active on game day and will help prevent us needing to pay to retain non-cornerstone linemen on the interior as their contracts come up (who subsequently net us comp picks)


5-170 Broderick Washington, DL, Texas Tech (C-)

Seems like a fine player, but doesn't appear to be a space eater at the NFL level or a plus in the rush game. Maybe he can be a solid rotational guy (maybe he's a particularly strong beneficiary of a lower snap count than he would have player in college), which would be a plus from a 5th round pick. I have the most trouble seeing where he fits on the roster year-1 of all our picks, though, unless Ellis or Mack are cut/traded in TC. Maybe the team IR-stashes him if it gets to that.


6-201 James Proche, WR, SMU (B+)

Don't know a ton about him, but seems to be polished receiver with above-average hands. While he's not super impressive athletically, getting a solid set of hands who can potentially serve as a PR in the 6th is good value.


7-219 Geno Stone, S, Iowa (A)

More than you can really ask for in a 7th round pick. Solid coverage safety who should be a plus-ST guy.
 

Edited by sp6488

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57 minutes ago, sp6488 said:

"This seems like an even worse allocation of draft capital relative to our team needs," you say, "why do you have it higher graded than the Queen pick?"

How'd you know SP, how'd you know? #BestOffenseIsAGoodDefense:ph34r:

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Without breaking it down pick by pick, I'd give us a B+/A- grade because as much as the potential of Queen is exciting, his lack of proven production is also pretty scary, and because it'll take a while to see the Dobbins pick pay off (if it does at all).

Madubuike is the "best" pick of the bunch imo - he was a solid early 2nd rounder that we snagged in the early-mid 3rd and potentially gives us the sort of DL player we've been missing for a few years now

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27 minutes ago, drd23 said:

Without breaking it down pick by pick, I'd give us a B+/A- grade because as much as the potential of Queen is exciting, his lack of proven production is also pretty scary, and because it'll take a while to see the Dobbins pick pay off (if it does at all).

Madubuike is the "best" pick of the bunch imo - he was a solid early 2nd rounder that we snagged in the early-mid 3rd and potentially gives us the sort of DL player we've been missing for a few years now

CBS’s pick by pick draft grades made a comment to the effect of “but was it really a need?”

id argue that DL youth was absolutely a need. Not just for 2020, but to maintain long term competitiveness really needed some cheap plus talent at the position. As you mentioned a penetrating interior rusher is absolutely something we haven’t had in a while. 

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^ According to that chart, PFF has 16 drafts they have ranked ahead of ours...that's wild lol

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Ray Reed said:

^ According to that chart, PFF has 16 drafts they have ranked ahead of ours...that's wild lol

Picked a RB and two LBers in the first three rounds. Basically what PFF hates. If it was up to PFF, no team would ever run the ball.

Edited by M.10.E

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Posted (edited)

Pick 1- Patrick Queen: B+
Ive said it before. Queen’s early season tape is that of a second round pick. His late season tape is probably top 20 talent. My issues with him come from the lack of production, but playing behind last years #5 draft pick, gives him an excuse. One other concern is that while he’s a very willing tackled, kind of like CJ Mosley, he’s not a physical tackler. Would not want to see him going 1v1 with Nick Chubb in the open field. But positives, he’s got elite athleticism for the position. He runs a 4.5 and that’s enough speed to really make an impact.

Pro Comparison: LaVonte David

Pick 2- JK Dobbins: A-

Make no mistake, the law of diminishing returns is a real thing. I don’t expect this pick to change the landscape of our offense. However there is a legit case to be made for JKD being the best RB in this class considering his superior ball security to Taylor and superior move set in space over Swift. Dobbins is the kind of back that can take over games. He’s an impact option as a runner and receiver... I think the best receiving back in this class is Clyde Edwards-Helair, but Dobbins is second ahead of Swift as he’s a superior route runner out of the backfield. This could be an element that Dobbins could add to. Justice Hill has the speed but not the vision to make things happen, JKD has both. Just like Ray Rice would do damage on those outlet passes from Flacco, JKD can do the same for Jackson; Ingram does it as well, but doesn’t have the speed to fully threaten the defense. JKD should protect Lamar from having to shoulder as much of the load in the rushing attack. JKD is a franchise RB and we can now in the future deploy our resources elsewhere knowing he should lockdown the position for at least 5-7 years.

