2021 NFL Draft Thread

[ripsean21]

48 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Hilarious yet people were killing Fields for having a better game than what Wilson just had and Fields played vs a top 10 team in Indiana. The biased is real folks.

Indiana has a NFL  like secondary and until the running game helped him he looked lost. I love Mullins!!!  the most!!! That’s def my guy on Indiana,  but that was the week Feilds could have sold me. He didn’t. Like I’m just being honest if Indiana had Purdy or any level of draftable play at QB y’all would have lost and Fields play could have cost them the game early if they had anything at QB to do anything throughout the game

Edited December 6, 2020 by ripsean21

[turtle28]

17 minutes ago, ripsean21 said:

Indiana has a NFL  like secondary and until the running game helped him he looked lost. I love Mullins!!!  the most!!! That’s def my guy on Indiana,  but that was the week Feilds could have sold me. He didn’t. 

Fields looked good on OSU’s early drive where they scored vs Indy then the blitzing got to him & Ryan Day made adjustments to their offense w/ the running game and quicker passing.

I agree with what you’re saying, he had arguably his worst game as a starter in an Ohio state uni, but on the flip side if that’s Fields’ floor vs an NFL like secondary and a NFL type blitzing scheme that went unblocked by the OL & running backs on most plays, that’s pretty damn good. It’s better than what Lawrence did vs Ohio State last year in the CFBP & vs LSU which were two great defenses.

Not saying Fields is a better prospect than Lawrence bc he’s not, just saying Lawrence had worse games than Fields had vs great defenses too and his draft stock didn’t take a hit.

One way to look at the Indiana game for Fields is that if that’s Fields’ floor, he still accounted for 378 yards of offense (passing & rushing) and 3 TDs (passing & rushing).

To me if the Indiana game is Fields’ floor and that’s vs a great defense that’s still good minus two bad ints. That’s a pretty high floor for Fields and his ceiling is still very high as well.
 

Also, in the Indiana game if I remember correctly, the OSU WRs had 3 drops and once it was for a TD. So, if those drops don’t happen you’re talking about Fields accounting for 4 TDs vs that Indy defense and he probably has 350 yards passing on the day.

Edited December 6, 2020 by turtle28

[e16bball]

Just now, turtle28 said:

Yes but there’s a difference that was Costal Carolina. It’s not equivalent competition to Indiana and Fields still threw for 300 plus yards, 2 TDs - despite 2 bad ints & an unlucky int - against Indiana who was #9 and a great defense.

The competition level was far different between those two games. I’d love to see Ohio State play Costal Carolina and see how Fields does, I’m sure he’s throw for at least 300 yards & 3 TDs.

But in fairness, Wilson is playing with Dax Milne, Gunner Romney, and the BYU OL instead of Chris Olave, Garrett Wilson, and the stacker OSU OL. Obviously if we sent OSU down there to play Coastal, they would likely crush them and Fields would likely put up better numbers than Wilson. But does that tell us how good Fields is — or how good OSU is?

This gets to an issue I’ve been harping on in recent weeks. What we’re seeing is these guys from football factory schools, with 5 star talent all around them, absolutely killing it stat-wise. But is the monster production the result of the QB’s individual talent and ability? Or could any pretty good college QB put up numbers like that in that offense with that talent level around them? It’s particularly concerning this year, when the top QBs are from Clemson, Ohio State, Alabama, North Dakota State (the FCS Alabama). And then you have one from Florida, which I will concede has not been on the same level as the others in recent history, but the talent level on that offense this season is on par with the rest.

I still have Fields over Wilson. I think he has huge upside, I think he’s more physically talented than Deshaun Watson and maybe even Josh Allen, for example — but he’s not remotely ready to play QB at a high level in the NFL. He’s a “sit a year and learn from Alex Smith”  candidate for me, for sure. 

[turtle28]

4 hours ago, e16bball said:

But in fairness, Wilson is playing with Dax Milne, Gunner Romney, and the BYU OL instead of Chris Olave, Garrett Wilson, and the stacker OSU OL. Obviously if we sent OSU down there to play Coastal, they would likely crush them and Fields would likely put up better numbers than Wilson. But does that tell us how good Fields is — or how good OSU is?

