2 more Titans test positive for covid - possible forfeit

[August4th]

6 minutes ago, Ty21 said:

This season’s gonna end up in a bubble 

have the players and other personal stay at local hotels or their TC site(if its available) for the rest of the season. might have to cut the season short, because I'm not sure they will agree to do that for the amount of games that are left.

[iknowcool]

28 minutes ago, warfelg said:

The NFL didn't make them do anything.  The Titans could have chose to wait to travel.  They chose not to.

The game was at 1pm on Sunday.  If they don’t travel on Saturday, then when would you have had them travel?

It doesn't really matter what the answer to that is.  Either way they would have had to travel within 24 hours of the positive test because they were scheduled to play a game.  Not sure why we keep having to jump through all these hoops to defend the NFL.  Their actions have told us that they know they messed up.  That they should have pushed the game back, did more contact tracing, etc.  Because they have done that in every situation since.

But somehow I am to believe that a much smaller gathering of players, albeit not allowed and shouldn't have happened, contributed more to an outbreak than them traveling and playing a game.  

It is not a coincidence that the 2 teams who had to travel shortly after positive tests are the 2 teams struggling to go an entire week clear of COVID cases.  

Edited October 11, 2020 by iknowcool

[August4th]

 

[SteelKing728]

Are they playing or not?

[warfelg]

Just now, iknowcool said:

The game was at 1pm on Sunday.  If they don’t travel on Saturday, then when would you have had them travel?

It's a 2 hour flight.  I know it's not optimal, but fly up morning of like the Pats did (compared to 5 hours from Boston to Kansas City).  Why not take a second plane the way the Patriots did?  Put players that came in close contact with the person that tested positive on the second plane.  

[iknowcool]

19 minutes ago, warfelg said:

It's a 2 hour flight.  I know it's not optimal, but fly up morning of like the Pats did (compared to 5 hours from Boston to Kansas City).  Why not take a second plane the way the Patriots did?  Put players that came in close contact with the person that tested positive on the second plane.  

But what difference does that make (in reference to traveling on Sunday, not having a second plane which I agree should be the protocol going forward)?  It is still a 24 hour window.  I admit I should have made that more clear, but that window is more of what I was referring to more than Saturday itself.  

The game shouldn't have been played.  Titans shouldn't have had to travel Saturday or Sunday.  It was a foolish decision by the NFL, which they have admitted to through their actions. 

And I'm not even saying that decision alone played a role in the outbreak.  I don't know how much it would have changed things, only that it is what should have happened.  But nobody knows everything.  The NFL isn't even finished with their investigation.  We don't know all the players who were at the workout, we don't know if any players who were there had COVID or got COVID.  This coach who just tested positive, we don't know how he got it, we don't know when he got it, the facilities have been closed for a hot minute so it is unlikely the Titans "irresponsibility" played a role.  

Any team that has to travel shortly (1 to 2 days) after a positive case is likely going to struggle going a week clear of cases.  We are seeing that with the Titans and Patriots.  It will happen to any team put into the same situation.  As Byard said, it's a pandemic.  It isn't like you have to go out of your way to get it.  All it takes is one player who hasn't gotten that positive test yet, not like these players have to wear masks on the sideline.

Edited October 11, 2020 by iknowcool

[diamondbull424]

1 hour ago, iknowcool said:

His point is that it is ridiculous to blame a team for having a virus spread during a pandemic.  

The NFL has made that the narrative though.  That the Titans HAD to have done something wrong for it to happen.  We don’t even know if that player work-out led to any spread or if anyone who attended got it, so while stupid, we don’t know if it even played a role.  

And now the Patriots are going through the same thing, which was clear as day gonna happen.  And they probably had an even better chance at containing the spread than the Titans given NFL didn’t make then A) travel on the same day and B) travel on the same plane.  Yet nobody is saying the Patriots must have clearly done something wrong. 

You’re arguing a logical fallacy. The NFL is blaming and will likely punish the Titans for breaking its protocols that they had in place. They aren’t blaming them FOR COVID-19 spreading throughout the team. They are blaming them to the rate as to its spread throughout the team after breaking protocol on multiple days.

Whats more the NFL has all the info, so if they WERE to blame the Titans outbreak on breaking those protocols, they could conclusively make such a statement as they would be able to investigate with officials at each “ Faux practice” location to determine which players were at each practice and determine if any of those players/coaches contracted the virus.

So to conclude, you're argument has two wide chasms here:

1. The NFL has the same level of information that we the fans have with regard to the Titans outbreak. Thus questioning their ability to determine blame for additional cases to such a degree.

2. That the NFL is blaming the Titans for Covid-19 vs blaming them for breaking its protocols over multiple instances.

So again to conclude, just because PARTS of your argument may hold validity (the NFL should have pushed back the game and possibly contributed to additional spread due to their lack of preparation), Doesn’t somehow remove the Titans from the massive amount of consequence they should face from this situation.

[warfelg]

@iknowcool It's not that I disagree with what you are saying, but waiting 24 hours could have meant getting the POC test Sunday morning rather than Saturday, and maybe someone else comes up positive, given the PS player brought in was positie too.

And I disagree with the 'irresponsibility' comment you've made.  If the first week was all that was missed then I would say maybe hard to pinpoint it on something on that.  But when tests were rolling in that long after the initial test, then there's something more.

As I type this @diamondbull424 hit the nail on the head of my point.  

