2021 NFL Draft Thread

[turtle28]

50 minutes ago, ovfd55 said:

Just to nit pick I Love Trave Eittiene from Clemson but no HB in 1st please

Yeah, I wouldn’t go RB in round 1, but I’d consider Eittiene if he’s still there in round two when we draft. I doubt he will be, but if he is, he’s going to be one of the best players available for us to draft in round 2 and I’d consider taking him. Having Gibson & Eittiene as a one two punch for our backfield would be amazing and they’re both great receivers as well. Yes, it can be viewed as a luxury but Eittiene will also help us out as well especially considering how much we throw to the RBs.

[turtle28]

13 minutes ago, ripsean21 said:

There’s a lot to like but I agree. That’s def a position where you have to just be so special and also have production in college to be drafted then. Though I actually think he’s the first RB I actually upped their rank in a senior season where they were a fringe 1 already. Lots of talented RB’s. But that’s a guy who a team like Pittsburgh should be looking at. The teams I think best for him and the team selecting him are Pittsburgh, Bmore, SanFran, Seattle, AZ. I think those are the best matches as far as player and team maximizing the value.

I could see Pitt selecting Eittiene, Seattle and AZ but I’m not sure about the other teams. BMore is stacked at RB. Not only do they still have Ingram, but they just drafted Dobbins last draft, he’s been good and they have Gus Edwards who is solid and Justice Hill who is versatile. BMore needs to address their WR position, they could use an upgrade at guard, LB next to Queen and an OLB to challenge Judon and while I like their young safeties, I could see them adding one too.

Seattle to me probably goes defense in this draft for almost every pick bc they need upgrades especially at DE, CB & a WLB but it’s true they also could use another RB although, Carson and Hyde are good, they’re no spring chickens.

[e16bball]

On 12/7/2020 at 1:52 PM, RSkinGM said:

E, I don't follow these college guys to the extent of a lot of you posters. What about Trey Lance- where you got him ?

On the bench for the first season he’s a pro, but honestly that’s the case for a lot of these guys.

He’s got all the “circumstantial” issues that suggest it could be a while till he’s ready for the NFL. One-year starter. Small school. Playing at a football powerhouse where all his guys are better than everyone else’s. Pretty simplified offense, throwing into enormous windows.

I think what you have in him is a guy who is probably a less tested Dwayne Haskins in the sense of throwing the ball. He’s got an excellent arm, he can make beautiful throws, the accuracy is there sometimes but it can get spotty on him. The concern is that he’s playing a really easy game, with all day to throw and receivers running open and a coaching staff that frankly schemes circles around a lot of the opposition. He’s not really been challenged at all, and I don’t think there’s any reason to believe he’s ready for the monstrous step up in degree of difficulty that the NFL passing game will present.

That said, what Lance gives you that Haskins doesn’t is the running ability. And a Haskins arm on Deshaun Watson legs gives him quite a high upside. 

For me, he’s QB4. But he’s right there in the mix with Fields and Wilson, simply because he (like Fields) has that tremendously high ceiling created by the crazy physical tools.

[turtle28]

12 minutes ago, e16bball said:

On the bench for the first season he’s a pro, but honestly that’s the case for a lot of these guys.

He’s got all the “circumstantial” issues that suggest it could be a while till he’s ready for the NFL. One-year starter. Small school. Playing at a football powerhouse where all his guys are better than everyone else’s. Pretty simplified offense, throwing into enormous windows.

I think what you have in him is a guy who is probably a less tested Dwayne Haskins in the sense of throwing the ball. He’s got an excellent arm, he can make beautiful throws, the accuracy is there sometimes but it can get spotty on him. The concern is that he’s playing a really easy game, with all day to throw and receivers running open and a coaching staff that frankly schemes circles around a lot of the opposition. He’s not really been challenged at all, and I don’t think there’s any reason to believe he’s ready for the monstrous step up in degree of difficulty that the NFL passing game will present.