Pro Comparison: Ahman Green

Pick 3- Justin Madubuike: A

Possibly our best pick in the draft. I won’t rate it as an A only because Madubuike does still have boom and bust potential. He’s got the athleticism to be the next Geno Atkins... and sometimes when you watch him he looks like he can be that dominant, but than other times he would have inconsistent play. Does this have anything to do with the reports that he’s not passionate about football? Could he just be winded and need a rest? We’ve also have never quite had this kind of DT before and I’m nervous as to how we adjust our scheme to his strengths. For those two reasons I am nervous.

edit: However if we can deploy him in a role similar to how we’ve utilized Pernell McPhee as a pass rusher along the inside that can collapse the pocket and use quickness to defeat blocks, with his added power, he could be an absolute handful to deal with. @sp6488 changed my mind here and thus I will award this with an A grade.

Pro Comparison: Kyle Williams

Pick 4- Devin Duvernay: C+

I understand the hype for Duvernay, I do. Seems like almost every draft we take a WR in the mid rounds that not many in the forum were either a) that enamored with before the draft or b) knew much about and we read some things, fall in love with the player, and he doesn’t make it in the league as anything special. Stop me if you’ve heard this story. Duvernay will need to make me a believer. The Ravens had legitimate shots at Denzel Mims and Bryan Edwards at points, yet stumbled upon Duvernay. The opportunity cost isn’t equal and fair in that comparison, sure but if in a historic WR class, we only come out with a jag or something slightly above that it will be a waste. I don’t think Duvernay will bust, but I also don’t think he will be anything special. His breakout age in college wasn’t until age 22, so do I believe he’s 

Pro Comparison: Christian Kirk

Pick 5- Malik Harrison: A

Harrison is the first pick that I would give an A grade to in this class. In retrospect it just might be our best pick and value. He’s an impact thumper option that delivers impact on tackles. His coverage isn’t a strength but also isn’t a liability due to his hip fluidity, it the ball is tossed into his direct he has the ability to make you pay, but he won’t be shadowing players out of the backfield ideally. That said his test numbers and length coming out look eerily similar to another impact LB from that conference that went somewhat underrated throughout his career as I anticipate being the case with Harrison.

Pro Comparison- David Harris 

Pick 6- Tyre Phillips: B+

He was certainly not on my radar prior to the draft, but he’s big, has excellent length, great leg power, and nice physicality. Played at the senior bowl and while I believe Javon Kinlaw is a little overrated, he was able to neutralize him. That’s the extent of my understanding. Phillips also has some OT flexibility, that said I can’t give him a higher grade without him actually having dominated along the IOL in college. The low hanging fruit of a comparison due to length is obvious, but he’s not as powerful at the POA as Kelechi Osemele was coming out of college. I would’ve given KO likely an A/A-, I knew he was going to be a stud from off the bat. His bench press and how he converted that into easy moving upfront was next level. Phillips is still very good though, but you can tell he’s actually more of a leg driver out of necessity, doesn’t have the same upper body power.

Pro Comparison: Kelechi Osemele

Pick 7- Ben Bredeson: C+

You can never have too much offensive line depth. Bredeson was an All American at the position. He’s smart and intelligent as well. But being a backup likely won’t be good enough. He will have to be an impact OL at some point, especially if Tyler Biadasz has a successful career as the opportunity cost would’ve been the same for each player. What’s more besides my obvious love for Biadasz out of the way, looking over Bredeson’s game shortly... I didn’t come away very much impressed. I don’t see a people mover type strength, I don’t see superb athleticism, no terrific balance. Really not seeing anything special. Seems like a JAG that will greatly benefit the OL room with his intelligence, but not necessarily the unit with his play on the field. Seems like a guy that could fill in during an injury and not screw things up as he doesn’t make mistakes, but doesn’t deliver plus impact either.

