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RandyMossIsBoss

Carson Wentz and the QB Position

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I think we need a thread dedicated to what is looking like could be a very real problem. Within a GDT I know many are already "over" Carson but we are all emotional in the GDT. So several hours, and hopefully a night's rest for those reading this in the morning, removed from the trauma, what are people's thoughts on Carson? Obviously he is playing like garbage, worst stretch since his rookie year, and has led us to losing 2 games we'd surely have won with even a league average QB. A few questions to get the ball rolling:

 

1. On this 1-10 scale of 1-10, where are you at with Carson right now?

  • 1= I want him BENCHED, he is done, never want to see him start another game for us. Flaws have only gotten worse, no improvements, there is no reason to play him other than sunken cost fallacy.
  • 6= Faith shaken, but no use in benching him considering circumstances. Change external factors and hope for improved Carson in 2021, if no changes, then it's time for Hurts.
  • 10= I have total faith in Carson as our franchise QB who will be with us a long time. This is just a slump, many QBs have gone through them. 

 

2. Under what circumstances, if any, would you want to see healthy Carson benched in favor of Hurts in 2020? (assuming you're not already there)

 

3. What would you like to see happen going forward at QB/with Carson (within what you would consider realm of possibility)?

 

4. If you're thinking Carson is the guy until at least 2021, what do you think is the most important change that needs to be made heading into 2021 for his sake? 

 

5. If you are over Carson, under what circumstances would you welcome taking a QB in 2021 draft? Would you need to see Hurts play, and be unimpressed, or would you still want to go QB even if we never see Hurts or he plays solid? (Obviously if he plays great, there is little question what to do)

 

Wentz's contract has an "out" after 2021 where we would only eat up $24M in dead cap for cutting/trading him. 

Hurts is under contract through 2023, and becomes a UFA after (no option like most QBs have since he was 2nd rounder).

Trevor Lawrence, Justin Fields and Trey Lance are the early big 3 QBs of the 2021 class. The winless Jets, Texans and Bengals have harder schedules than us going forward. The winless Broncos, Falcons, Vikings and Giants have easier schedules than us going forward. Bolded could very well be in market for QB come draft day. Unlikely we would be in position for Lawrence, all jokes aside but that tie really did take us out of the #1 pick unless we only win 1 game in all likelihood, but we could be in range of Fields or Lance. 

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1. On this 1-10 scale of 1-10, where are you at with Carson right now?

I'm at a 6.5 I would say, and each one of these LOL outings drops it by .2 or so. Maybe I am stubborn, but I put a lot of stock in the fact that for 3 seasons I saw a franchise-caliber QB out there, with very high highs, so it will take a considerable amount more than 3 games to get me off the wagon. Of course seeing regression in his game, and a 5th year QB ever play this poorly, is concerning no matter the spin. I am just not that close to actually giving up. I guess I am viewing it as a slump and perfect storm, Carson is playing bad, his coaches are coaching bad, and his teammates are playing bad. The result is the worst passer rating in the NFL. Don't get me wrong, this is on Carson much more than anything/one else, but I am just pointing out that I don't think he's getting any favors which is how we've winded up where we are, asking this question.

 

2. Under what circumstances, if any, would you want to see healthy Carson benched in favor of Hurts in 2020? (assuming you're not already there)

None. I don't think there is any benefit to Hurts being given the starting job in 2020. If we were to move on from Carson, the explanation for his failure here would likely be permanently shaken confidence, or something of that nature, yes? Well in that case, why would we risk damaging the confidence of Hurts by throwing him into a dumpster fire? The upside is he gets experience and it we find out what we have in him sooner rather than later, but the 4 years he is under contract is plenty to me that we can afford redshirting a prospect who was largely considered something of a "project" to begin with. Furthermore, there is no going back after you bench Carson, and he has a leash from me that extends into 2021.

 

3. What would you like to see happen going forward at QB/with Carson (within what you would consider realm of possibility)?

The turnovers need to be cut down. He should have 8 INTs on the year in all honesty, and none are the fault of receivers. They are flat out inaccurate throws and puzzling decisions. Don't forget the 3 fumbles too. You cannot win in this league with TOs, and these INTs Wentz is throwing are just mind boggling. The 2nd Rams INT is the only 1 I can attribute to a sense of desperation and hero ball, and a bit of miscommunication maybe, but the rest were in fairly "calm" situations where he just went and completely screwed us. The missed deep throws I can live with, they stick in your mind and they hurt, but Wentz has never been particularly accurate (60% in his 2017 season), he never will be. Missing your targets in situations where it's them or nobody (miss to Sanders today) don't bug me, you'll see even the best QBs miss deep shots (granted, usually not THAT easy). What you can't do is underthrow or misplace down field throws (INT today targeted at Ertz). If he stays afraid of throwing to his WRs due to no trust, and a little skiddish in the pocket, that's unfortunate but I can acknowledge the awful situation he has once again found himself in and accept why it's happening. What I can't/won't accept is these INTs, they're inexcusable. MUST STOP. The accuracy is probably the biggest culprit, even over the decision making. He's just not on target with throws, even screens. Mechanics causing the inaccuracy? Not sure, but I don't think a QB can lose such a drastic degree of ball placement in such a short period of time, so I'm still believing it is just a "slump."

 

4. If you're thinking Carson is the guy until at least 2021, what do you think is the most important change that needs to be made heading into 2021 for his sake? 

