Training Camp Thread

[KingOfNewYork]

4 hours ago, Rockice_8 said:

I hope we can move Bell this year to a contender at the deadline for a 2nd or 3rd.  His contract isn't that bad with all the guaranteed money mostly gone and he can still play at a high level.  Adding another premium pick would be huge.  That would give us six picks in the top 100 which can change a turn a team around quickly if JD has a good draft.

Thing is if Bell is having a good season likely means we are too. If he isn’t then we’ll probably being doing bad so he wouldn’t fetch much in return.

[Rockice_8]

10 hours ago, KingOfNewYork said:

Thing is if Bell is having a good season likely means we are too. If he isn’t then we’ll probably being doing bad so he wouldn’t fetch much in return.

Possibly sure but our defense could take a step back without Jamal even though I did think we upgraded at CB and ILB with the addition of AW back.

He doesn't really need to have a great season to have value just needs to have a few good games really.  We could have some good offensive showings and still lose games given our difficult schedule.  By the time we are truly ready to compete Bell won't be here so getting at least a 3rd at the deadline makes sense.  I hate to take a weapon from Sam given that this year is all about him but RB is easier to replace then a WR.

Taking a pick for Bell and using it to draft another RB in the mid rounds makes so much sense for where we are.  Getting a young 1-2 punch with Perine is a good idea.

[JetsandI]

15 hours ago, KingOfNewYork said:

From what I recall Eagles had previously blocked Douglas from getting interviews around that same time. It was only after the draft that he became available. We were linked to Douglas instantly.

So far online media said the last sought for permission to interview with Joe Douglas was January 2018 when Eagles' season was much alive. None in 2019 and 2020 offseasons. However, in 2020, Howie hired Andrew Berry as an insurance in February and after the draft was concluded, there were two GM vacancies for Joe Douglas to consider.

It also suggested that Howie could not keep or block JD during last 2 off seasons because he won't reduce his power for JD.   That mean Jets still could have hired both at the same time.

 

It is trivial now since we got JD to turn Jets around for real.😍

[JetsandI]

I have been rooting for Bless Austin to be our reliable CB. Now he has to beat health issue and Quincy Wilson. Ugh!

[Rockice_8]

22 hours ago, JetsandI said:

I have been rooting for Bless Austin to be our reliable CB. Now he has to beat health issue and Quincy Wilson. Ugh!

What is the health issue, covid?  I tried to search it quickly and nothing came up.

[doumeyer]

It sure looks like a lot of us are losing the enthusiasm for the upcoming season. The only thing I am looking forward  to is how well Sam Daronld, will do with a new offensive line & his new receivers. I really think out defensive will not be very good at all. Douglas did all he could in his first off season to improve the Jets, for the first time in years I think next years draft after we get one more O Lineman, and than it will be about the defensive, this year we won't have one star on defensive, unless last years #1 pick turns into another Randy White, Bob Lilly or Alan Page, but don't hold your breath, remember Leo Williams??

[Bianconero]

35 minutes ago, doumeyer said:

It sure looks like a lot of us are losing the enthusiasm for the upcoming season. The only thing I am looking forward  to is how well Sam Daronld, will do with a new offensive line & his new receivers. I really think out defensive will not be very good at all. Douglas did all he could in his first off season to improve the Jets, for the first time in years I think next years draft after we get one more O Lineman, and than it will be about the defensive, this year we won't have one star on defensive, unless last years #1 pick turns into another Randy White, Bob Lilly or Alan Page, but don't hold your breath, remember Leo Williams??

I agree with you - I think we were all on Cloud 9 after the amazing draft...and to some extent we should be, but losing your best two players on your roster in the span of a week is like a dagger in the thigh

[GangGreen420]

I honestly couldn’t care less about the performance of the defense. All I want to know is if Darnold is the guy and if Gase is the guy to develop him. Nothing else really matters in the long run.

[Bobby816]

This year is all about the offense to be honest. Of course the defense needs to try and hold their own. But the offense is what has been lacking for as long as I can remember nearly.

 

Darnold is in a crucial turning point of his career. While the OL isn't finished and the weapons lack. He still has to show he's a good starting QB this season. No excuses anymore.