That said, what Lance gives you that Haskins doesn’t is the running ability. And a Haskins arm on Deshaun Watson legs gives him quite a high upside. 

For me, he’s QB4. But he’s right there in the mix with Fields and Wilson, simply because he (like Fields) has that tremendously high ceiling created by the crazy physical tools.

Where do you rate him in comparison to Wentz?

I remember questioning Wentz for many of the reasons you brought up but Wentz had more accuracy coming out and he was a leader who was ready for the NFL w/ a lot of experience, and that’s why he went 2nd overall.

Do yiu think Wentz is a better prospect than Lance is? I do, just wondering what you and @ripsean21 think about the comparison between those two.

Edited December 8, 2020 by turtle28

[ripsean21]

3 hours ago, turtle28 said:

I could see Pitt selecting Eittiene, Seattle and AZ but I’m not sure about the other teams. BMore is stacked at RB. Not only do they still have Ingram, but they just drafted Dobbins last draft, he’s been good and they have Gus Edwards who is solid and Justice Hill who is versatile. BMore needs to address their WR position, they could use an upgrade at guard, LB next to Queen and an OLB to challenge Judon and while I like their young safeties, I could see them adding one too.

Seattle to me probably goes defense in this draft for almost every pick bc they need upgrades especially at DE, CB & a WLB but it’s true they also could use another RB although, Carson and Hyde are good, they’re no spring chickens.

Oh I get what Bmore and the other teams have or don’t it was moreso fit or where I think he would just shine and also impact the team on the same level. I think he is better then all the backs they have. He is one of those few scheme diverse players who can play just about anywhere those 4 just stood out. It wasn’t about if I thought they would or might consider him. 
 

The thing about having a great RB is when you have one your gold until they get injured. But I just think he makes that offense even more dynamic and helps Lamar actually excel with something he is good at. Checking down to a back who can make something great happen on every touch and he still can run inside. I think you can have him and Lamar on option sweeps and go real college on the league because if your a DB or LB and their both running side by side knowing Lamar can flip it or keep it at any time could really make their running game even more dynamic.
San Fran like Kyle can get just about anyone to produce. But when you get a guy who is already amazing in that scheme that scheme becomes elite. Seattle I think just anything consistent on the ground would be a huge bump for Russ. The guy Carey’s that team and has you pay him to do add a cheap explosive dynamic runner and their back to being on of the hardest to gameplan for especially with DK and his over the top ability they all just get alittle better. The Pitt is the perfect need meets value meets Giving Ben that real last piece to make what could be his last run or two with him carrying the load.

[ovfd55]

39 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Where do you rate him in comparison to Wentz?

I remember questioning Wentz for many of the reasons you brought up but Wentz had more accuracy coming out and he was a leader who was ready for the NFL w/ a lot of experience, and that’s why he went 2nd overall.

Do yiu think Wentz is a better prospect than Lance is? I do, just wondering what you and @ripsean21 think about the comparison between those two.

He has higher upside then Wentz to me,just in college we got to see a lot more of Wentz so it was easier to see his floor then it is with Lance.Also hurts that when scouting Lance in Playoffs last year in 4 games he only averaged 17 throw attempts a game and the championship vs JMU he only threw the ball 10 times.

If you forced me to compare him to a current QB I'd say he could like Watson,but It all depends on how he learns and adapts to NFL as his college system is basically one read if it not there take off.

[e16bball]

To follow up on what I said about Lance a bit earlier, I think the Alex Smith development is changing things a bit in terms of how I feel about draft prospects and their fit here. 

Before, I didn’t really want Lance (or even Fields and Wilson to a lesser degree) because I didn’t think you could throw them out there with this limited offense and have them survive the process. There’s too much they need to learn, and you can’t do that when you’re trying to scratch and claw to compete every Sunday, especially when you don’t have a lot of high-level talent around you (particularly on the OL) to help take some of the pressure off. 

