Fire Pace and Nagy

[soulman]

12 hours ago, WindyCity said:

Or  he just chose not to.

Both you and Mike make a good point.  I didn't tune in to the game until well into the 4th Q so perhaps I got the wrong idea and of course Nagy always talks a good game when it comes to throwing downfield but then fails to do it.

He was hired to create a 21st century higher scoring offense but at each step along the way, and no matter whose behind center, he's failed to do it.  When I look at stats and see the average YPC of our receivers I'm dumbfounded.

[soulman]

13 hours ago, dll2000 said:

Look at this way.  We aren't the Texans.  

I say that same thing to people around here nearly every day.  Thank God we aren't Texans.  🤣

[soulman]

13 hours ago, dll2000 said:

I was watching broadcast so couldn't see all 22, but from what I understand Rams were keeping safeties deep.

You still have to challenge them from time to time.

Protection was decent for most of game.   I watched a bunch of other games and many other QBs were under more duress.

In MN vs. Cinn both QBs were under far more duress than Dalton.  

Yeah you do.  If they're playing a two deep Tampa Two like Lovie made his bones with then there are all kinds of holes in that zone around 15 yards down field to exploit.  Hell, both Favre and Rodger would eat us alive with those.

If we're beyond the point of no return with anything it should be with Nagy.  His game planning and play calling suck and once again he's allowed his team to show up for an opener on national TV under prepared and unmotivated to win.

IMHO this will not change 'til Nagy's gone.  He simply can't get past his own mediocrity as a HC.

[Sugashane]

22 minutes ago, soulman said:

I say that same thing to people around here nearly every day.  Thank God we aren't Texans.  🤣

Sad part is they're leading their division right now. Between theirs and the NFC North the Texans are the only winning team. 😂

[soulman]

16 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

Sad part is they're leading their division right now. Between theirs and the NFC North the Texans are the only winning team. 😂

Yeah but I was talking more about the locale than the football team.

Some good friends of mine, neighbors in my building actually, from my hometown of Oak Lawn and also Bears fans just moved to Austin.  Austin is a great city that just happens to have the misfortune of being located in Texas.  I held a going away party for them and gave them a rifle rack for their SUV so they can fit in more quickly.  🤣

As you can probably tell from my post Texans are not all that well thought of hereabouts.  We have more than enough of our own bull**** here and don't need any of theirs added to it.

[Madmike90]

6 hours ago, WindyCity said:

He hasn’t been good for 17 games and counting. His tackling is beyond pathetic and he doesn’t make plays on the ball anymore.

He makes 15/season. I am done with excuses.

I still don't feel he is being used right...like I have said there is no position in football that can be made or broken by scheme and the chances we have made since Fangio have clearly had a negative effect on a few players...none more so than Jackson...Desai was suppose to get us away from the vanilla scheme of Pagano but we saw no evidence of it on Sunday...we need to get back to being more attacking to get the best out of guys like Jackson & Mack for that matter.

[JAF-N72EX]

12 hours ago, abstract_thought said:

Missing on draft picks

It's absolutely amazing to me that people still use this false narrative.

[soulman]

27 minutes ago, JAF-N72EX said:

It's absolutely amazing to me that people still use this false narrative.

Well it's not totally false.  Pace has made some good picks but too few have become difference makers and it would be easier to credit the good one if we didn't have a need to somehow ignore the reaches and missteps along the way.  IMHO we are what we are because he's missed too often with premium picks and traded others away.

[Sugashane]

21 minutes ago, soulman said:

Well it's not totally false.  Pace has made some good picks but too few have become difference makers and it would be easier to credit the good one if we didn't have a need to somehow ignore the reaches and missteps along the way.  IMHO we are what we are because he's missed too often with premium picks and traded others away.

I think had it been "missing with top picks" there would have been little argument.  Pace has been good in the middle rounds, but crap in the top two. 

[soulman]

6 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

I think had it been "missing with top picks" there would have been little argument.  Pace has been good in the middle rounds, but crap in the top two. 

If you trade away top picks in exchange for a single impact player you typically end up with fewer impact players which is what we see now.  It's not impossible to find impact players in the mid and late round but they have to be developed through better coaching that can identify their strengths and then use those strengths to the teams advantage.  We fail miserably at that part.

When I look at the game stats and see a prize late round pick like Mooney averaging just 5.2 YPC on his 5 catches and Dalton never attempting a pass of more than 16 yards downfield I gotta say WTF is wrong with this picture.  Marquise Goodwin was the only WR to average more than 10 YPC on his 4 receptions.  Byrd averaged 6.3 YPC and ARob 5.8 YPC. 

Eighteen catches by WR gained all of 125 yards/6.9 YPC.  Great use of speed and talent eh? 

Hell, David Montgomery had almost that much total offense himself.

Even when Nagy gets the players he wants he can't use them effectively enough.

[Madmike90]

21 minutes ago, soulman said:

If you trade away top picks in exchange for a single impact player you typically end up with fewer impact players which is what we see now.  It's not impossible to find impact players in the mid and late round but they have to be developed through better coaching that can identify their strengths and then use those strengths to the teams advantage.  We fail miserably at that part.