Playcalling/scheme. As much as WR talent needs to be improved, if we want to get the best out of Carson, we need to stop with this methodical west coast scheme that keeps Wentz in the pocket. Play to his damn strengths: Arm strength, mobility, size. He's never going to be that QB who goes 25/32, 300 yards, 3 TDs, 0 INTs, you can give him the cleanest pockets in the world, it won't happen. He's always liable to miss some gimme throws, which kill a possession in this WC scheme predicated on keeping the down and distance manageable. He's going to be a guy who chains together big plays throughout the game. Get him running, get him outside the pocket, get him taking shots downfield. I get that we're a bit hamstrung by our personnel at the moment, not to mention no scheme can operate with a QB who is missing as many easy throws as Carson is, but LIS, I am of the belief that we will see the accuracy pretty quickly regress towards the mean (which isn't great, but you can certainly operate an offense with). 

 

5. If you are over Carson, under what circumstances would you welcome taking a QB in 2021 draft? Would you need to see Hurts play, and be unimpressed, or would you still want to go QB even if we never see Hurts or he plays solid? (Obviously if he plays great, there is little question what to do)

I'm not over Carson, but I'll answer this in the possible situation where Hurts does make an appearance at end of year (at which point I'd think Wentz time in Philly is done). If we were in a position to take Lawrence, Hurts must not have played great, or great for a long period, so you take Lawrence with no hesitation in this unlikely scenario. Passing on a generational QB prospect is not forgivable, figure out what to do with Hurts after. In the more likely scenario where we are at 7 or 8 and perhaps Lance is there, well that would depend to me on coaching. If a new or overhauled staff is in, I would like them to pick their own QB to groom, but otherwise, if Hurts managed not to be a disaster, I would opt for shorting up one of the many holes on this team and giving Hurts the reigns in 2021, and then revisiting QB position at the 2022 draft. Of course, ideally for me, Wentz rides out the season and this isn't a discussion.

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Im not here to troll. I am not here trash anyone. But  I just read a tweet on the Cowboys forum that Wentz has like 90 something turnovers in 60 games.

Thats a problem. That seems excessive. 

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1. On this 1-10 scale of 1-10, where are you at withCarson right now?
 

I am at around a 4. I have been a massive Carson Wentz fan since we drafted him. I have had total faith in him since his first start vs the Browns and have talked about how good he is many times on this board. That said, he is playing like trash, and it doesn’t make sense. The reason I am so worried about him being unable to turn it around is his level of play is inexcusable. He isn’t hurt, his talent is better than it was last year, and his accuracy on easy throws is just garbage. I want him to succeed, but I have major doubts he can ever play well again with the Eagles. 
 

 

2. Under what circumstances, if any, would you want to see healthy Carson benched in favor of Hurts in 2020?(assuming you're not already there)
 

If we go 0-5-1 like I expect us too, Hurts should see the field.  At that point we have to start exploring our options at every position, not just QB. 
 

 

3. What would you like to see happen going forward at QB/with Carson (within what you would consider realm of possibility)?

Dump Carson ASAP. Get Lawrence, Lance, or Fields. This of course assuming we don’t turn this year around. 
 

 

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5 I guess. I am real shook. But when push comes to shove, I still think he is the guy. It’s getting harder to back that up with any logical argument. 
 

I just want 2017 Wentz back. Is that too much to ask? 

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I think Benjamin Solak made a good point on the BGN post game podcast yesterday. When have we ever seen a QB in his late 20's just lose his accuracy out of no where?

So is this a permanent thing? Can it be corrected? There is no real precedent to say one way or the other.

Does he have the yips and is completely done? Maybe.

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1 hour ago, ninjapirate said:

I think Benjamin Solak made a good point on the BGN post game podcast yesterday. When have we ever seen a QB in his late 20's just lose his accuracy out of no where?

So is this a permanent thing? Can it be corrected? There is no real precedent to say one way or the other.

Does he have the yips and is completely done? Maybe.

His last injury was a right knock to the head. Maybe he’ll never be back. I do recall a ton ish of reports in training camp of INTs. 

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46 minutes ago, Jroc04 said:

His last injury was a right knock to the head. Maybe he’ll never be back. I do recall a ton ish of reports in training camp of INTs. 

Seen a lot of stuff of how wonky his footwork and placement is. I wonder if he just worked all offseason on his own with no corrective measures and f’ed himself up. 
 

It’s just too dramatic of a difference that there has to be something up.

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6/10 IMO. I have no idea what's happening with Wentz. He isn't injured as far as we know. He looks healthy. Is it all mental? I get that we're still trotting out below average WRs but his accuracy has been horrendous. 

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Seen some mention how this is reminiscent of Luck’s 2015. Now we found out in hindsight Luck was fighting injury all year, and given what he went on to do, that is surely what was happening.

 

Thing is, even if we learn Carson is fighting some injury, that won’t really make me feel any better since it’d mean he has a serious injury for 3rd time in 4 years.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Phire said:

6/10 IMO. I have no idea what's happening with Wentz. He isn't injured as far as we know. He looks healthy. Is it all mental? I get that we're still trotting out below average WRs but his accuracy has been horrendous. 

Wow Wentz has been playing so bad that he brought Phire back from the dead 

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31 minutes ago, EaglesPeteC said:

Wow Wentz has been playing so bad that he brought Phire back from the dead 

Thought I didn't really care after we won the Super Bowl but what the actual hell are we watching?

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13 minutes ago, Phire said:

Thought I didn't really care after we won the Super Bowl but what the actual hell are we watching?

It’s 2020 who the hell knows.

 

consequently, how is it going for you these days?

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