[iknowcool]

2 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

You’re arguing a logical fallacy. The NFL is blaming and will likely punish the Titans for breaking its protocols that they had in place. They aren’t blaming them FOR COVID-19 spreading throughout the team. They are blaming them to the rate as to its spread throughout the team after breaking protocol on multiple days.

Whats more the NFL has all the info, so if they WERE to blame the Titans outbreak on breaking those protocols, they could conclusively make such a statement as they would be able to investigate with officials at each “ Faux practice” location to determine which players were at each practice and determine if any of those players/coaches contracted the virus.

So to conclude, you're argument has two wide chasms here:

1. The NFL has the same level of information that we the fans have with regard to the Titans outbreak. Thus questioning their ability to determine blame for additional cases to such a degree.

2. That the NFL is blaming the Titans for Covid-19 vs blaming them for breaking its protocols over multiple instances.

So again to conclude, just because PARTS of your argument may hold validity (the NFL should have pushed back the game and possibly contributed to additional spread due to their lack of preparation), Doesn’t somehow remove the Titans from the massive amount of consequence they should face from this situation.

When have I suggested that we have the same information as the NFL?  I said in a couple of posts above:

And I'm not even saying that decision alone played a role in the outbreak.  I don't know how much it would have changed things, only that it is what should have happened.  But nobody knows everything.  The NFL isn't even finished with their investigation.  

I acknowledge that the NFL is not finished with their investigation and they have information that we don't know about yet.

But I am not talking to the NFL.  I am talking to fans.  I think it is absolutely appropriate to question people's ability to determine blame in a situation they don't know anything about.  I am not pretending to know and I have not said the Titans didn't do anything wrong.  I just disagree with everyone jumping to the conclusion that they HAD to have done something wrong during a pandemic for a virus to spread.

I also disagree that this isn't about COVID-19 spreading.  The Raiders held a charity event with a bunch of players not wearing masks.  And there is a reason they will not get anywhere near the same punishment as the Titans.  It didn't lead to a spread, even though it was likely as irresponsible and reckless as anything the Titans have done.  

[iknowcool]

12 minutes ago, warfelg said:

@iknowcool It's not that I disagree with what you are saying, but waiting 24 hours could have meant getting the POC test Sunday morning rather than Saturday, and maybe someone else comes up positive, given the PS player brought in was positie too.

And I disagree with the 'irresponsibility' comment you've made.  If the first week was all that was missed then I would say maybe hard to pinpoint it on something on that.  But when tests were rolling in that long after the initial test, then there's something more.

Don't they get tested on Saturday anyway though?  I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure that they receive results Sunday morning from the Saturday tests no matter what (as you aren't allowed to test on game day).  So even if they left Sunday morning, they still would have had results from the Saturday tests that showed everyone's test was negative (I assume given that everyone played).  

[warfelg]

4 minutes ago, iknowcool said:

The Raiders held a charity event with a bunch of players not wearing masks.  And there is a reason they will not get anywhere near the same punishment as the Titans.  It didn't lead to a spread, even though it was likely as irresponsible and reckless as anything the Titans have done.

And we don't know that yet so a little premature to be saying it's because of that.

[warfelg]

Just now, iknowcool said:

Don't they get tested on Saturday anyway though?  I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure that they receive results Sunday morning from the Saturday tests no matter what (as you aren't allowed to test on game day).  So even if they left Sunday morning, they still would have had results from the Saturday tests that showed everyone's test was negative (I assume given that everyone played).  

You're thinking of the PCR tests, the ones that take 24 hours.  Using that test from Saturday to tell who can go Sunday doesn't do anything.  POC test is what the Patriots did when they travelled the morning of gameday, which, while not perfect, gives one last change.

[iknowcool]

Just now, warfelg said:

And we don't know that yet so a little premature to be saying it's because of that.

We don't know what yet?  What the Raiders will be punished?
 

We already know what they were punished.  10 players got fined $15,000 each.  I guarantee you that the Titans will be punished far more severely. 

[iknowcool]

11 minutes ago, warfelg said:

You're thinking of the PCR tests, the ones that take 24 hours.  Using that test from Saturday to tell who can go Sunday doesn't do anything.  POC test is what the Patriots did when they travelled the morning of gameday, which, while not perfect, gives one last change.

True, my mistake.  I think this is something that the NFL should require by every team before the game then, even if it isn't perfect.  

I want to make it clear too, it is possible I am being too light on the Titans.  I feel better defending the team than I do the league.  Titans could have done a lot of bad stuff that I don't know about, and I'll be the first to admit I was wrong if that information comes out.  But to me it feels like a lot of misplaced anger is being directed at them.  

Edited October 11, 2020 by iknowcool

[warfelg]

Just now, iknowcool said:

True, my mistake.  I think this is something that the NFL should require by every team before the game then, even if it isn't perfect.  

They've been doing more of it.  I agree they should have done it all along, but I think they players were against it because they didn't want to miss a game for a false positive.  There's the downside to those tests.  You don't want to have Derrick Henry miss a game or Tyler Lewan and the PCR test Monday morning turns up negative and could have played.

An alternative could be to have players tested Thursday, negative when they show up Friday you can travel on Friday, another test when you wake up Saturday morning, then stay Saturday night into Sunday with the whole team being tested for Sunday morning (Saturday morning) results.  If there's no additionals game is moved to Monday, if there is you go through the rescheduling.  Home teams do the same thing and Stay in the hotel Saturday night if tests taken Thursday and Friday are negative.