When I look at the game stats and see a prize late round pick like Mooney averaging just 5.2 YPC on his 5 catches and Dalton never attempting a pass of more than 16 yards downfield I gotta say WTF is wrong with this picture.  Marquise Goodwin was the only WR to average more than 10 YPC on his 4 receptions.  Byrd averaged 6.3 YPC and ARob 5.8 YPC. 

Eighteen catches by WR gained all of 125 yards/6.9 YPC.  Great use of speed and talent eh? 

Hell, David Montgomery had almost that much total offense himself.

Even when Nagy gets the players he wants he can't use them effectively enough.

I am very much so on board with the idea that Nagy's scheme and not the player's talent is holding the offence back at this point.

[Sugashane]

13 minutes ago, soulman said:

If you trade away top picks in exchange for a single impact player you typically end up with fewer impact players which is what we see now.  It's not impossible to find impact players in the mid and late round but they have to be developed through better coaching that can identify their strengths and then use those strengths to the teams advantage.  We fail miserably at that part.

When I look at the game stats and see a prize late round pick like Mooney averaging just 5.2 YPC on his 5 catches and Dalton never attempting a pass of more than 16 yards downfield I gotta say WTF is wrong with this picture.  Marquise Goodwin was the only WR to average more than 10 YPC on his 4 receptions.  Byrd averaged 6.3 YPC and ARob 5.8 YPC. 

Eighteen catches by WR gained all of 125 yards/6.9 YPC.  Great use of speed and talent eh? 

Hell, David Montgomery had almost that much total offense himself.

Even when Nagy gets the players he wants he can't use them effectively enough.

I'm fine with trading up, but when you invest more into a player you have stated that this player is someone who you are sure is going to be successful for you. Had Tru been good, Miller developed like he looked like he was poised to after his rookie year, had Floyd been the EDGE he was drafted to be, these would have been great moves. Pace just missed and deserves flack for failing on his moves. Monty was definitely worth the move up, though when I say top pick I generally mean rounds one and two so he may not count.

Nagy had one great stretch of production in his first year vs bad defenses and I feel like that is what Pace is hoping to see from him again. It won't, Nagy needs to take the John Harbaugh approach and hope Lazor can save his job. He just isn't it, he can't lead an offense or develop talent there. While being heralded as an offensive whiz the guy has barely outperformed Loggains' offenses the last two years while having significantly more talent at his disposal. It's pathetic.

[WindyCity]

Pace's draft issues

-He does not draft may elite players, true difference makers.

-He trades away picks too often and many times the moves have not worked out which makes the miss hurt even more.

-He never has enough picks, which leaves us needing to extend ourselves in free agency.

[soulman]

1 minute ago, Madmike90 said:

I am very much so on board with the idea that Nagy's scheme and not the player's talent is holding the offence back at this point.

Ya think?  LOLOL

My issue with all of this is simple.  Now into his 4th season and also with his 4th starting vet QB Matt Nagy's offensive game plans and play calling routinely fail to even put 20 points on the board.  Fields probably can but starting him doesn't fit with "The Plan".  Pretty stupid eh?

Ya can't keep hiring and firing pilots for a plane that simply can't fly.  Nagy is long on paper schemes and game plans his team either can't execute or they simply don't work against better defenses and he no longer has an Andy Reid to lean on to bail him out.  He's not a good HC.

[soulman]

7 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

I'm fine with trading up, but when you invest more into a player you have stated that this player is someone who you are sure is going to be successful for you. Had Tru been good, Miller developed like he looked like he was poised to after his rookie year, had Floyd been the EDGE he was drafted to be, these would have been great moves. Pace just missed and deserves flack for failing on his moves. Monty was definitely worth the move up, though when I say top pick I generally mean rounds one and two so he may not count.

Nagy had one great stretch of production in his first year vs bad defenses and I feel like that is what Pace is hoping to see from him again. It won't, Nagy needs to take the John Harbaugh approach and hope Lazor can save his job. He just isn't it, he can't lead an offense or develop talent there. While being heralded as an offensive whiz the guy has barely outperformed Loggains' offenses the last two years while having significantly more talent at his disposal. It's pathetic.

Agreed.  I believe Mitch is a better QB that he could ever show under Nagy because instead of building around Mitch's strengths Nagy insisted he do it his way and his way played to all of Mitch's weaknesses.....every single one.

Miller was another high draft pick who never fit a system that required him to run more precise routes vs simply finding ways to get open and make a catch.  I think he also resented being used as a #3 Slot Receiver but you know what.  Put him with Rodger in GB where he could play like Rodgers used Randall Cobb in his prime and he'd come back to haunt us.

Both were Pace picks who were poor fits for Nagy's schemes and his way of doing things.

Floyd was never a top edge rusher in college but had we used him strictly for that he was probably capable of doing more than he did.  LA found some use for him as a pass rusher. Our other option might have been to shift him to ILB where like Urlacher he may have been more effective in pass coverage and as blitzing LB but we failed to ever try that because God dammit we drafted him to be an OLB/Edge Rusher even when he was initially ill suited to the role.

As for Nagy the pure fact is he's not an offensive whizz.  He looked good when he was an acolyte of Andy Reid with a team built around Reid schemes and his success with them. Here he lacked that kind of talent or an ability to be flexible enough to use what he had to his best ability.  He's too insecure to do that which is also why he insists on calling plays even when Lazor proved to have a better handle on it last year.  IMHO that embarrassed him so it had to stop.