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Bobby816

Darnold "should" Request a Trade

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15 minutes ago, drew39k said:

What do you mean, no one is going to do this?

The belief is that Peyton Manning went back to school to avoid being selected by the Jets.

Eli Manning made it know that he wouldn't play for the Chargers which forced them to trade him to the Giants during the draft. John Elway refused to play for the Colts so they traded his rights to the Broncos. 

It's happened before and it will certainly happen again.

Peyton Manning wanted to be picked #1 and Parcells wouldn’t guarantee it. That’s why he went back to school. 

Eli and Elway are two examples in 100 years. Players don’t do that type of stuff. It’s not happening. Lawrence won’t go back to school no matter who’s picking #1.

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3 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

Lots a talented QBs have had their "struggles" early in their career. But we as a franchise in 3 whole seasons have done very little to help the kid. The last 1/2 of last year what I saw looked like a franchise QB. Weapons, OL and coaching has EVERYTHING to do with the development into a franchise QB for any QB. We have really done none of this. Gase is garbage. The OL was addressed but is isn't finished and is still below average in the league (has potential though). And the weapons have just been embarrassing his whole time here. He's also is still only 23.

 

Look at Josh Allen as a perfect example. The have Daboll helping him on the coaching side. They have an OK OL (proof you don't need a great OL though to win and make a young QB a franchise QB). But the biggest thing for them has been the weapons. Diggs has transformed them at WR where they already had a couple talented guys. Add that they have 2 quality young RBs as well... they have helped Allen in a big way. Look at nearly every young QB that's winning right now. They have talent around them in several avenues. We have nothing. So to put the blame on the QB is not addressing the 2 main issues in Coaching and Talent.

The coaching could be bad cause the talent is bad, the talent could be bad cause the coaching is bad. Either opinion could be correct. 

Sam throwing across his body to the middle of the field is on him. 

Sam holding on to the ball too long and getting hurt is on him. 

Sam missing guys running wide open is on him. 

Sam throwing picks in crucial situations is on him. 

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Daboll was with Allen his whole career and he completed like 57% of his passes. This year Allen is doing better because Allen got better and improved not because of Daboll. 

Sam is talented but makes far too many mental errors and plays under pressure far too often even when he’s not under pressure.

To call him a franchise QB is wrong at this point.

Edited by KingOfNewYork

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28 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said:

Sam's value doesn't get better unfortunately.  It's at it's highest after this year so the team getting him has a whole year to evaluate him before picking up his 5th year.  We are slowly getting healthy so despite the terrible coaching he should have some weapons back and be able to showcase what he's got.  The OL has been decent enough and with Perriman and Mims back with Crowder that is enough to be successful.  This is his chance to showcase himself.

I know it’s PFF but I’m pretty sure our o line was ranked dead last going into week 5.

Perriman, Mims, and a bottom 5 offensive line is still terrible. Add on the worst coaching in the league. But it looks like he’s shell shocked anyway.

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Did anyone notice the difference between Flacco in the pocket vs. Sam?  Flacco just looked like a QB back there, confident, sure.  Sam runs for his life whether there is real pressure or not.  Sam looks at defenders way too much which is why he misses open receivers.  I really had hope for him and he may yet be a good QB, but not on this team.

Yes, mac and gase are to blame for setting him up for failure, but right now I question if he really can be an NFL QB.  It is kind of funny to think that the "great decision" between Mayfield, Darnold, Allen and Rosen was such a hot debate at the time.  The greatest QB class since '83 some said.  So far, you have one mediocre QB, two bad QB, and the QB with the most question marks is now a top 5 QB in the NFL.  Even funnier is that the best QB as of right now, who wasn't even talked about that much, wasn't picked until very late in the first round - Jackson. 

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41 minutes ago, GangGreen420 said:

I know it’s PFF but I’m pretty sure our o line was ranked dead last going into week 5.

Perriman, Mims, and a bottom 5 offensive line is still terrible. Add on the worst coaching in the league. But it looks like he’s shell shocked anyway.

