2021 NFL Draft Thread

[Jeremy408]

1 minute ago, NYRaider said:

AVT played all of his snaps last season at LT, does that mean he projects as a LT in the NFL?

Well there are some teams I think he can supposedly lol

[NYRaider]

Just now, Jeremy408 said:

Well there are some teams I think he can supposedly lol

He had good tape in a power conference playing LT but almost everyone projects him as an OG. Why is that? He played exclusively at LT, it's almost as if physical tools have something to do with projection, because maybe NFL players are better at football then college players or something. 

Amik Robertson played 7% of his snaps his senior season at LA Tech in the slot, why didn't he play well there last season? There was college tape of him doing it at a high level. Tanner Muse played 55% of his snaps in the box in more of a LB role in his final year at Clemson. Why did he struggle to adjust to playing LB full time in the NFL? 

Based on your logic they should've been able to make a seamless transition. Mayock admitted he made some mistakes projecting guys being able to learn new positions and play in spots that they weren't accustom too. 

Basham kicked inside on 7% of his snaps over the course of 2 seasons, he played almost exclusively on the edge. The NFL Draft in general is just projection and you're making a projection based on an extremely limited sample size. Maybe he will be able to start as a base edge and kick inside on passing downs. But he'd be a reach at #17 regardless and if you take him there do you just bench Ferrell? 

[NYRaider]

Carlos Basham will be a 24 year old rookie, so he likely will be the pick. @Jeremy408 he's actually older than Ferrell. 

[Jeremy408]

33 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

He had good tape in a power conference playing LT but almost everyone projects him as an OG. Why is that? He played exclusively at LT, it's almost as if physical tools have something to do with projection, because maybe NFL players are better at football then college players or something. 

Amik Robertson played 7% of his snaps his senior season at LA Tech in the slot, why didn't he play well there last season? There was college tape of him doing it at a high level. Tanner Muse played 55% of his snaps in the box in more of a LB role in his final year at Clemson. Why did he struggle to adjust to playing LB full time in the NFL? 

Based on your logic they should've been able to make a seamless transition. Mayock admitted he made some mistakes projecting guys being able to learn new positions and play in spots that they weren't accustom too. 

Basham kicked inside on 7% of his snaps over the course of 2 seasons, he played almost exclusively on the edge. The NFL Draft in general is just projection and you're making a projection based on an extremely limited sample size. Maybe he will be able to start as a base edge and kick inside on passing downs. But he'd be a reach at #17 regardless and if you take him there do you just bench Ferrell? 

The funny thing is I actually understand your perspective(And I respect it)With that being said here are some things that you may be missing:

With Vera Tucker, Yeah that's true he's mainly projected as a guard because he played guard for most of his career And the fact that he played left tackle this past year to help the team out (which speaks to his athleticism). Which is why there are a handful of people that actually think he can play any position on the line. However I don't because he wasn't necessarily tested against NFL level pass rushers In a one on one situation(like what you'll find at the senior bowl). So when looking at Vera Tucker Him playing left tackle It's just a feather in his But what is getting him noticed as a first round draft pick is that he has all pro guard potential with the ability to play up and down the line in a pinch.

With Amik Robertson Robertson The reason why he is considered a slot corner is because he's 5'8 meaning he can't play outside. Can you play some slot in college But like with other positions in Paul Gunther scheme, It has been said that a lot is actually required for his version of a slot corner. They say it's kind of like a third safety type deal (Which is the reason why they went and got Lamarcus Joyner). Here's another player I would like to see have an offseason. 

Muse struggled because he played some form of a hybrid position at Clemson(not a linebacker or a safety really) Which worked for them but it doesn't really do well for Prospects that play that position(Which is why Isaiah Simmons struggled early in the season also). 

.There's nothing that suggest that Basham can't move up and down the line The way Michael Bennett with used. Take Michael Bennett's testings for example: 

40 Yard Dash:4.86 seconds

40 Yard (MPH):16.83 (MPH)

20 Yard Split:2.76 seconds

10 Yard Split:1.62 seconds

Bench Press:(N/A) reps (225 lb)

Vertical Leap:36.5 inches

Height:6'4 

Weight:274 lbs

Broad Jump:(N/A) inches

Hand Size:9.75 inches

Arm Length:33.5 inches

20 Yd Shuttle:(N/A) seconds

3-Cone:N/A

Now here are Basham's

Position	Height	Weight	Off. 40 Time	Unoff. 40 Time	10-Yd Split	Bench	3-cone	Vert	Broad	Hand	Arm
Carlos Basham	DL	6032	274	4.64		20	7.13		34	10-2	9 1/4	32 7/8

What Based on a comparison of these measurable's, why cant he can't play the position that Michael Bennett played(Which is essentially what he did in college). 

I think that's what sets them apart from the other examples that you gave. 

Edited April 14, 2021 by Jeremy408

[BayRaider]

I hope this isn’t a real discussion. Vera-Tucker isn’t playing OT with arms that are barely 32”. Not even 32 1/2. I don’t think there’s a single OT in the NFL with that current length out of 64 starting OT’s. 
 

Vera-Tucker is a pure Guard at the next level (probably an All-Pro Guard). He may be able to play RT a game or two if you really need him to, but you wouldn’t want him starting more than that. 

