2021 Draft Talk

[Cearbhall]

5 minutes ago, swede700 said:

And considering how he played, there's no reason for them to do so.  If he'd played more like that Falcons' game all season long, it would made for a more difficult decision, but there is no decision to be made.

Mostly agree. The only decision is if another team expresses interest in trading for Cousins. I think drafting a QB in the first round would cause another team to consider it. It would also lead to Cousins being willing to go to a team that he thinks will be more committed to him as their future starting QB.

[Ozzy]

24 minutes ago, CriminalMind said:

I see no realistic path for the Vikings to cut Cousins.

I agree, I never came across information that I linked to earlier, and March 2021 is coming up but they still would have to eat what $41 million dollars still which is not great at all.    But yeah if they cut Cousins they got nothing in terms of a real QB because the QBs who would fit will be long gone in the draft anyway.  So yeah I agree he stays with the team and should not be cut and if so it makes drafting a QB high in the draft an option but not option #1 at all.

Thus the focus should be on the OL and DL not the next franchise QB who will not be there anyway.  

[Ozzy]

11 minutes ago, Cearbhall said:

Mostly agree. The only decision is if another team expresses interest in trading for Cousins. I think drafting a QB in the first round would cause another team to consider it. It would also lead to Cousins being willing to go to a team that he thinks will be more committed to him as their future starting QB.

I thought maybe the Houston Texans, if Watson wants to get out trade Watson for Kirk Cousins and a draft pick or two.  I would do that all day long no question about it.  Not sure Houston would though, and Kirk played really good 2nd half of the year but is not even close to the same level of QB as Deshaun Watson.

I hear C. Patterson on the Bears talk about wanting Watson on the Bears, fact is though I bet Houston would want Kirk Cousins way more than they want freaking Mitchell Trubisky in any trade scenario.  

[SemperFeist]

Watson is virtually untradeable. 

[Vikes22]

35 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

I thought maybe the Houston Texans, if Watson wants to get out trade Watson for Kirk Cousins and a draft pick or two.  I would do that all day long no question about it.  Not sure Houston would though, and Kirk played really good 2nd half of the year but is not even close to the same level of QB as Deshaun Watson.

I hear C. Patterson on the Bears talk about wanting Watson on the Bears, fact is though I bet Houston would want Kirk Cousins way more than they want freaking Mitchell Trubisky in any trade scenario.  

What do you think it would be cost us to trade for Watson? 
 

And what would you give up?

 

[Ozzy]

32 minutes ago, Vikes22 said:

What do you think it would be cost us to trade for Watson? 
 

And what would you give up?

 

I have no idea, I do not always get trades and how they equal each other.  Usually it is just contracts that match up and are close to one another.  Some examples from ESPN writers are.

 

Dolphins trade Tua and the 2021 #3 and #50 pick in the draft.  
 

 

Patriots trade Damien Harris, JC Jackson, this years 1st, 2nd, 4th and 5th round pick plus 2022 1st round and 3rd round pick and Jarrett Stidham if they want him.

 

Jets trade both 2021 1st round picks and 2022 both 1st round picks.

 

 

Sure the Texans can figure it out I assume and will do whatever Watson wants which includes what coach and what kind of offensive coordinator and or GM.  Still Kirk Cousins is an accomplished QB, does not have the potential Tua does in the future but is also far more proven and who knows if Tua will be as productive long term and health wise as Cousins has been.  

 

Hard to say, Kirk Cousins and Anthony Barr and maybe some draft picks?  Not sure the Texans would love either contract they are under so that is not a plus.  

 

1 hour ago, SemperFeist said:

Watson is virtually untradeable. 

On paper yeah but if he is that pissed off, players have far much more power now a days than they used to have.  Then again it is not like Watson can threaten to not sign a long term deal because he already has and is locked up till 2025.

[CWood21]

4 hours ago, Ozzy said:

It is on the table sure, but I am saying both will not be there so it is not even really a discussion.  