Bell, Gore and Perine is a great group with great depth. This position I'm not worried about at all this season. But the future is an issue here. Bell is very cuttable after this season and Gore obviously isn't a long term answer. And not sure Perine will even get any touches really if the 2 guys ahead of him are healthy. At least not enough to know if he can be the main RB for 2021.

WR is the group that has a ton of potential. But as of now thats all it has. Outside of Crowder its a ton of question marks. Is Perriman the guy who was a 1st rounder and played great the last 1/3 of the season last year? Or is he the guy who's been injured and very unreliable most of his career. Mims as a rookie. Can he grasp the playbook and get that trust in Same in a short time frame. Can Doctson being healthy and a change of scenery reignite his career? Our starting 4 WRs consist of a very good slot WR and 3 guys with a lot of potential.

TE is the x factor for us in weapons. Herndon as a rookie looked very good once starting and was really becoming a main target for Darnold. But not playing at all last year (played barely any time in 1 game I believe) might have slowed down that relationship. And who knows what Herndon post injury and suspension will look like. Griffin was a breath of fresh air for us as well last year. Making for some possible nice 2 TE sets where defenses cant leave one open being they both can catch very well.

OL is where we need the most work done. We should have 4 new starters here. How will the gel, learn the playbook, communicate with each other, etc? It's going to be hard to get on the same page fast for these guys. But there's talent there. So hopefully its a group that can gel as they take more snaps. But Sam has to have time and the run game will have to help up Sam and the WRs. 

 

Why I'm not worried about the defense is this.....

Our DL is among the best in the NFL. We know that is nearly as close to a fact as it gets with our units.

At LB Avery and Peanut is still a nice starting LB group. And there's depth behind that as well. Its a better starting group than what Williams had last year with Mosely and Williamson out all year.

Edge is a question mark. But there is stuff to look forward to. We brought back Jenkins on a steal deal. He might be on the brink of getting double digit sacks. Zuniga has tools. Can he stay healthy? But he has skill to get to the QB and can be a moving chess piece. The group is actually better than last years. But that's not saying much.

CB I feel the same way about. Group has a lot of potential... but the talent right away might take some time. Desir can start as our CB 1. Can Austin become more consistent to be a lock CB 2? We will have to see. He looks very good at times, but then has some mental mistakes. He has to be more consistent. Poole is among the best slot CBs in the game. Nothing to worry about there. Then the depth and potential after that is great. But as of now its just potential. Wilson and Hall have a lot physically to love. But they have to show it.

S on paper we became weaker. And I wont argue that after trading Jamal. But McDougald is no slouch. This allows Maye to move to his natural spot as well at SS. So I think we will see a better Maye. He wont be Jamal. But I think we will see him flying around the field making plays. McDougald can play that more ballhawk role and make tackles. The x factor here is Davis. Who I think will play as a chess piece for us. Lining up at S and CB at times. So the group is still a very good group. We now have 3 very good Ss. So I think it will still be a good group.

Furthermore I trust Williams to get the best out of this group. That's why I'm not that worried about the defense.

 

[xrade]

29 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

Darnold is in a crucial turning point of his career. While the OL isn't finished and the weapons lack. He still has to show he's a good starting QB this season. No excuses anymore

I disagree on the turning point thing, but this is a crucial year.  I am not sure when it is customary to pick up the 5th year option, but if it is after this season, yes it is crucial.  My concerns, which may differ from yours, is that I still am not sure about the OL giving him reasonable time to find his receivers, especially on deep routes.  On paper they are better, but we shall see.  As for his weapons, are we really a whole lot better?   Gase runs a complicated offense and there are a lot of new players that need to get up to speed.  If Gase is willing to simplify to O, at least for the first half of the season, then we may see better results from Sam.  Lastly, if Williams is unable to repeat his magic with the backend of the D, we may need to pass a lot more to get back into games.

While you say there are no excuses, I see plenty.  I still believe Sam will be a franchise QB, it is just unfortunate that Mac may have completely screwed any chance of the Jets seeing that franchise greatness.

