T Law or Fields

[doumeyer]

1 hour ago, Hunter2_1 said:

Yes, you do. Even a Pats fan recognises that you're the most chastised fan base in football. I can't even believe this is a question....fields is very accurate, but is a clear 2nd fav to T-Law. You take T-Law without even thinking.

No question we are are a hypothetical group. and I don't like it either.

[JetsandI]

See you in 10 years. lol.

 

I still think T Law edges over Fields because of quick arm action.   Both have used to their respective speed of offenses.  T Law is able to take a shot because he has a lot of WRs that can use long arms and body movement to win 50% contest.  Fields holds football longer because of long developing plays and he often finds WRs with larger separation due to good route running.  Because their offenses are so effective both qb get done within one or two reads. Neither is able to go through field procession during dropback and they will learn how to do in NFL. 

As the coaching staff stands right now, I go with T Law.  As for different coaching system, I will leave it to them and continue praying for Jets having an actual qb.

[Jag68Sid87]

On 11/12/2020 at 8:21 AM, drew39k said:

Lol... The recency bias is real. 

I don't agree with but understand drafting Lawrence, but Fields and Wilson.... No. There are QBs in every draft that are as capable as they are and will garner the same amount of hype. You trade the pick for a haul and build a real team. Let Darnold battle a vet next preseason and if he fails then you draft a QB to sit behind said vet for one year. That gives you ample time to rebuild the team and install an offensive system instead of continuing to hope that one QB prospect is going to magically save the team. 

 

I think it would be a very Jets thing to do, to pass on Lawrence and to continue to believe in Sam Darnold. We can absolutely rebuild around Lawrence and the new coaching staff (maybe even a new GM, hopefully one day a new ownership group!), but this is hardly going to be a one-man show. Yes, the QB is the key but he always is the key, whether you are drafting first overall or signing 43-year-old Tom Brady. It always and will forever start with the quarterback. And for myself, I don't know about the rest of you, I have seen enough of Darnold as a starter. Can he eventually become a starter in the NFL? Perhaps. But not here anymore, not with the current state of the franchise. When you are this bad, you have to blow it up and start over (regardless of how many years the current QB has had). It may not be fair, but it is the nature of the beast. You cannot tell this fan base that you think Darnold is still the man, not after what has transpired this year. 

 

21 hours ago, drew39k said:

It's a fallacy that you need a top 5 pick to land a QB. Mahomes went what 10th, Watson was around there too, Lamar Jackson was end of round one and there are tons of other examples around the league. Teams that succeed have good teams then bring in a QB.  Look at the Packers as a perfect example. Had Favre, Drafted Rodgers when he fell and had him sit for a few years, fast forward to now and they are doing the same thing with Love. Look at teams that are constantly in the top ten wasting picks on QBs that bust because the team around them sucks. Hell, even when they hit(Stafford, Ryan) they still struggle to be consistently good because all of their success hinges on the QB carrying the team to try and make up for deficiencies.

Prove me wrong, show me teams that sucked for years, had no talent, drafted  a QB at the top and were able to turn around because of it. 

 

We are not one of those teams, though. We are a different animal completely. We are on par with some of the most inept sports franchises in history. And there is a huge difference between top-5 picks and the clear-cut consensus No. 1 pick. You mentioned Lamar Jackson, well I wanted him that year way before Darnold but the NFL establishment looks down upon the Lamar Jackson types, so we got the prototype in Darnold. Yay team. 

Dallas was nothing before they drafted Aikman and started building around him. They had a few pieces in place before, and then it all fell into place quickly. Same thing for Peyton Manning in Indy. Cincinnati is a more recent example. Sure, they had a few pieces in place before getting Joe Burrow, but now they look like a team ready to build a winner around him. 

That is what happens when you get a true consensus franchise QB. Now, if you're saying that you can't have only a franchise QB, everybody will agree with you. But you are suggesting we build a team first, then add the QB. How many years, exactly, have we been trying to do that? Basically my entire life (I am 50). 