 

The chance of this not happening is not very high, Jags and Jets take a QB so now down to Lance and Wilson and Atlanta could take one, Detroit could, Carolina probably will, Denver could and the 49ers probably will most likely.  Sure if all 5 of those teams after the top two pass on those two QBs it is on the table, but no freaking way that happens unless one trades or signs for a vet and clearly that is not very likely either.

It was a situation that could happen.  Not saying it's likely to happen or it will happen, but you just said you're okay with them passing on a franchise QB in favor of a lesser prospect?  Let me send your resume up to Zygi to get you Spielman's job if that's the case.

[CWood21]

1 hour ago, Ozzy said:

I thought maybe the Houston Texans, if Watson wants to get out trade Watson for Kirk Cousins and a draft pick or two.  I would do that all day long no question about it.  Not sure Houston would though, and Kirk played really good 2nd half of the year but is not even close to the same level of QB as Deshaun Watson.

I hear C. Patterson on the Bears talk about wanting Watson on the Bears, fact is though I bet Houston would want Kirk Cousins way more than they want freaking Mitchell Trubisky in any trade scenario.  

Of course you would.  But Houston would laugh you off the phone right now, and probably wouldn't return your phone call for a week if you made that offer.

[Ozzy]

34 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

It was a situation that could happen.  Not saying it's likely to happen or it will happen, but you just said you're okay with them passing on a franchise QB in favor of a lesser prospect?  Let me send your resume up to Zygi to get you Spielman's job if that's the case.

What the hell are you talking about?  Franchise QB?  Zach Wilson who played no one this season in terms of legit competition and was not considered a 1st round one year ago, or Trey Lance who is wildly talented but has only played one season in his career and is an absolute project QB that needs development.  But again who gives a crap, they will not be there at 14 anyway.  Yeah and Justin Fields will be sitting there at 14 as well right.  

Anything else you want to add in terms of totally ridiculous things that could happen in the draft?  Did not even comment on the Green Bay Packers offensive line did you, yeah easy to pass on them and go for a QB when you already have stable elite level players at an absolute position of need.  

 

Yeah pass on 1st round QB considering your contractual obligation to the current one cannot really be gotten out of, and they cannot get out of paying him so might as well give him a chance to succeed then since they already hooked onto his wagon.  If they did not want him long term then they should not have given him an extension in March 2020 huh.  But no draft his replacement with guys who will not be there anyway and keep getting him absolutely crushed in the pocket, great idea.  

 

What are you discussing here exactly?  It is all just hypothetical but nice to be at least a little based in reality of what could occur.  Watson talk is all hypothetical and a dream of course, along with Zach Wilson or Trey Lance sitting there at 14 really.

[CWood21]

1 minute ago, Ozzy said:

What the hell are you talking about?  Franchise QB?  Zach Wilson who played no one this season in terms of legit competition and was not considered a 1st round one year ago, or Trey Lance who is wildly talented but has only played one season in his career and is an absolute project QB that needs development.  But again who gives a crap, they will not be there at 14 anyway.  Yeah and Justin Fields will be sitting there at 14 as well right.  

It's a hypothetical.  Nothing more, nothing less.

3 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Anything else you want to add in terms of totally ridiculous things that could happen in the draft?  Did not even comment on the Green Bay Packers offensive line did you, yeah easy to pass on them and go for a QB when you already have stable elite level players at an absolute position of need.  

I mean, Aaron Rodgers wasn't supposed to last until 24.  Not sure what the Packers' OL has to do with this discussion.  Are you saying the Packers' OL is the reason for the Packers' success?

 

4 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Yeah pass on 1st round QB considering your contractual obligation to the current one cannot really be gotten out of, and they cannot get out of paying him so might as well give him a chance to succeed then since they already hooked onto his wagon.  If they did not want him long term then they should not have given him an extension in March 2020 huh.  But no draft his replacement with guys who will not be there anyway and keep getting him absolutely crushed in the pocket, great idea. 

So...you'll compound one bad decision by making another bad decision.  Seems like a smart idea.

[swede700]

 

[Ozzy]

52 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

 

I mean, Aaron Rodgers wasn't supposed to last until 24.  Not sure what the Packers' OL has to do with this discussion.  Are you saying the Packers' OL is the reason for the Packers' success?