[Bobby816]

2 minutes ago, xrade said:

I disagree on the turning point thing, but this is a crucial year.  I am not sure when it is customary to pick up the 5th year option, but if it is after this season, yes it is crucial.  My concerns, which may differ from yours, is that I still am not sure about the OL giving him reasonable time to find his receivers, especially on deep routes.  On paper they are better, but we shall see.  As for his weapons, are we really a whole lot better?   Gase runs a complicated offense and there are a lot of new players that need to get up to speed.  If Gase is willing to simplify to O, at least for the first half of the season, then we may see better results from Sam.  Lastly, if Williams is unable to repeat his magic with the backend of the D, we may need to pass a lot more to get back into games.

While you say there are no excuses, I see plenty.  I still believe Sam will be a franchise QB, it is just unfortunate that Mac may have completely screwed any chance of the Jets seeing that franchise greatness.

I think JD did what he could. Their was no one in FA at WR that could have helped us big at WR. Perriman was arguably the best guy out there and he got him. Mims is a highly talented WR that had no business slipping as far as he did. IMO he got a 1st Rounder late in the 2nd. Yes these guys have to prove themselves in a Jets jersey. But the talent is there. Fact is... these 2 guys will be starters for us more than likely, so they will get their chance.

 

On the OL what more could JD have done? Seriously? He pretty much completely remade the OL. Giving us 2 new starting OTs in Becton and Fant. And even if you don't like Fant, we drafted a talented OT in Clark and also have Edoga still who has potential as well. At G we retained Lewis who with better OT and C play should look better. At C we got a very talented McGovern who should anchor the middle of the OL for several years and is a proven guy. And GVR is a vet G that produces. Isn't going to be great, but also wont be a weakness. I think the turnover JD did in 1 year is remarkable there.

 

Where I will agree with you is that these groups aren't groups that gel fast. The WR/QB relationship has to be built over time. WRs getting on the same page as the QB. What does help is neither Mims or Perriman have the WR diva ego to harness that. They seems to be guys that want to just produce and have that chip on their shoulder. They IMO will listen and do whats asked of them from Gase and Darnold.

The OL is the harder position. Bc it relies a lot on communication. And not playing with each other slows that process down. I do think being at home and all has made these guys learn the playbook possibly faster as well. So learning the plays wont be an issue. It's the communication. But thats where a vet at C like McGovern helps. As well as Darnold who seems like a very mature young QB in year 2 in this system. These 2 can really help the whole OL know where to go pre snap. I have my questions about Fant and Lewis. But they do fit the mold of what we want to do. Athletic OLineman that allow us to spread defenses out. Making the edge rushers further out wide as well as natural gaps in the interior for the running game. 

[xrade]

I do not blame JD in the slightest.  I believe he had one of the best off-seasons any Jet GM has had in recent memory.  As you stated, the OL needs to gel and aside from McGovern, we will have a rookie OT, an average at best OT (Fant), two OG's (Lewis and GVR) that are OK but nothing to write home about.  Like I said, on paper it is an upgrade to last year but my local HS OL would also be an upgrade over last year.  I just think it is asking a lot for them to come in and provide solid pass protection.  As the season wears on, I would expect them to get better but to discount the OL as an excuse for Sam at this juncture is not something I agree with.  I hope you are right and I am wrong.

The WR is not really better.  Perriman is, at best, a wash for losing Robby.  Mims is a rookie coming from Baylor.  They will have their work cut out for them just to learn the playbook and calls.  I would expect both will start slow and, hopefully, progress as the season goes on.  As I said before, if we have to get into shootouts, especially early in the season, it may not work out well for the Jets.  If Gase was smart, big if, he will rely on his running game and two TE sets early in the season.  Keep it simple for the X and Y.

All this leads me to believe the OL and WR will not help Sam get to the next level in the beginning of the season.  How long it takes is the real question and what does Sam look like then.  Personally, I think Sam will take another baby step this year, maybe by limiting his TO's or audible as he reads the D at the LOS.  I do not expect a huge step.  That step I would expect during the 2021 season. 

[Bianconero]

 

[JetsandI]

Just now, Bianconero said:

 

you beat me.. stupid login. lol.    Anyway, it would increase Mims' play time if he stays.

[JetsandI]

On 8/5/2020 at 8:10 AM, Rockice_8 said:

What is the health issue, covid?  I tried to search it quickly and nothing came up.

Physical, not illness.  apologies.