Pick 8- Broderick Washington: B+

Looking over Washington’s tape and it’s clear that he’s an impact option as a defensive lineman upfront. He isn’t a huge space eater similar to what we’ve had from out of Brandon Williams, Michael Pierce, or with Jelly. But he’s a player that is just as good at holding his ground against double teams and against the 1on1 has the requisite athleticism to get upfield to pressure the QB. He’s a leverage specialist with a compact frame. Someone else stated this comp and it was one that I was thinking about when watching his tape as well. Is always hustling to the ball, can knife into the backfield for plays. Can play low and utilize leverage to maintain his base against double team blocks. Mack is the space eater, Washington is the leverage specialist, who wins that camp battle will be very interesting.

Pro Comparison: Kelly Gregg

Pick 9- James Proche: B

WR that has sure hands, attacks the football in the air, and can be a reliable punt return option to get whatever yards the special teams coverage allows? Sign me up. The only downside might be the future 5th round pick we had to give up to acquire him in the process... which is why I won’t give it the extra plus to the grade. While I compare him to Snead he probably is a little more athletic and springy than Snead, so there’s that.

Pro Comparison: Willie Snead

Pick 10- Geno Stone: B

Looks like he can be a core special teamed as his athleticism is good enough for the unit and he’s a smart player on tape. I’ve only watched a little of him to this point, his combine athleticism looks sufficient to what I’m seeing of him. Can attack the box and can play two deep well enough. Reliable tackler. Will have to watch more of him, but so far the hype that says he’s potentially a draft steal, I’m not necessarily on board with. The hype would have me believe we just had an Antoine Brooks level player fall to us in the 7th, I’m not seeing that level of safety here. Quality player with quality instincts, see a less athletic version of this former Raven. So I see similar upside potential as what TZ was able to provide.

Pro Comparison: Tom Zbikowski

 

Draft Grade: B+ (3.52)
- How’d I arrive at this grade? I provide the first two days of the draft with a weighted GPA; while the last day is not weighted. I also hold the first three rounds to a higher standard than the last four. They’re generally more reliable/important in producing impact starters.

Edited by diamondbull424

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16 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

Pick 3- Justin Madubuike: A-

Possibly our best pick in the draft. I won’t rate it as an A only because Madubuike does still have boom and bust potential. He’s got the athleticism to be the next Geno Atkins... and sometimes when you watch him he looks like he can be that dominant, but than other times he would have inconsistent play. We also have never quite had this kind of DT before and I’m nervous as to how we adjust our scheme to his strengths. For those two reasons I have to knock the pick slightly.

Pro Comparison: Kyle Williams

 

On this point, I'm not sure it's possible to find an all-boom-no-bust potential guy in the third unless every other team was committing professional malfeasance. Admittedly, I'm really high on Justin Madubuike, but if he were a near certainty to meet his Geno Atkins ceiling, then he'd be drafted around pick-11, not pick-71.I think the tools are there to give our DL something we really haven't had.

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Posted (edited)

It's funny to see the grades level out around B+ among this group when it seems like we have universally been lauded as having had one of the best drafts in the league by outsiders. Think it speaks both to the fact that a.) many of us on here have very high standards for the org/are generally pretty critical and b.) how the org for the most part is viewed/respected among other fans. 

For the most part it seems like the divergence between seeing this draft as 'good' vs. 'great' comes down to the Dobbins pick. This group here is somewhat split on that pick and a bit more critical/skeptical whereas neutrals other than PFF love the value and fit. It's an interesting pick all-around for me because I think he basically has to be elite for the pick to have really hit in my eyes, but compared to most players he actually has a more believable route to elite status. 