 

Aaron Rodgers was sacked 23 times this season and hit 49 times, if you take out two really bad games where 10 sacks and 18 QB hits took place, they would be leading the NFL in only 13 sacks given up with only 31 QB hits.

 

Kirk Cousins on the other hand sacked 39 times and hit 121 times.  With 9 different games where Cousins was hit 8+ times.  On the other hand Aaron Rodgers had 9 games where he was hit only 2 times.  

 

Is Aaron Rodgers a better QB than Kirk Cousins, obviously yes.  Does the protection Aaron Rodgers receive have nothing to do with his success this year?  Bull**** on that one there buddy.  Want to trade offensive lines then if the OL has nothing to do with anything.  Here take the Vikings OL against the Rams on Saturday and hope Aaron Rodgers does not have his career ended in that game alone because of injury.  No QB does well when pressured constantly and harassed in the pocket.

 

Too bad for them Jared Veldheer has the virus and cannot play, was nuts they were even able to sign him and he could have helped out.  Oddly enough though they have so many other solid linemen it is not like they will get destroyed or something because many of those other guys can obviously play.

Outside of the athletic marvels at QB in Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen who can create with their legs, all the teams in the playoffs have solid offensive lines and many have multiple Pro bowl level players on those lines. And is not like the Bills and Ravens are terrible either.  And what a shock, Cleveland is good with an amazing offensive line with three All Pro players on it, oh no that has nothing to do with it.

[vikesfan89]

1 hour ago, swede700 said:

 

The dolphins are sitting pretty,  especially if Tua is their guy 

[Cearbhall]

I would give up Kirk Cousins and three first round draft picks for Watson. Then we wouldn't have to worry about who is available at 14 and instead can talk about what the team will do with their picks after the second round.

[CWood21]

27 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Aaron Rodgers was sacked 23 times this season and hit 49 times, if you take out two really bad games where 10 sacks and 18 QB hits took place, they would be leading the NFL in only 13 sacks given up with only 31 QB hits.

 

Kirk Cousins on the other hand sacked 39 times and hit 121 times.  With 9 different games where Cousins was hit 8+ times.  On the other hand Aaron Rodgers had 9 games where he was hit only 2 times.  

Rodgers is also a year removed from a 39 sack season, in which the top 5 OL (Bakhtiari, Bulaga, Linsley, Turner, and Jenkins) was more talented then this year's OL.  Going from Bryan Bulaga to Lucas Patrick is a massive downgrade, plus Bahktiari and Linsley have both missed time with injury forcing Ricky Wagner to play more offensive snaps.  Yet somehow with a "less talented" OL, they've managed to give up less sacks.

30 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Is Aaron Rodgers a better QB than Kirk Cousins, obviously yes.  Does the protection Aaron Rodgers receive have nothing to do with his success this year?  Bull**** on that one there buddy.  Want to trade offensive lines then if the OL has nothing to do with anything.  Here take the Vikings OL against the Rams on Saturday and hope Aaron Rodgers does not have his career ended in that game alone because of injury.  No QB does well when pressured constantly and harassed in the pocket.

This isn't the first year the Packers have had a great OL.  They've had it in recent years, but it didn't translate into keeping sacks low.  This year was the lowest sack total of Rodgers' career as a starter, so is it more likely he finally bought into LaFleur's scheme and got rid of the ball quicker OR do you think a less talented OL suddenly figured out how to play elite?

32 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Too bad for them Jared Veldheer has the virus and cannot play, was nuts they were even able to sign him and he could have helped out.  Oddly enough though they have so many other solid linemen it is not like they will get destroyed or something because many of those other guys can obviously play.

Don't really think Veldheer would play tbh barring injury.  He was more of a safety net in case of injury.  Right now, the Packers are dangerously thin.  Our top 6 OL are currently projected to start with Bakh injured, so your top backups are Yosh Nijman and Jon Runyan, neither of which inspire confidence.  Adding Veldheer gave them the flexibility that they could move Billy Turner back to RG, and bring Lucas Patrick off the bench.