We have basically been in this position once before in our entire history. We drafted Keyshawn Johnson that off-season. I looked at that entire draft recently, and the QB class was beyond awful that year. It is typical of the Jets that we sucked balls at the absolute worst time back in 1996. 

Well, this year seems different. We seem to be sucking balls at precisely the right time.

 

Again, let's not overthink this, take the consensus franchise QB and then start the building process around him. AND, we do have a few pieces already in place to help Lawrence with the process: his blind side should be protected, fingers crossed, the defense can be rebuilt around a stud lineman like Q Williams, and the receiver corps made Joe Flacco look good on Monday night. Those provide hope. 

But that hope means nothing without a true franchise-level QB.

 

2 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

I want to touch on something that I've seen several say that I just think is a lazy assessment. And that's that where a QB goes to college that it has anything to do with how good they'll be.

This has been used as a reason why Darnold isn't as good as we thought. And I've seen some use it as to why we might question drafting TLaw or Fields.

So here's a list of the QBs and where they went to school.

 

Mahomes: Texas Tech

Wilson: NC State

Rodgers: Cal

Brady: Michigan

Roethlisberger: Miami (Ohio)

Brees: Purdue

Allen: Wyoming

Tannehill: Texas A&M

Murray: Oklahoma

Herbert: Oregon

Carr: Fresno State

Ryan: Boston College

Cousins: Michigan State

Watson: Clemson

Mayfield: Oklahoma

Stafford: Georgia

Goff: Cal

Wentz: North Dakota State

Jackson: Lousiville

Rivers: NC State

Bridgewater: Lousiville

Burrow: LSU

Tua: Alabama

Foles: Arizona

Minshew: Washington State

Jones: Duke

Garoppolo: Eastern Illinois

Lock: Missouri

Prescott: Mississippi State 

Newton: Auburn

Haskins: Ohio State

 

SOOOOOOOO... my point being is that there's no school that has this history of great QBs. So that's a weak and lazy assessment as to why you don't want TLaw or Fields. School has absolutely 0 to do with how good the player is or will be. This shows that nearly every NFL QB right now went to a different college.

 

 

I don't think the school matters. I think what matters is where that school is in terms of the national spotlight and in terms of playing big games in college (to prepare the QB for what is ahead of him in the NFL). 

 - Burrow looks like the real deal, but he already tasted the pressure of winning and big games. He dominated NCAA football, albeit for one year.

- Tua looks good, but he too was under the spotlight and performing in huge games as a freshman. That counts for something.

- Lamar Jackson may not have played in the biggest games in college, but he balled out and won a Heisman. That matters.

- Guys like Rodgers and Mahomes were instilled into great offenses, so the transition was seamless. 

 

Lawrence is very much like Burrow, Tua and to a lesser degree Jackson. He has had to deal with big-pressure games as a freshman (redshirt, whatever) and thrived under that spotlight. That counts for a lot in my book. The biggest games Sanchez and Darnold had to play before arriving in the NFL were USC-UCLA. Not the same thing, imo.

 

For me, this is not even a debate. You take Lawrence and hope he wants to be a Jet.

[drew39k]

16 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

Couldn't disagree with this more. So picks are more valuable than actual franchise changing players?

No, building a team by drafting a lot of talented players high and developing an offense with a vet that can teach a younger guy later in the process is more important than spending a#1 overall on a guy and just hoping his skill will overcome the massive deficiencies this team has both on and off the field. 

Step one to fixing this means is getting a coach and a vet like Matt ryan or matt stafford, hell an Alex Smith or Tyrod Taylor would work.have them battle Darnold  A vet will help implement the coaches offense. Help get the wrs ol and rbs on the right page in the huddle. Once the offense is installed it will be MUCH easier to bring in a young QB because, instead of the crap we have now where wrs run the wrong routes, the ol can't help the QB with line calls and the rbs can't blitz pickup, those positions will be able to help the QB since they will have had more time in the system. That's setting a team up for actual success.