And FWIW I'd say my draft evaluation is pretty close to @diamondbull424's - I can't help but be frustrated that we weren't more aggressive in securing a higher echelon talent at WR. I've been able to talk myself into the Dobbins pick to some extent but as I said I think the threshold for that pick to pop is pretty high IMO, but the good news is that in our offense he very well could meet those lofty expectations. I've never been enamored with Queen but I understand the pick, and although from a process standpoint I don't love the over-emphasis on ILB's, I do think that pairing him with Malik Harrison made for both great value where we got Harrison and also makes the Queen pick better from a role/fit perspective. Dobbins aside since we know how polarizing he is, Madiubuike is the clear gem of the draft from a value perspective, and I absolutely love that we went and got ourselves a young penetrating defensive linemen to learn from Campbell, it's a different and needed approach IMO compared to the usual cloggers we have pursued on the line in the past. 

Edited by BaltimoreTerp

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28 - Patrick Queen: A. This is simple. Outside of Simmons who they absolutely weren't getting, Queen was the best fit in the draft for the Ravens. Great value at this point for an obvious need and a guy that can stay on the field in any situation. 

55 - JK Dobbins: B+. What? Me giving this pick a B+? Yeah, I know. But he was a good value here (if it was neutral the grade would be a C+). RB is important to the team and Dobbins can run it anyway you want him to. The ability for the stretch runs outside is something the team doesn't have outside of Jackson. Well, Hill could if he had the vision. But now he's going to be relegated to a receiver out of the backfield... which makes the offense even more dangerous. I just hope the team has a good plan going forward because it's hard seeing Ingram, Dobbins, and Edwards split carries effectively.

71 - Justin Madubuike: A. Also simple. Probably the best value pick in the draft at an area of need that has been a need for a long time. Madubuike should be a significantly better pass-rusher than Timmy Jernigan was. And that's exciting.

92 - Devin Duvernay: B+. I like Duvernay a lot. He's fast but not frail and has great hands. Lack of the latter has been something plaguing the team in critical situations multiple times the last couple years. The value was just about right given this prodigious class. His stiff hips might be an issue with routes, but the tools are there to still be productive. He was about the last wide receiver from my higher tiers that was left on the board. The final groupings that made this wide receiver draft special. On that note Proche wasn't far behind... but more on him later.

98 - Malik Harrison: B+. Another pick where the value was just about right. Harrison isn't your classic thumper, he's athletic enough to do other things too. Instincts might be an issue but this is another situation where Clark wearing the green dot helps. Allowing Malik and Patrick both to just get lined up and do their job makes for an easier transition. This is setting the team up to have the most athletic and blitz-efficient linebacker duo... ever?

106 - Tyre Phillips: B. Finally, an offensive lineman. Phillips is kind of a hard player to grade given he's moving inside but the frame and tools are there. I'm not sure I see him playing his collegiate position of tackle with any kind of competency, his mobility limitations are real. That might preclude him from LG in Baltimore's scheme too. The value wasn't particularly great, but this class was weak too so that moves guys up boards. Still, a need is a need and Phillips looks like a guy that can fill it soon and do the job well.

143 - Ben Bredeson: B. Another interior option! The value here seems about right too. I'm not sure I see Bredeson as anything more than a competent backup though. He doesn't really do anything well or strongly, but he still does it. The smarts help too. I don't think Ben is on the level that John Urschel was but maybe he can be. Teams need guys like this to fill in for injured starters, and I think he can cover any of the interior options (center after time, but it's not like the Ravens need him there).

170 - Broderick Washington Jr.: B. This was a telling pick, reaffirming Baltimore's commitment to beefing the defensive front back up. Strong, solid, and shouldn't have any problem in the role he's out there for. It's going to be hard for Washington to get on the field for extended snaps except in very specific circumstances though. Still, depth is nice and the Ravens won't have to rely on bringing in street free agents like Ellis and Peko again. Value was fine, getting anybody that looks like a pretty sure-bet to make the roster in the back 100 draft picks is good. This is kind of like the Bredeson pick. Depth, but critical depth.

