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The Jets and Jamal Adams

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1 hour ago, NJC33 said:

Antics aside, he's without question that good: I have very little doubt in my mind his career will finish in the realm of Polamalu/Reed.

Have you ever seen Polamalu or Reed play? They were ungodly.

Jamal Adams would have a very long way to go before reaching that kind of talk. That's crazy talk.

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1 hour ago, NJC33 said:

Shall we compare more than just INT's? (Through 3yrs)

Adams: 2x Pro-bowler, 2x All-pro

  • PD: 25, FF: 6, TFL: 28, Tackles (Solo): 210, Sacks: 12, TD: 1

Polamalu: 2x Pro-bowler, 1x All-pro

  • PD: 26, FF: 3, TFL: 13, Tackles (Solo): 177, Sacks: 6, TD: 1

If you want to use statistic against him, at least tell the whole story.. Alternate reality? Not really..

Pretty easy to misconstrue who’s better by using bulk stats over a short period of time when one of the players (Troy) didn’t even start for a 1/3 of the time being compared. That’s no slight in Troy in and of itself either, few rookie defenders ever got a start under Cowher.

 

And if there was ever a defender whose game didn’t show up in the stat box (even though he had great stats), it would be Troy. The man just flew all over the field making tackles and splash plays. Don’t disrespect his game by playing this dumb game.

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1 hour ago, Yin-Yang said:

He’s not Reed or Polamalu, lol. Not right now anyway. 

But he doesn’t need to be to be a game changer, nor do you need that type of player at safety in order for them to make an impact. Look what Mathieu did for that Chiefs defense or Earl for that Ravens D. The Seahawks haven’t looked like themselves since ET went down a couple seasons back (Sherman’s status didn’t help either, tbf). As devalued as safeties are, I don’t remember any great defenses that weren’t getting high quality safety play. 

Almost every team in recent memory that has won the super bowl has had pro bowl caliber safety play.

Last year the Chiefs have Mathieu.

Patriots have had McCourty for all of their recent super bowl wins. 

The Eagles had Malcolm Jenkins 

The Broncos had TJ Ward who was a pro bowler around that time I believe. 

The Seahawks had 2, though obviously different type of players in Earl Thomas and Kam Chancellor. 

The Ravens had Ed Reed, even at his advanced age was still one of the better safeties in the game. 

The Giants had Antrel Rolle. 

The Packers had Nick Collins. 

The Steelers obviously had Troy P. 

Some say it's a devalued position, and maybe, but I personally think it's an incredibly underrated position in terms of how important it is. A great safety by its might not be as important as an edge rusher, but a safety that can play over the top, play like a mini LB in run support, cover backs and tight ends, and make some plays in the backfield, makes a WORLD of difference in terms of turning an average defense into a good one and a good defense into an elite one. And obviously those guys vary from just how talented they were, but they range from pro bowl caliber that year or close to it for the most part, to downright elite, all timers. And those teams certainly had other great players and some had positions that were more important or played a bigger part in the team success, but I think great safety play is a key to fielding a defense capable of being great and winning big games in todays era where there's more passing, less base defense, and more and more athletic guys at running back, WR, and TE. 

Adams to me seems like the easiest selection to the next group of young guys that turn into downright elite safeties. Every time I watch him I come away impressed. And I don't think pure coverage is his strongest attribute, but I haven't seen him and thought he was bad. And he brings so much more to the table, he's still incredibly young, and he seems determined to be great and a hard worker. I wouldn't just give him away. Now if he is asking to be paid in the ball park of elite pass rushers or something, I wouldn't pay that and if he won't budge I would trade him for a first and a day two pick because you would be lucky to get that (if everyone knows he won't budge on his contract demands). But if he just wants a contract making him the highest paid Safety, I'd feel comfortable paying that. I would probably try my best to play some hard ball and get him to play out this upcoming season with all the uncertainty around everything with Covid. Only the team and Adams knows if that's possible or if holding off a year will result in a holdout or a fractured locker room. History says it likely wont though and he would cave sooner than later, and be happy to take the contact next offseason. He just doesn't have a ton of leverage with how many years he has left and the franchise tag being around. But there are exceptions where it's turned ugly. Hard to way the risk/benefits to holding off paying him for another season. 