And let's not pretend Lawrence and certainly Fields Lance and Wilson don't have a decent chance to be busts man.plemty of highly touted qb prospects have busted.

[Rich51]

I’m interestedd to see how the college season plays out. I think there could be 5 QBs taken in the first round - Lawrence, Fields, Wilson, Alabama’s underrated Jones, and Lance. If we could get two first and a second and only drop a few spots (come on Ajax, you know you want Lawrence) it would be too much to pass up.As @drew39k said, a lot of top rated QBs have failed.

We are the perfect example of a team spending all it’s draft capital on a top QB who, so far, has failed to live up to his draft position. Back in 2018 I did not like the trading of our 3 second round picks to move up 3 spots. We had just signed Teddy and I was certain that Darnold was going #1. That would have left us probably choosing between Rosen and Allen. I don’t think most GMs had Mayfield as a top 10 pick

so, even if we ended up with Rosen, Teddy would have been our starting QB (he had a great preseason) and Rosen , or Allen or even Darnold, could have sat for a year behind a technically solid field general. By moving up I think Bowles had to start Darnold. If we had taken him at 6, that pressure wouldn’t have been there, imo.

with our 2nd that year we would have had the choice of Braden Smith, or WRs Sutton, Kirk, Miller or Chark. In 2019 we could have had T’s Taylor or Risner  or WR Deebo  with our 1st 2nd and either T Scharping or WRs AJ or DK with our 2nd.  Of course Macc probably wouldn’t have drafted any OL or WRs but the opportunity to build a strong offense was there.

 

[rickyt31]

I just want us to pick the best player. I'm not falling into the hype. I've watched A lot of Clemson. Even one of the starting WRs came to my birthday party last year. I really like them both, but it's too close for me to call. 

It is pretty fun to compare these two. Joe Burrow is my favorite QB prospect l, but these two are close. 

[SDotNova]

Our supporting cast isn’t the greatest but I think it looks worse than what it is because of coaching and QB play.

We can definitely build around TLaw quickly with the resources we have.

Mims looks like the real deal and Crowder is a starting level WR. If we can get a starting Center and move McGovern to RG, our OL probably goes from below average to average.

We’re missing a starting level Center, WR, TE, and RB. While that’s more than we’d like, it’s not like unrealistic to think we can get all 4 in this offseason even with using the 1st overall pick on a QB (as long as we ignore defense with our first 3 picks which I’m in favor of). But at worse out offensive rebuild takes 1 additional offseason. Going QB is most definitely the right choice.

Edited November 14, 2020 by SDotNova

[doumeyer]

1 hour ago, rickyt31 said:

I just want us to pick the best player. I'm not falling into the hype. I've watched A lot of Clemson. Even one of the starting WRs came to my birthday party last year. I really like them both, but it's too close for me to call. 

It is pretty fun to compare these two. Joe Burrow is my favorite QB prospect l, but these two are close. 

I agree with you on all the hype business,  you really never know what happens when a college player gets into the NFL. And what happens if we end up with two wins and have the third overall pick in the draft?? As of now nothing is a lock for any team where they pick in the draft. Right now were are in good position who knows what is going to happen in the last seven games. That is why Darnold will be a Jet till our draft position is is guaranteed

Edited November 14, 2020 by doumeyer

[rickyt31]

12 minutes ago, doumeyer said:

I agree with you on all the hype business,  you really never know what happens when a college player gets into the NFL. And what happens if we end up with two wins and have the third overall pick in the draft?? As of now nothing is a lock for any team where they pick in the draft. Right now were are in good position who knows what is going to happen in the last seven games. That is why Darnold will be a Jet till our draft position is is guaranteed

Definitely. I'm penciling Sam as a draft day trade. 

If we some how win 2 games, Sam could still be in trouble if he isn't lighting it up. The Battle would become Sam vs Trask, lance, and Wilson. Possibly Mac Jones is in the mix. This class is deep. Sam looking good with the starters and winning at least a couple of games is the only way he can save his job. 

