Who is on the "hottest" of seats going into 2020?

[winitall]

15 minutes ago, JammerHammer21 said:

Don't really disagree. Michigan has been in purgatory and worse very recently. It sucks that Harbaugh can't push them over the hump against at this point, but firing Harbaugh means telling every coaching candidate that if they can't beat OSU, they aren't going to last at Michigan, even if they are good at beating other teams. I look around CFB and ask: who the hell is doing that? Hiring PJ Fleck's gimmicky *** to coach this program that doesn't give outsiders a chance?

OSU has basically been on a planet only occupied by Alabama and Clemson. They have never been bad other than one year where they had an interim coach. They started way ahead of Michigan, and as much as Michigan has moved forward, OSU has moved forward even further from where they were. Michigan's baseline was dumpster fire, OSU's was top 5 program.

There will be a breaking point, but at this time, firing Harbaugh does not have a lot of upside and has a lot more downside. You need to hit the home run of all home runs to fire a coach whose biggest problem is that he can't beat a team of OSU's caliber.

If Michigan can't beat OSU this year and gets dunked on again, I would fire Don Brown waaaay before I would fire Harbaugh.

I don't think a lot of people realize how much of a mess Michigan was in before Harbaugh. Being stuck at "good, but not great" sucks, but Michigan has been way lower. And that sucks way more.

I also feel like it’s important to note that it isn’t just beating a team of OSUs caliber. It’s winning against a top-3 team that absolutely hates your guts the last week of the season AND with a win they are pretty much guaranteed to win the B1G and have a good chance at a playoff spot. 
 

Oh, and literally one season where the starting QB is completely healthy going into the game would be nice. 

[ramssuperbowl99]

41 minutes ago, JammerHammer21 said:

Don't really disagree. Michigan has been in purgatory and worse very recently. It sucks that Harbaugh can't push them over the hump against at this point, but firing Harbaugh means telling every coaching candidate that if they can't beat OSU, they aren't going to last at Michigan, even if they are good at beating other teams. I look around CFB and ask: who the hell is doing that? Hiring PJ Fleck's gimmicky *** to coach this program that doesn't give outsiders a chance?

@malibuspeedrace thoughts on Michigan rowing the boat?

[malibuspeedrace]

They'd hit an iceberg

 

and not be providing the nation with anymore quality cartwheels

Edited May 29, 2020 by malibuspeedrace

[candyman93]

There’s also a perception that Michigan’s players don’t take the rivalry as serious as OSU.

 

It’s been baked into OSU’s culture since Tressell gave his speech that you MUST beat Michigan no matter what.

 

I’ve never seen Harbs give off that kind of message going into the game. 
 

Not winning the 2016 game is what will be his undoing.

Edited May 29, 2020 by candyman93

[MikeT14]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2893946-jim-harbaugh-michigan-is-about-as-close-as-you-can-possibly-be-to-winning-title

[titansNvolsR#1]

Having no knowledge of their situation or contract:

Fuente
Frost
Sumlin
Mason

[MWil23]

Tom Herman hasn’t won and he’s a total DBag/culture clown. It’s definitely him.

Clay Helton is also an obvious candidate, and probably whoever Tennessee’s HC is because I’ve lost track already once again there.

[MikeT14]

6 minutes ago, titansNvolsR#1 said:

Having no knowledge of their situation or contract:

Fuente

Was waiting to see how long it would take for his name to come up. Don't disagree with it either. 

[ramssuperbowl99]

18 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Tom Herman hasn’t won and he’s a total DBag/culture clown

Wonder where he got it from.

[MWil23]

1 minute ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

Wonder where he got it from.

He could have at least gotten this part too...

[BobbyPhil1781]

15 hours ago, winitall said:

Michigan doesn't lose to every top program that they face. Excluding OSU, Michigan is 4-3 against ranked opponents during the regular season over the past 2 years. 2 of the 3 losses were against ranked teams on the road at night by a single score. The only team besides OSU to really kill Michigan over the last two years is Wisconsin last season. Michigan is in contention to be the second best B1G team every year, that's enough for most of the fan-base. They aren't going to become an annual threat to OSU and take the next big step unless the academic side is willing to make some sacrifices that OSU has and there is no indication that is going to happen *shrug*.

 

As far as @catcheryea's point about getting blown out by OSU, that's going to have to happen probably twice more for the fan-base to really turn on Harbaugh. If it happens this year, Don Brown is going to quietly be asked to consider his options. 

 

@JammerHammer21 Do you disagree with anything I've said in here?

10-14 Record against AP top-25 
2-11 against AP top-10 

I just don't think that's all great. I know you kinda cherry-picked "regular season" and excluding OSU w/ your stats and I'm guessing you did b/c bowl games can be kinda iffy at times b/c of player's choices but I feel they still need to be considered.  I would agree that's perfectly fine if you're OK w/ it but I personally would want more from a very high-profiled coach who gets pretty damn good recruits which I know a lot of schools would absolutely love to have both of those things.