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24 minutes ago, Duluther said:

Pretty easy to misconstrue who’s better by using bulk stats over a short period of time when one of the players (Troy) didn’t even start for a 1/3 of the time being compared. That’s no slight in Troy in and of itself either, few rookie defenders ever got a start under Cowher.

 

And if there was ever a defender whose game didn’t show up in the stat box (even though he had great stats), it would be Troy. The man just flew all over the field making tackles and splash plays. Don’t disrespect his game by playing this dumb game.

So ignore each players rookie season, the statistical comparison still holds.. 

The "dumb game" you're referring to was started by someone who chose to just isolate INT's. Obviously statistics don't tell all, but if you're going to play that game at least do it objectively. It's funny because Jamal's style of play is most comparable to Troy of all people.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, NJC33 said:

He's playing towards that trajectory...

Making a comparison to the hierarchy of Reed/Palamalu isn't going to sit well with some...But, I believe Adam's is that good and more importantly, he posses the mentality to keep getting better. Let's be real, not many people watch the Jets: Assuming the accolades continue to pile on (Which I'm betting they will), people will naturally have a different perception of his game. IMO, he's already among the top 5 defenders in the league.

Been a NYer for most of my life, I catch most of the Jet games. 

Trajectory hardly matters (especially with Troy, who didn’t start full time early in his career). Troy and Reed aren’t two of the best because they had great starts to their careers (Reed still did). They’re great because of what they did at their best and in their primes, which was all-time great safety play. It’s like saying Dak Prescott is the next Tom Brady because if you look at their first three seasons, Dak has superior stats. Stats, especially for a safety, don’t tell the whole story - or even half of it. Even then - and I ask because you brought up Troy’s stats - do you want to compare Ed Reed statistically to Mal? 

Adams isn’t close to that level yet. It’s fine if you want to project him, but he’s not there right now. 

Edited by Yin-Yang

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, BleedTheClock said:

I was viciously attacked by Jets fans when I proposed that they address their awful pass rush with a trade that would send Jamal Adams to Jacksonville in exchange for Ngakoue and change lol.  And then Jets fans were saying the only way he gets traded is for multiple 1sts and a player. 

If I'm Jets GM and have Jamal Adams under contract for the next TWO years and can franchise him in 2022 if need be, Jamal will just have to wait. He can play all he wants on social media, but the fact is nobody knows the salary cap implications for 2021 given the pandemic's effects on 2020 revenue, it would be insane to extend him now.  Poor Jamal is not going to get what he wants quite yet (1. to be a Cowboy. 2. to be highest paid defensive player in the NFL and 3. to be the highest paid safety in the NFL. )  He'll probably get #3 one day and maybe #1.  #2 is LOLable.

Edited by dcat

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Just now, Yin-Yang said:

Been a NYer for most of my life, I catch most of the Jet games. 

Trajectory hardly matters (especially with Troy, who didn’t start full time early in his career). Troy and Reed aren’t two of the best because they had great starts to their careers (Reed still did). They’re great because of what they did at their best and in their primes, which was al-time great safety play. It’s like saying Dak Prescott is the next Tom Brady because if you look at their first three seasons, Dak has superior stats. Stats, especially for a safety, don’t tell the whole story - or even half of it. Even then - and I ask because you brought up Troy’s stats - do you want to compare Ed Reed statistically to Mal? 

Adams isn’t close to that level yet. It’s fine if you want to project him, but he’s not there right now. 

I actually couldn't agree more, which is why I'm so bullish on Adam's. 

His mentality is along the lines of Reed/Troy and other truly great players. Since entering the league he's been very public about his aspirations and the legacy he intends to leave behind. Talk is cheap, but through three seasons, we've seen a guy who continues to elevate his game each year. Statistic alone are misleading, but being awarded an All-Pro twice in your first three seasons is typically more telling (In reference to your Dak comparison). 