[Bobby816]

11 hours ago, drew39k said:

No, building a team by drafting a lot of talented players high and developing an offense with a vet that can teach a younger guy later in the process is more important than spending a#1 overall on a guy and just hoping his skill will overcome the massive deficiencies this team has both on and off the field. 

Step one to fixing this means is getting a coach and a vet like Matt ryan or matt stafford, hell an Alex Smith or Tyrod Taylor would work.have them battle Darnold  A vet will help implement the coaches offense. Help get the wrs ol and rbs on the right page in the huddle. Once the offense is installed it will be MUCH easier to bring in a young QB because, instead of the crap we have now where wrs run the wrong routes, the ol can't help the QB with line calls and the rbs can't blitz pickup, those positions will be able to help the QB since they will have had more time in the system. That's setting a team up for actual success.

And let's not pretend Lawrence and certainly Fields Lance and Wilson don't have a decent chance to be busts man.plemty of highly touted qb prospects have busted.

For me your point would have more validity if we didn’t have another 1st a very high 2nd and 2 3rds. Along with 2 1st next year. That’s plenty of ammo to rebuild.

[doumeyer]

I see where Trever Lawerance, is going to graduate next month with a degree in marketing. He also must be a very smart kid to graduate in 3 1/2 years. The problem now is all these sports writers in the newspaper are tell him to stay in college or refuse to sign with the Jets. Plus that clown Stephen A Smith had a fifteen minute rant how lousy the Jets are and he should never sign with them. Down here in Orlando the sports anchors had  a debate about what TL should do two our of the three said he should not sign with the Jet and the other said wait a minute the Jets have three good young receivers now and they  have a mess of high picks in the draft and a ton of money to spent, and there is no reason why TL should not sign with the Jets.

[rickyt31]

1 minute ago, doumeyer said:

I see where Trever Lawerance, is going to graduate next month with a degree in marketing. He also must be a very smart kid to graduate in 3 1/2 years. The problem now is all these sports writers in the newspaper are tell him to stay in college or refuse to sign with the Jets. Plus that clown Stephen A Smith had a fifteen minute rant how lousy the Jets are and he should never sign with them. Down here in Orlando the sports anchors had  a debate about what TL should do two our of the three said he should not sign with the Jet and the other said wait a minute the Jets have three good young receivers now and they  have a mess of high picks in the draft and a ton of money to spent, and there is no reason why TL should not sign with the Jets.

This was my concern about Law pulling a Eli if he doesn't trust the organization to take care of him. Because of the market in NY, the other teams that may have struggled with QBs haven't taken the public bashing that the Jets have taken. We haven't done well with a QB since Law has been a live, his Dad probably wasn't alive the last time the team went to the SB, We've watched the team over years do a terrible job of keeping talent around QBs, It looked like we started tanking by week 4, and most of the media professionals and former athletes are telling him to avoid the Jets. I'm not worried about Law going back to school, I'm worried about how he view this organization after all this. 

Hopefully he comes in with the change the culture mindset and trust JD/New Coach. We don't see this level of media hype around a QB often, so he knows he can say no and no one would blame him. I'm happy with Fields, but I hope JD at least makes some moves early to make TL feel like we're heading in the right direction. Big splash at WR and the right coach, at least.  

 

[JetsandI]

Ironically, Eli went to the MetLife.

Edited November 15, 2020 by JetsandI

[INbengalfan]

I saw the thread from the home page and felt compelled to chime in.  We were in the exact same position this time last year.  Tua vs. Burrow.  Then once it became clear, the constant bashing from the media telling the prospect to pull an Eli.  Inept ownership.  In other words, identical situations.

 

1.  You still have Gase as HC, so the clear tank is on.  Bringing in an interim HC damages it because they are trying to prove they deserve the job, either there or elsewhere.  They win a game or two, the choice is gone.  

2.  Even as an OSU and Georgia fan (strange I know, but I grew up in Ohio, and became a UGA fan because Hershel Walker was on literally every week), I'm taking Trevor without blinking.  Fields has yet to show he can perform under pressure.  