This gets to an issue I’ve been harping on in recent weeks. What we’re seeing is these guys from football factory schools, with 5 star talent all around them, absolutely killing it stat-wise. But is the monster production the result of the QB’s individual talent and ability? Or could any pretty good college QB put up numbers like that in that offense with that talent level around them? It’s particularly concerning this year, when the top QBs are from Clemson, Ohio State, Alabama, North Dakota State (the FCS Alabama). And then you have one from Florida, which I will concede has not been on the same level as the others in recent history, but the talent level on that offense this season is on par with the rest.

I still have Fields over Wilson. I think he has huge upside, I think he’s more physically talented than Deshaun Watson and maybe even Josh Allen, for example — but he’s not remotely ready to play QB at a high level in the NFL. He’s a “sit a year and learn from Alex Smith”  candidate for me, for sure. 

I 100% agree with that except that the Ohio State OL - which is stacked - but it played like trash vs Indiana which was a bigger problem than Fields’ play. Then, yesterday vs Michigan State 3 of OSU’s starting OL missed the game bc of COVID and then Wyatt Davis - their best OL and likely 1st round pick - got hurt and played through that injury.

What you’re saying is more or less a lot of what I’ve been trying to say in some ways sans the first paragraph. Always props to you for summarizing and explaining things in a way that makes sense for everyone - even if sometimes the other posters don’t agree. Great post.

Edited December 7, 2020 by turtle28

[ripsean21]

4 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Fields looked good on OSU’s early drive where they scored vs Indy then the blitzing got to him & Ryan Day made adjustments to their offense w/ the running game and quicker passing.

I agree with what you’re saying, he had arguably his worst game as a starter in an Ohio state uni, but on the flip side if that’s Fields’ floor vs an NFL like secondary and a NFL type blitzing scheme that went unblocked by the OL & running backs on most plays, that’s pretty damn good. It’s better than what Lawrence did vs Ohio State last year in the CFBP & vs LSU which were two great defenses.

Not saying Fields is a better prospect than Lawrence Nalc he’s not, just saying Lawrence had worse games than Fields had vs great defenses too and his draft stock didn’t take a hit.

One way to look at the Indiana game for Fields is that if that’s Fields’ floor, he still accounted for 378 yards of offense ( passing & rushing) and 3 TDs (passing & rushing).

To me if the Indiana game is Fields’ floor and that’s vs a great defense that’s still good minus two bad ints. That’s a pretty high floor for Fields and his ceiling is still very high as well. Also, in the Indiana game if I remember correctly, the OSU WRs had 3 drops and once if they was for a TD. So, if those drops don’t happen you’re talking about Fields accounting for 4 TDs vs that Indy defense and he probably has 350 yards passing on the day.

And what your saying I agree he does has a very high floor. I think he’s the most likely to have that rookie of the year type sucsess. And they did make adjustments and those adjustment really put Indy on its heels. I’m not on the Lawrence train either. I think he’s a super high floor guy as well but I don’t know how much growth I’ve seen from the Freshman sensation to now. Either can go one or two. It’s the most likely scenario. Idk I guess as I’ve gotten older and my understanding of the game while the safer selections can keep your job those deep scouting finding out the guy with the boom or bust has that killer mental that’s how you hit a home run.

Plus what makes it easier for me to not have to marry a Fields or Lawrence is seeing Wilson, knowing Lance can play and just the QB explosion in college right now. The option helps these guys but scouting becomes alittle harder. But where I buy in is when I see pro throws even if it’s 10 or 25 times all year most of these guys don’t even attempt this types of plays outside of the 2 minute drill. I think both the top guys are going to have amazing careers dependent on health and the staffs that select them. But there’s just so many other guys that are presenting value to allow us to not have to sweat going elsewhere early. We can truely go BPA and take a flyer late and maybe strike gold!!! If not there’s next years class which Atleast one or two we’ve discussed will be in that class

[Woz]

22 hours ago, turtle28 said:

I wish BYU would join the Big12, PAC12 or at worst the American Athletic football conference and play teams like Cincinnati, UCF and Memphis.