It's a crazy thought only because people look at Reed/Troy collectively - Obviously Jamal isn't going to reach that prestige in three season. I used Troy because that's whose style of play he more closely emulates, so statistically it's be a better comparison.

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2 hours ago, NJC33 said:

In what sense?

From an outsiders perspective? Sure, he's entitled and a bit of a millennial cry-baby... But, every report suggests players and coaches alike RAVE about his leadership. "Leadership" was one of the reasons he was so highly regarded coming out of LSU. He was voted a captain after a relatively underwhelming rookie season, that doesn't happen unless you're widely respected in the locker room. 

The Jets have 7 team captains.  Jamal is one of them.  Jets team captains historically have been riduculous.  Look it up.  Means very little.  Do you actually read what Jamal tweets?  Especially the ones he deletes?  Jamal is about Jamal. Period.

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1 minute ago, dcat said:

The Jets have 7 team captains.  Jamal is one of them.  Jets team captains historically have been riduculous.  Look it up.  Means very little.  Do you actually read what Jamal tweets?  Especially the ones he deletes?  Jamal is about Jamal. Period.

You don't have to like the guy, but acting like players/coaches don't respect him is simply wrong. 

Again, we're talking about someone who's "Leadership" has been unanimously praised by those around him dating back to college. Your interpretation of his twitter or how it makes you feel doesn't change that. I don't necessarily agree with his choices either, but knocking his leadership is frivolous.

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15 minutes ago, NJC33 said:

You don't have to like the guy, but acting like players/coaches don't respect him is simply wrong. 

Again, we're talking about someone who's "Leadership" has been unanimously praised by those around him dating back to college. Your interpretation of his twitter or how it makes you feel doesn't change that. I don't necessarily agree with his choices either, but knocking his leadership is frivolous.

True leaders don't put themselves before others.  You just watch how this unfolds.  Jamal is no leader.  

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22 minutes ago, dcat said:

True leaders don't put themselves before others.  You just watch how this unfolds.  Jamal is no leader.  

I mean, that's your opinion. Countless coaches & players say otherwise. How this unfolds will only change his perception in the media, not whatever locker room he's in. 

 

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Posted (edited)

People get offended too easily with comparisons. Carl Banks said Jamal is a more athletic Steve Atwater and nicknamed Jamal “the problem“ because he has to be accounted for on every play.

Any Atwater fan might find that offensive considering Atwater was a great player and is a HoF and Jamal is only 3 years into his career. It’s a comparison and somewhat of a view of what a player can be if he continues down the same trajectory.

Anyone who has watched the Jets knows Jamal makes plays all over the field. He was the only safety last year to have graded above an 80 in all facets of the game including coverage.

Personally I think he compares more to Rodney Harrison. I think Jamal will break his DB sack record when it’s all said and done. Is he Harrison? Not yet. But there’s a reasonable chance he’ll have that type of career.

Edited by SDotNova

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2 hours ago, BleedTheClock said:

Have you ever seen Polamalu or Reed play? They were ungodly.

Jamal Adams would have a very long way to go before reaching that kind of talk. That's crazy talk.

I probably could've worded my post better, but I do believe he's on that path and will ultimately join the discussion.. And yes, both were among my all time favorite players to watch.  

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Thing is no one from that class got paid yet. I'd give Jamal 16 mil per easily. If making him the highest paid safety helps him stay here fine.

 

You take him off our defense,  that defense gets much worse. Hes one of the bright spots, keep the momentum of good things by extending him. Johnson got money for being a bum, at least Adams is great and is good money to remain great. 

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Posted (edited)
On 5/21/2020 at 10:46 PM, KhanYouDigIt said:

Ngakoue for Adams.

Makes sense for both teams imo 

Jamal Adams is way more valuable than Ngakoue. 

Edited by WizeGuy

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