3.  The whole build a team around a QB first argument.  Yeah, you can trade the pick, but if you really build the team first, you might not ever be in this position again at the top with an elite QB ripe for the taking.  Even with Lawrence, you will be rebuilding for two years, and can get elite players at other positions in subsequent drafts.  You also have a bunch of first rounders this year and next.  Keep the #1 and use the rest of them.  For our fans, the debate was Burrow or a ahul that Miami could have offered.  I'm glad we took Joe.  Had Joe been slightly less stellar, I would have absolutely traded the pick to the Dolphins if Tua finished the year as the #1 guy.

4.  Just ignore the media stuff about Lawrence pulling an Eli.  He has said literally nothing to indicate he is even considering it.  The most he's said is that he isn't 100% committed to declaring this year, which opened pandora's box for the media.  I stopped listening/watching ESPN for months after the college season ended up to the draft because that's all they talked about, except locally.  Burrow was basically a home grown talent, and him pulling an Eli was never in question unless you listened to the national talking heads too much.  

5.  For those saying that taking a #1 overall QB doesn't guarantee success, name the last guy rated this highly that failed.  Luck lived up to it.  Manning lived up it.  Aikman did too.  Lesser rated guys like Kyler Murray have done it too.  Before you throw out names like JaMarcus Russell and similar guys, there were plenty of questions surrounding them coming out if you read/listened closely enough.

Embrace the tank.  Know that it pays off down the road.

[Bobby816]

12 minutes ago, INbengalfan said:

I saw the thread from the home page and felt compelled to chime in.  We were in the exact same position this time last year.  Tua vs. Burrow.  Then once it became clear, the constant bashing from the media telling the prospect to pull an Eli.  Inept ownership.  In other words, identical situations.

 

1.  You still have Gase as HC, so the clear tank is on.  Bringing in an interim HC damages it because they are trying to prove they deserve the job, either there or elsewhere.  They win a game or two, the choice is gone.  

2.  Even as an OSU and Georgia fan (strange I know, but I grew up in Ohio, and became a UGA fan because Hershel Walker was on literally every week), I'm taking Trevor without blinking.  Fields has yet to show he can perform under pressure.  

3.  The whole build a team around a QB first argument.  Yeah, you can trade the pick, but if you really build the team first, you might not ever be in this position again at the top with an elite QB ripe for the taking.  Even with Lawrence, you will be rebuilding for two years, and can get elite players at other positions in subsequent drafts.  You also have a bunch of first rounders this year and next.  Keep the #1 and use the rest of them.  For our fans, the debate was Burrow or a ahul that Miami could have offered.  I'm glad we took Joe.  Had Joe been slightly less stellar, I would have absolutely traded the pick to the Dolphins if Tua finished the year as the #1 guy.

4.  Just ignore the media stuff about Lawrence pulling an Eli.  He has said literally nothing to indicate he is even considering it.  The most he's said is that he isn't 100% committed to declaring this year, which opened pandora's box for the media.  I stopped listening/watching ESPN for months after the college season ended up to the draft because that's all they talked about, except locally.  Burrow was basically a home grown talent, and him pulling an Eli was never in question unless you listened to the national talking heads too much.  

5.  For those saying that taking a #1 overall QB doesn't guarantee success, name the last guy rated this highly that failed.  Luck lived up to it.  Manning lived up it.  Aikman did too.  Lesser rated guys like Kyler Murray have done it too.  Before you throw out names like JaMarcus Russell and similar guys, there were plenty of questions surrounding them coming out if you read/listened closely enough.

Embrace the tank.  Know that it pays off down the road.

Great post. Agreed on all accounts. Although as I see TLaw as a once in a decade type prospect. I think I rate Fields higher than you. Any other year he’d be hands down the best prospect. For me if we are drafting 1st or 2nd. We have to choose TLaw if at 1 and Fields if at 2. If we are at 3 and the QBs go 1 and 2... then we stay with Darnold and then build other pieces.