I had just assumed that they would fall victim to the same impatience that gets the better of every team that drafts a young QB (including us with both RG3 and Haskins) and play any QB they drafted too soon. Which would be potentially disastrous with a guy like Lance. 

But now you’ve got a guy in Alex Smith who seems likely to hold down that starting spot into next season, and that is a major change. Now there’s more of a chance that they’ll sit the kid QB for an extended period of time, which to me increases the viability of a guy like Lance. I would consider him now if he was on the board at our pick, which I would not really have done previously.

[ripsean21]

53 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Where do you rate him in comparison to Wentz?

I remember questioning Wentz for many of the reasons you brought up but Wentz had more accuracy coming out and he was a leader who was ready for the NFL w/ a lot of experience, and that’s why he went 2nd overall.

Do yiu think Wentz is a better prospect than Lance is? I do, just wondering what you and @ripsean21 think about the comparison between those two.

I’m a bad person to ask as I actually thought Wentz was a for sure bust prospect even with my love of the smaller school programs. They ran the ball 76% I think in Wentz’s time there. Guys were constantly open as E mentioned about Lance. I didnt factor in his mental toughness and when he was playing great his wrecklace abandonment and disregard for his body. His should be MVP year he was the best player in the league. But his game was making magic out of broken plays and escaping should be sacks and got hit a lot. All the things I was worried about over time happened but I just didn’t think he could sustain the punishment for what made him great. But he was so close to when RG was breaking down I maybe took that fearless pocket presence and holding a ball till the last second as a knock where it was, actually what made him great. 
I have a had a higher grade on Lance last year then I had any year Wentz played. Even today I wouldn’t have picked Wentz because players either protect themselves or they don’t at that position. Lance has the same concerns as Wentz because he can physically run over a LB. And yeah that makes for a awesome highlight and meme on socials but when his shoulder is hurt week 8 because he bulls someone down then your stuck with Cam driving everything he has into a pass that goes nowhere. I love Lance!!! He has every tool Wentz had plus some. Mentally idk if he’s Wentz. Wentz has or had what it takes upstairs. But I also think Wentz can return to form. I hope he doesn’t obviously but I have concerns about any running QB I see taking on LB’s and safeties.

That was why I was one of those few guys talking about how special Kyler was. That’s why I loved Russ. I love the runners. But they have to realize that week 4 isn’t a conference championship game. Division games your gonna get hit that’s the game. But guys protect themselves naturally or they don’t it’s not something I’ve seen any of them adapt into their games later.

[ripsean21]

4 minutes ago, e16bball said:

To follow up on what I said about Lance a bit earlier, I think the Alex Smith development is changing things a bit in terms of how I feel about draft prospects and their fit here. 

Before, I didn’t really want Lance (or even Fields and Wilson to a lesser degree) because I didn’t think you could throw them out there with this limited offense and have them survive the process. There’s too much they need to learn, and you can’t do that when you’re trying to scratch and claw to compete every Sunday, especially when you don’t have a lot of high-level talent around you (particularly on the OL) to help take some of the pressure off. 

I had just assumed that they would fall victim to the same impatience that gets the better of every team that drafts a young QB (including us with both RG3 and Haskins) and play any QB they drafted too soon. Which would be potentially disastrous with a guy like Lance. 

But now you’ve got a guy in Alex Smith who seems likely to hold down that starting spot into next season, and that is a major change. Now there’s more of a chance that they’ll sit the kid QB for an extended period of time, which to me increases the viability of a guy like Lance. I would consider him now if he was on the board at our pick, which I would not really have done previously.

We are completely on the same page here. But I do think he’s more ready to succeed early then Wilson. I think Wilson needs to adjust to the speed of the game before he grows. I think whenever Lance is put out there his size and legs will allow him to compete earlier. But as we all know with mobile guys that early success is almost fools gold if the staff isn’t implementing actual timing routes and not just sending him out to rack up 9 wins to get to the playoffs to look bad against a zone Defense with a spy where they haven’t had to throw into windows

Edited December 8, 2020 by ripsean21

[e16bball]

1 hour ago, turtle28 said:

Where do you rate him in comparison to Wentz?