[BobbyPhil1781]

4 hours ago, JammerHammer21 said:

Don't really disagree. Michigan has been in purgatory and worse very recently. It sucks that Harbaugh can't push them over the hump against at this point, but firing Harbaugh means telling every coaching candidate that if they can't beat OSU, they aren't going to last at Michigan, even if they are good at beating other teams. I look around CFB and ask: who the hell is doing that? Hiring PJ Fleck's gimmicky *** to coach this program that doesn't give outsiders a chance?

OSU has basically been on a planet only occupied by Alabama and Clemson. They have never been bad other than one year where they had an interim coach. They started way ahead of Michigan, and as much as Michigan has moved forward, OSU has moved forward even further from where they were. Michigan's baseline was dumpster fire, OSU's was top 5 program.

There will be a breaking point, but at this time, firing Harbaugh does not have a lot of upside and has a lot more downside. You need to hit the home run of all home runs to fire a coach whose biggest problem is that he can't beat a team of OSU's caliber.

If Michigan can't beat OSU this year and gets dunked on again, I would fire Don Brown waaaay before I would fire Harbaugh.

I don't think a lot of people realize how much of a mess Michigan was in before Harbaugh. Being stuck at "good, but not great" sucks, but Michigan has been way lower. And that sucks way more.

I mean, isn't beating your rival (arguably the greatest in college football) one of the things you set out to do when you commit to Michigan? As someone brought up in this thread, when people commit to OSU, they feed them that beating Michigan is imperative. I don't get that feeling from the other side.

I don't disagree w/ OSU's recruiting b/c you really can't. Some of the recent classes haven't panned out ('18) but you're 100% correct in your statement. We can't sit here and act like Michigan's classes aren't pretty damn good in their own regard though.

Rivals: 

2016: 4th
2017: 4th
2018: 24th
2019: 10th
2020: 11th

I am indifferent about what firing him would do for the program. I feel he should be getting more out of his recruits but do the recruits leave if you don't have that really high profiled guy there? I would think they do but I'm not sure.

You are right about him taking things over though and making the team more competitive. 

[BobbyPhil1781]

4 hours ago, winitall said:

Oh, and literally one season where the starting QB is completely healthy going into the game would be nice. 

It's not like OSU hasn't had that same problem recently. It's the end of the season and it's football... no one is 100%

[winitall]

18 minutes ago, JTagg7754 said:

It's not like OSU hasn't had that same problem recently. It's the end of the season and it's football... no one is 100%

There’s being banged up and there’s having your starting QB play with a broken collarbone in 2016 and being on your third-stringer in 2017. 

[JammerHammer21]

56 minutes ago, JTagg7754 said:

I mean, isn't beating your rival (arguably the greatest in college football) one of the things you set out to do when you commit to Michigan? As someone brought up in this thread, when people commit to OSU, they feed them that beating Michigan is imperative. I don't get that feeling from the other side.

I don't disagree w/ OSU's recruiting b/c you really can't. Some of the recent classes haven't panned out ('18) but you're 100% correct in your statement. We can't sit here and act like Michigan's classes aren't pretty damn good in their own regard though.

Rivals: 

2016: 4th
2017: 4th
2018: 24th
2019: 10th
2020: 11th

I am indifferent about what firing him would do for the program. I feel he should be getting more out of his recruits but do the recruits leave if you don't have that really high profiled guy there? I would think they do but I'm not sure.

You are right about him taking things over though and making the team more competitive. 

The '18 class is honestly looking better than '17.

But even then, the gulf in recruiting between the top 5 or so teams and the next tier is huge at this point. That 5th ranked 2017 class had 30 commits and was still significantly behind OSU, which finished second with 21 commits and had an average commit that was 3 points higher than Michigan's (94 vs. 91). Michigan recruits well enough to do better than they've been doing, but they're basically on that same next tier with Wisconsin and Penn State. They haven't had that lucky break that Penn State did against OSU, but Harbaugh has a winning record vs. PSU and has killed them in home meetings. Wisconsin is a 2-2 matchup.

We're a Maryland failed 2 pointer away from not even having to have this discussion, even if Michigan got killed by OSU afterwards.

Of the fanbases that have chimed in, Georgia is the only that has really had a comparable situation of being good, but not good enough where a next level could possibly be had. Kirby Smart existed. The equivalent does not for Michigan.

I'll hit a breaking point, but Michigan was an unstable mess before Harbaugh. OSU has had to replace 2 coaches in the past ~decade due to off-field scandals, and they have never even come remotely close to Michigan's lows. Firing a good coach to roll the dice is not the way Michigan's going to get past a team that does not break its stride. Find me someone who you can guarantee will do what Harbaugh can't (beat OSU), and I'll get on board if the failure continues, but I don't see any realistic options that fit the bill.

Edited May 29, 2020 by JammerHammer21