BYU wanted to join the Pac-12. The Pac-12 was not interested in them.

As for the Big 12, keep in mind that the reason BYU is an independent is that they left the Mountain West because they didn't want to be the one small, religious school amongst a bunch of large, secular schools. If you exclude Baylor and TCU (the team the Big 12 took instead), that problem would be even worse.

Finally, I think the American offered BYU a spot, but BYU turned them down. I think they viewed it as the same problem as the Mountain West, but with even longer travel times.

[Woz]

4 hours ago, turtle28 said:

Yes but there’s a difference that was Costal Carolina. It’s not equivalent competition to Indiana and Fields still threw for 300 yards, 2 TDs and a rushing TD - despite 2 bad ints & an unlucky int - against Indiana who was #9 and a great defense. Fields still accounted for 3 TDs while going against a great defense in arguably his worst game as a starter. That’s his floor!

The competition level was far different between those two games. I’d love to see Ohio State play Costal Carolina and see how Fields does, I’m sure he’s throw for at least 300 yards & 3 TDs.

For better or worse, if a team is undefeated, you have to give them at least half a loaf of credit.

[ARTMONK HOF]

Sunday 12/6 6:40 pm. Currently picking 10th. 

[Woz]

8 minutes ago, ARTMONK HOF said:

Sunday 12/6 6:40 pm. Currently picking 10th. 

Artifact of Washington not playing yet.

• Win and Giants win = 12th
• Win and Giants loss = 19th
• Loss and Eagles win = 6th (not looking all that good for Philadelphia, though)
• Loss and Eagles loss = 7th

Edited December 6, 2020 by Woz

[lavar703]

Looking the last option there @Woz

[turtle28]

1 hour ago, Woz said:

BYU wanted to join the Pac-12. The Pac-12 was not interested in them.

As for the Big 12, keep in mind that the reason BYU is an independent is that they left the Mountain West because they didn't want to be the one small, religious school amongst a bunch of large, secular schools. If you exclude Baylor and TCU (the team the Big 12 took instead), that problem would be even worse.

Finally, I think the American offered BYU a spot, but BYU turned them down. I think they viewed it as the same problem as the Mountain West, but with even longer travel times.

Oh well, it is what it is. Since that’s the case they’ll likely never get to the CFBP.

[turtle28]

1 hour ago, Woz said:

For better or worse, if a team is undefeated, you have to give them at least half a loaf of credit.

Well yay, they were undefeated playing a bunch of cupcakes but Boise State and who they lost to yesterday Costal Carolina both of which I don’t think are anything more than average teams anyway in a good football conference.

Edited December 7, 2020 by turtle28

[turtle28]

43 minutes ago, Woz said:

Artifact of Washington not playing yet.

• Win and Giants win = 12th
• Win and Giants loss = 19th
• Loss and Eagles win = 6th (not looking all that good for Philadelphia, though)
• Loss and Eagles loss = 7th

We’re going to keep losing as E said in this thread or another, the only teams we’ve been competitive against or beaten this year are under .500.

I think we keep creeping up the draft latter and in the end are picking around 5th. I sure hope we don’t win two more games somehow or even beat the Eagles and somehow end up winning the division.

As Lavar said #7 is where we’ll be at after tomorrow.

Edited December 7, 2020 by turtle28

[lavar703]

1 minute ago, turtle28 said:

We’re going to keep losing as E said in this thread or another, the only teams we’ve been competitive against or beaten this year are under .500.

People got excited after the first Cowboys blow out and then came back to earth. It’s going to happen again when we lose 4 out of the next 5. 

[turtle28]

Just now, lavar703 said:

People got excited after the first Cowboys blow out and then came back to earth. It’s going to happen again when we lose 4 out of the next 5. 

Well some people came back to earth. There’s a few who never will, but yes you’re right.