I remember questioning Wentz for many of the reasons you brought up but Wentz had more accuracy coming out and he was a leader who was ready for the NFL w/ a lot of experience, and that’s why he went 2nd overall.

Do yiu think Wentz is a better prospect than Lance is? I do, just wondering what you and @ripsean21 think about the comparison between those two.

In all honesty, that period of time was during my several year self-imposed exile from football, so I didn’t really see any of Wentz at NDSU. I remember thinking it odd when checking the headlines and news reports that an FCS kid was considered a potential top pick, but I didn’t do any scouting or anything. I don’t know that I’ve ever even seen a clip of Wentz playing for NDSU. 

Looking at the numbers alone, it certainly suggests Lance should be considered every bit the prospect that Wentz was. His passing numbers are actually better, and then you add in 1100 passing yards. I don’t know if NDSU has drastically overhauled their offensive system to make it more QB-friendly (isn’t everything, though?), but it sure looks like Lance was even more of a star than Wentz was. 

[turtle28]

2 hours ago, e16bball said:

To follow up on what I said about Lance a bit earlier, I think the Alex Smith development is changing things a bit in terms of how I feel about draft prospects and their fit here. 

Before, I didn’t really want Lance (or even Fields and Wilson to a lesser degree) because I didn’t think you could throw them out there with this limited offense and have them survive the process. There’s too much they need to learn, and you can’t do that when you’re trying to scratch and claw to compete every Sunday, especially when you don’t have a lot of high-level talent around you (particularly on the OL) to help take some of the pressure off. 

I had just assumed that they would fall victim to the same impatience that gets the better of every team that drafts a young QB (including us with both RG3 and Haskins) and play any QB they drafted too soon. Which would be potentially disastrous with a guy like Lance. 

But now you’ve got a guy in Alex Smith who seems likely to hold down that starting spot into next season, and that is a major change. Now there’s more of a chance that they’ll sit the kid QB for an extended period of time, which to me increases the viability of a guy like Lance. I would consider him now if he was on the board at our pick, which I would not really have done previously.

[ripsean21]

5 hours ago, ovfd55 said:

Just to nit pick I Love Trave Eittiene from Clemson but no HB in 1st please

There’s a lot to like but I agree. That’s def a position where you have to just be so special and also have production in college to be drafted then. Though I actually think he’s the first RB I actually upped their rank in a senior season where they were a fringe 1 already. Lots of talented RB’s. But that’s a guy who a team like Pittsburgh should be looking at. The teams I think best for him and the team selecting him are Pittsburgh, Bmore, SanFran, Seattle, AZ. I think those are the best matches as far as player and team maximizing the value.

[TKellion]

While you are evaluating QBs,I want to hear what you got on Trask please

[turtle28]

59 minutes ago, TKellion said:

While you are evaluating QBs,I want to hear what you got on Trask please

From what I can tell and what most people are saying, the two things that are holding Trask and Mac Jones back from being considered as high a prospect as Lawrence, Fields & Wilson is that while Trask & Jones are great pocket passers who are very accurate, neither have great arm strength and neither are better than average athletes. So, that’s holding them back. I do think they’ll be good NFL QBs though, they’re great college Qbs playing against the best college defenses in the country.

Edited December 9, 2020 by turtle28

[lavar703]

I wonder if being around Alex Smith has done anything for Dwayne Haskins as far as his approach to the game? I hope it’s helped his ego and if he can take anything from Smiths professional approach maybe he can turn things around and do something with his immense potential. That would be great for this organization and maybe it allows us to draft a weapon or a LT. Maybe it allows us to go after a LB or corner. If Dwayne showed something it would help this teams future so much.