Edited April 14, 2021 by BayRaider

[NYRaider]

I just personally think Basham is a major reach at #17. It would be reminiscent of the Arnette pick at #19 last year, taking another older rookie with a "high floor/low ceiling." His testing numbers were solid but pro day numbers aren't very accurate and he has short arms and super small hands. His 32 7/8" arms and 9 1/4" hands would be some of the shortest/smallest for an edge player ever drafted in the 1st round. 

[NYRaider]

Just now, BayRaider said:

I hope this isn’t a real discussion. Vera-Tucker isn’t playing OT with arms that are barely 32”. Not even 32 1/2. I don’t think there’s a single OT in the NFL with that current length out of 64 starting OT’s. 
 

Vera-Tucker is a pure Guard at the next level (probably an All-Pro Guard). He nay be able to play RT a game or two if you really need him to, but you wouldn’t want him starting more than that. 

How many dominant edge players have super short arms and small hands? 

[BayRaider]

1 minute ago, NYRaider said:

How many dominant edge players have super short arms and small hands? 

I don’t know if you’re agreeing with me or disagreeing. 

[BayRaider]

As for your guy’s Basham discussion, I’ve always liked him way more than most people, and have him #40 on the rankings I recently did. Which is way higher than most people have him. However, us picking him at 17? Hard pass.

[NYRaider]

3 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

As for your guy’s Basham discussion, I’ve always liked him way more than most people, and have him #40 on the rankings I recently did. Which is way higher than most people have him. However, us picking him at 17? Hard pass.

He fits the Raider mold though as a 24 year old rookie. He'll be 30 at the end of his rookie deal.

[reddevil]

4 hours ago, big_palooka said:

Some  random draft thoughts and conclusions I've compiled over the last week defense edition:

Edge, Charles Snowden, Virginia is a nice developmental prospect. Long and athletic, but needs to put some weight on.

The only iDL prospect I would draft is Levi Onwuzurike

Jevon Holland is the best S in this class and will be a steal in round 2

Safety Christain Uphoff is an under the radar player who can become a starter by year 2 or 3.

Greg Newsome II might be the best 2nd best CB in the class. But I'd rather draft Tyson Campbell in round 2 who might be just as good but nobody knows it yet

Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah If you have a role for him, he's going to be a star. He could be a Derwin James type in Bradley's defens

A smart coordinator would draft Micah Parsons and let him get after the QB on third downs. He can cover to. No player would provide more day 1 impact for the Raiders

LB Buddy Johnson is a guy I want on my team

Interesting names. Have a look at some of the lesser know guys.

Agree on JOK. He just looks like everything I have wanted us to draft for the linebacker spot in forever. I understand why some fans feel it might be unnecessary to pick an LB early - but for me it’s simple. The 1st round is for playmakers and difference makers - not to fill needs. That can wait. And I think he is one of only a very small number of players who might be available at 17 who could be described as that.

[NYRaider]

9 minutes ago, reddevil said:

Agree on JOK. He just looks like everything I have wanted us to draft for the linebacker spot in forever. I understand why some fans feel it might be unnecessary to pick an LB early - but for me it’s simple. The 1st round is for playmakers and difference makers - not to fill needs. That can wait. And I think he is one of only a very small number of players who might be available at 17 who could be described as that.

With JOK though you're going to have to utilize him correctly for him to be effective. We've seen a number of guys with similar skill-sets kind of get stuck in no mans land in guys like Isaiah Simmons, Jabril Pepppers, Deone Bucannon, and Darron Lee.

 

[CaliforniaKid7]

26 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

I hope this isn’t a real discussion. Vera-Tucker isn’t playing OT with arms that are barely 32”. Not even 32 1/2. I don’t think there’s a single OT in the NFL with that current length out of 64 starting OT’s. 
 

Vera-Tucker is a pure Guard at the next level (probably an All-Pro Guard). He may be able to play RT a game or two if you really need him to, but you wouldn’t want him starting more than that. 

Do you think Jenkins is an OT at the next level? He’s sub 33in arms. 
 

Personally I think AVT could hang at OT just as Isaiah Wynn has. IMO you take him in the 1st round you should trial him outside first. If 1-2in is truly the only thing preventing him from playing outside I want to see it for myself. If so, kick him in and enjoy a top iOL for a decade. 

[BayRaider]

Just now, CaliforniaKid7 said:

Do you think Jenkins is an OT at the next level? He’s sub 33in arms. 
 

Personally I think AVT could hang at OT just as Isaiah Wynn has. IMO you take him in the 1st round you should trial him outside first. If 1-2in is truly the only thing preventing him from playing outside I want to see it for myself. If so, kick him in and enjoy a top iOL for a decade. 

Nope. It's probably an unpopular opinion on here but I think Jenkins is a Guard at the next level. He is being pushed up on the internet because of YouTubers. 

[CaliforniaKid7]

Just now, BayRaider said:

Nope. It's probably an unpopular opinion on here but I think Jenkins is a Guard at the next level. He is being pushed up on the internet because of YouTubers. 

Because of Youtubers? PFF, TDN, DJ, etc all have him as a OT at the next level and a top 32 ranked player. Not saying they’re right but I don’t think he’s getting attention because of Youtubers. He’s ranked well in the draft community as well.