A lot of that is Sam not getting the ball out.  I think they are finally starting to gel too even with all the injuries.  I think that ranking is largely overblown.  It's like Watson in Hou, his OL gets killed because he holds the ball way too long.  Sam for whatever reason, no separation, shell shocked, or whatever is holding the ball too long.  

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3 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

Lots a talented QBs have had their "struggles" early in their career. But we as a franchise in 3 whole seasons have done very little to help the kid. The last 1/2 of last year what I saw looked like a franchise QB. Weapons, OL and coaching has EVERYTHING to do with the development into a franchise QB for any QB. We have really done none of this. Gase is garbage. The OL was addressed but is isn't finished and is still below average in the league (has potential though). And the weapons have just been embarrassing his whole time here. He's also is still only 23.

 

Look at Josh Allen as a perfect example. The have Daboll helping him on the coaching side. They have an OK OL (proof you don't need a great OL though to win and make a young QB a franchise QB). But the biggest thing for them has been the weapons. Diggs has transformed them at WR where they already had a couple talented guys. Add that they have 2 quality young RBs as well... they have helped Allen in a big way. Look at nearly every young QB that's winning right now. They have talent around them in several avenues. We have nothing. So to put the blame on the QB is not addressing the 2 main issues in Coaching and Talent.

A lot of young QB's have struggles thru the years, in fact during the fifties thru the mid sixties not all but most rookie OB didn't get on the field for three years. it was almost a unwritten  rule. As much as I hate eating crow look at Fitz, he has been playing down here in Florida with Tampa Bay & Miami, and really has put up big numbers, last week he was the highest rated QB in the league, But in is very early year he couldn't hold a job. Just like anything else some player are slow learners like John Brode it took him three year before he became a outstand  QB, It John Unitas two years before he became great. I know it is a different era but you have to be patient with a player you think has talent.

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5 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said:

A lot of that is Sam not getting the ball out.  I think they are finally starting to gel too even with all the injuries.  I think that ranking is largely overblown.  It's like Watson in Hou, his OL gets killed because he holds the ball way too long.  Sam for whatever reason, no separation, shell shocked, or whatever is holding the ball too long.  

I think it’s a combination of it. The line should gradually get better but the receivers are not getting open often either (I don’t think Perriman and a rookie who’s missed everything up until this point is going to change that) It’s a shame we won’t ever get to see him in a real offense here. He didn’t exactly have much of an offense around him as a rookie but he looked much better then.

If he can just play decent and not throw bad picks we should be able to get a 2nd for him but that’s an uphill battle when the environment has turned toxic 

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37 minutes ago, GangGreen420 said:

I think it’s a combination of it. The line should gradually get better but the receivers are not getting open often either (I don’t think Perriman and a rookie who’s missed everything up until this point is going to change that) It’s a shame we won’t ever get to see him in a real offense here. He didn’t exactly have much of an offense around him as a rookie but he looked much better then.

If he can just play decent and not throw bad picks we should be able to get a 2nd for him but that’s an uphill battle when the environment has turned toxic 

It's still coaching, QB, OL, and then weapons in that order.  Right now the coaching is flat out horrendous, the QB is sub par, and the OL while not terrible still isn't above average even though I think once they get healthy they will be an average OL actually.

Scheme can cover for sub par weapons and right now that just isn't happening consistently.  Sam is also missing open guys so there is blame to go around.

Lots of teams are dealing with injuries especially to their WRs but it only seems to turn the Jets into a high school offense.  All other teams seem to be adjusting.  Teams are still putting up 20+ a game no matter who is out there.  If we score 1 TD it's considered a success which is really telling as to the state of the Jets.

Yes most of that falls on coaching.

Edited by Rockice_8
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Using Josh Allen for the comparison against Sam Darnold was unfair.

 

Daboll and Allen have been working together for 3 years.    2 years for Gase and Darnold.