201 - James Proche: B+. Plus, plus value and a guy the Ravens obviously liked a lot given the future capital they gave up to get him. I can not believe he fell this far. Athletically he's nothing special, but if wide receivers instincts are a thing he has them in elite quantities. My comp is odd, but he kind of reminds me of Steve Smith without the athletic profile that made him such a beast. Which is a very big difference but whatever. I'm a fan. Anyways, Proche is another great hands option is always nice, and having a safe option at returner is nice since the offense is potent enough to score from anywhere on the field. As a receiver he might need more help getting open from the scheme and more explosive/dangerous options around him, but the team has that. And he can fight for the ball. Very nice pick for the 6th round.

219 - Geno Stone: B+. I'm not sure what the value for him was given his odd mashup of skills and athletic traits, but I'm really liking this pick for defensive and special teams value. To me Geno is a very solid potential option for Baltimore's dime sets up near the LoS. That's important if the team is going to continue to run that out there. I think he's a natural replacement for Levine. Not sure he's going to be an ace on special teams but I doubt he's a negative there either. This is about as good as a pick a team can make in the 7th round. It would be an A grade if it wasn't the 7th, hopefully he fell because teams just missed on his evaluation.

----------

Probably a strong B+ from me overall. It's funny because that seems low to me given this is my favorite draft for the Ravens in recent memory, but it is what it is. I would have liked to see offensive line taken higher but besides Josh Jones falling the board wasn't in their favor. I'm excited for this draft. Hollywood last year was pretty special as a single pick, but this class offers more potential impact overall. 

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1 hour ago, sp6488 said:

On this point, I'm not sure it's possible to find an all-boom-no-bust potential guy in the third unless every other team was committing professional malfeasance. Admittedly, I'm really high on Justin Madubuike, but if he were a near certainty to meet his Geno Atkins ceiling, then he'd be drafted around pick-11, not pick-71.I think the tools are there to give our DL something we really haven't had.

Oh, I agree and I think I want to give him an A. Heck I think he’s a better player than Malik Harrison. However I’ve seen what we can do with ILBs and I’m confident that we know what to do with a Harrison type of player to allow him to meet his ceiling. 

Also what I didn’t mention were the reports that JM isn’t as passionate about the game of football... how credible are they? I’m not sure. There were reports that said similar things about Haloti Ngata and he turned out pretty darn well for us. But then you have guys like Matt Elam who also had top notch athleticism but weren’t seemingly passion about football and busted hard.

So it’s really three things that make me a little nervous, but the inconsistent play I tie together with the reports of uninspired football passion. That and just never having seen us have a player like Madubuike. We had Timmy Jernigan of a somewhat similar mold and it felt like we didn’t know how to deploy him on defense and he never fulfilled his promise. 

Though perhaps you’re right and I’m overthinking it. Maybe we’ll use Madubuike like a bigger Pernell McPhee in which case we do already have a role for him to dominate within. 🤔

... you’re right, I’ll adjust the rating to an A. I’m also high on him, if we can put him in that Pernell McPhee role as a sort of hybrid edge/DT option than I think we can get him on the field for early impact so he can succeed and show his dominance. We also no longer have Greg Mattison/Dean Pees so there’s more creativity on defense now.

You've changed my mind and confidence on this pick.

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4 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:

But then you have guys like Matt Elam who also had top notch athleticism but weren’t seemingly passion about football and busted hard.

FWIW, Elam was a pretty poor athlete. 

matt-elam-ras-10732.png?w=1100&ssl=1

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I honestly don’t see any negatives in our draft picks. I guess if I wanna nitpick, the worst pick would be proche. And even I get excited thinking at least maybe he’ll be our sure handed punt returner at the worst.

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3 hours ago, Davesta said:

I honestly don’t see any negatives in our draft picks. I guess if I wanna nitpick, the worst pick would be proche. And even I get excited thinking at least maybe he’ll be our sure handed punt returner at the worst.

Welcome to the board!

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