Bills began to rebuild the team in Allen's rookie season.   Darnold's first 2 years are sort of "Go with what we had and get by that".  On Darnold's 3rd year, Jets actually began to rebuild.

Bills' GM has been addressing on weapons seriously.  Jets don't.

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6 hours ago, JetsandI said:

Using Josh Allen for the comparison against Sam Darnold was unfair.

 

Daboll and Allen have been working together for 3 years.    2 years for Gase and Darnold.

Bills began to rebuild the team in Allen's rookie season.   Darnold's first 2 years are sort of "Go with what we had and get by that".  On Darnold's 3rd year, Jets actually began to rebuild.

Bills' GM has been addressing on weapons seriously.  Jets don't.

Let’s be real The difference is play calling and weapons. Besides that. The comparison is 100% fare.

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If we do decide to trade Darnold and we trade a bunch of guys at the deadline and end up having a ton of picks...douglas should look to start adding 2022 picks and have two absolutely stacked drafts. Keep the cap low in 2021 because lets be honest...adding blue chip free agents isnt happening this offseason, add players with something to prove. In 2022, after you hopefully show signs of life...you start pumping the cap up and take advantage of Trevor Lawrences rookie deal.

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11 hours ago, xrade said:

Did anyone notice the difference between Flacco in the pocket vs. Sam?  Flacco just looked like a QB back there, confident, sure.  Sam runs for his life whether there is real pressure or not.  Sam looks at defenders way too much which is why he misses open receivers.  I really had hope for him and he may yet be a good QB, but not on this team.

Yes, mac and gase are to blame for setting him up for failure, but right now I question if he really can be an NFL QB.  It is kind of funny to think that the "great decision" between Mayfield, Darnold, Allen and Rosen was such a hot debate at the time.  The greatest QB class since '83 some said.  So far, you have one mediocre QB, two bad QB, and the QB with the most question marks is now a top 5 QB in the NFL.  Even funnier is that the best QB as of right now, who wasn't even talked about that much, wasn't picked until very late in the first round - Jackson. 

I'd disagree whole heartedly on any take involving Flacco looking poised under center against a mediocre cards d.

There were a number of plays where Joe looked completely flustered. Wrs were running open too. He tried to force balls to receivers in tight coverages. 

Hell, midway through the third quarter he had 84 yards passing... Jamosom Crowder had like 80 percent of all of Flaccos passing yards for the entire game.

The jets put up 10 points against arguably the worst defense they've played this season. The only time they put up less was against a Colts d that is considered among the best in the NFL.

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MY problem with Darnold. goes back to his last year at SO Cal, I watch as many of his games as I could. with all the offensive talent he had to work with he was far from being the best QB in the country. Just last week one of the talking heads at ESPN, said the exact same thing. I brought this up when we were drafting him. Several people jump all over me when I brought up the failure of SO Cal QB's over the years. He looks like a puppet when he is on the field  how much of this is Gase fault probably a lot. To me it looks like Darnold, has tunnel vision. I don't know what it is but there is something wrong with Darnold. With that said Gase, has done nothing to improve his QB. Look at the way Gase handled Ryan Tannehill,what more proof do you need.

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7 minutes ago, doumeyer said:

MY problem with Darnold. goes back to his last year at SO Cal, I watch as many of his games as I could. with all the offensive talent he had to work with he was far from being the best QB in the country. Just last week one of the talking heads at ESPN, said the exact same thing. I brought this up when we were drafting him. Several people jump all over me when I brought up the failure of SO Cal QB's over the years. He looks like a puppet when he is on the field  how much of this is Gase fault probably a lot. To me it looks like Darnold, has tunnel vision. I don't know what it is but there is something wrong with Darnold. With that said Gase, has done nothing to improve his QB. Look at the way Gase handled Ryan Tannehill,what more proof do you need.

Who was all this talent though? Deontay Burnett who was an UDFA? Michael Pittman who was a true freshman? Only legit talent he had was Ronald Jones at RB.

So he didn’t have all this crazy talent around him.

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